17 replies to this topic

[Arctcwolf]

Per lore, it has already been around for decades, used by both clans and the Wolf's Dragoons.

It also is an example of how clan mechs CAN swap out engines. Base clan annihilators only move 35 kph...slow as a slug. Wolfs Dragoons ran them with bigger engines, upping speed to 54 kph.

Also, quad c-LB-10ac's...maybe convert some of those jagermech pilots who like to dakka over to something truly built for heavy ballistics.

[Asmosis]

planning on buying direwolf for that purpose, and the engine thing is a balancing act by PGI rather than a per lore thing so don't expect that to change on any clan mechs in the near future. Maybe when everyone is driving around in clan mechs and the balance issues between clan vs IS isn't as relevant it'll be relaxed.

[Savage Wolf]

Could just be a different center omnipod with different engine rating. Shouldn't be a problem. Would still only give them two engines to choose from.

[TibsVT]

Only problem is that it isn't an OmniMech and thusly will never be seen in MWO any time in the foreseeable future.

[Savage Wolf]

Wouldn't it then simply be a non-Omni clan mech? Using clan tech and non-Omni build rules?

[TibsVT]

Savage Wolf, on 26 August 2014 - 04:00 AM, said:

Wouldn't it then simply be a non-Omni clan mech? Using clan tech and non-Omni build rules?

It is a BattleMech. Having been reproduced with Clan weapons doesn't make it an OmniMech.

For all intents and purposes IS gets BattleMechs, Clans get OmniMechs. I wouldn't expect to see any Clan BattleMechs or IIC variants for a very long time if at all due to balancing issues.

Yes, this includes the Kodiak.

Edited by KelesK, 26 August 2014 - 04:09 AM.

[Savage Wolf]

KelesK, on 26 August 2014 - 04:08 AM, said:

It is a BattleMech. Having been reproduced with Clan weapons doesn't make it an OmniMech.

No, it would be a non-Omni clan mech. Like I said. When the Omni rules were introduced by the clans, they were introduced as omni build rules, not clan rules.

KelesK, on 26 August 2014 - 04:08 AM, said:

For all intents and purposes IS gets BattleMechs, Clans get OmniMechs. I wouldn't expect to see any Clan BattleMechs or IIC variants for a very long time if at all due to balancing issues.

Not sure I see any obvious balancing issues there, but there might be. But they will come eventually once the IS start making Omnimechs.

[TibsVT]

Savage Wolf, on 26 August 2014 - 04:26 AM, said:

No, it would be a non-Omni clan mech. Like I said. When the Omni rules were introduced by the clans, they were introduced as omni build rules, not clan rules.

Yes and a non-Omni is a BattleMech. Clan or otherwise.

Savage Wolf, on 26 August 2014 - 04:26 AM, said:

Not sure I see any obvious balancing issues there, but there might be. But they will come eventually once the IS start making Omnimechs.

Running BattleMechs with as many hardpoints as most have combined with better Clan tech would be catastrophic to the game's already tedious balance. Even once the IS catch up most of it is redundant beside the Clans'.

[Savage Wolf]

KelesK, on 26 August 2014 - 04:33 AM, said:

Yes and a non-Omni is a BattleMech. Clan or otherwise.

Yes and Battlemechs are non-Omni... I know. I got that to begin with.

KelesK, on 26 August 2014 - 04:33 AM, said:

Running BattleMechs with as many hardpoints as most have combined with better Clan tech would be catastrophic to the game's already tedious balance. Even once the IS catch up most of it is redundant beside the Clans'.

Hardpoints are the advantage of the omni rules, both in terms of numbers and especially in flexibility. The disadvantage is limited control of all critical slots and no control of engine size.
If you made a non-omni clan mech it would simply have swapped those two.

[Voivode]

Arctcwolf, on 26 August 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

Per lore, it has already been around for decades, used by both clans and the Wolf's Dragoons.

It also is an example of how clan mechs CAN swap out engines.

Eat a ****. Clan mechs have to have SOME disadvantage in this game or I've spent the last two years wasting my time and if that's the case, then I'm out. It seems PGI is betting money I'm not the only player that feels that way.

Edited by Voivode, 26 August 2014 - 04:50 AM.

[Savage Wolf]

Voivode, on 26 August 2014 - 04:48 AM, said:

Eat a ****. Clan mechs have to have SOME disadvantage in this game or I've spent the last two years wasting my time and if that's the case, then I'm out. It seems PGI is betting money I'm not the only player that feels that way.

Relax. It would mean they are not omni-mechs and while that does gives them the ability to swap engines, they lose all the other benefits of omni-mechs.

[Tesunie]

Is it just me, or isn't the Annihilator a non-omni design? That's also almost exclusively a Wolf Dragoon's mech (thus also considered an IS design)?

Though the design is clan, I don't believe it's actually considered to be a Clan Design, or at least not a design the clans tend to use at least. Also, only two variants I seem to see seem to use clan tech on it.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Annihilator

[TibsVT]

Savage Wolf, on 26 August 2014 - 04:45 AM, said:

Hardpoints are the advantage of the omni rules, both in terms of numbers and especially in flexibility. The disadvantage is limited control of all critical slots and no control of engine size.
If you made a non-omni clan mech it would simply have swapped those two.

Not to play devil's advocate on the long since debated omni pod situation but none of my Mechs are anything I would call versatile. I'm poorly and heavily restricted by what PGI says I can do with something I should be able to do nearly anything with. Adding BattleMechs with Clan tech is just a recipe for disaster that will render most if not all OmniMechs redundant. I don't even want to think of the disasters that would come of the Kodiak. While I don't doubt Clan BattleMechs will show up one day I don't think it will happen until the IS gets their Omni tech.

Voivode, on 26 August 2014 - 04:48 AM, said:

Eat a ****. Clan mechs have to have SOME disadvantage in this game or I've spent the last two years wasting my time and if that's the case, then I'm out. It seems PGI is betting money I'm not the only player that feels that way.

Another unintelligible comment that was completely unnecessary and uncalled for. If you think Clan Mechs are OP you should be reassessing how you play. Most people can't even pilot them without overheating.

[101011]

Clan Standard Battlemechs would single-handedly ruin the game. Take the Kodiak: all the advantages of a Spheroid 'Mech combined with all the advantages of a Clan weaponsbase. No locked engines, no locked armor, no locked structure, just simply better.

[Savage Wolf]

KelesK, on 26 August 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

Not to play devil's advocate on the long since debated omni pod situation but none of my Mechs are anything I would call versatile. I'm poorly and heavily restricted by what PGI says I can do with something I should be able to do nearly anything with. Adding BattleMechs with Clan tech is just a recipe for disaster that will render most if not all OmniMechs redundant. I don't even want to think of the disasters that would come of the Kodiak. While I don't doubt Clan BattleMechs will show up one day I don't think it will happen until the IS gets their Omni tech.

But you were talking about hardpoints! Hardpoints! Which is exactly where the clans are versatile. Not as versatile as they are in TT, but still more than IS is in MWO. And I also mentioned that the downside to this was limited control of critical slots.
But then I guess what you are trying to say is that the disadvantage is bigger than the advantage? Although if that is correct, then wouldn't IS omnis be inferior to non-omni IS mechs.

Personally I don't think the omni rules are better or worse than non-omni. They are just different. And depends much on the chassis and variants.

101011, on 26 August 2014 - 05:13 AM, said:

Clan Standard Battlemechs would single-handedly ruin the game. Take the Kodiak: all the advantages of a Spheroid 'Mech combined with all the advantages of a Clan weaponsbase. No locked engines, no locked armor, no locked structure, just simply better.

Armor isn't locked for omnis. Also non-omnis have locked hardpoints.

Edited by Savage Wolf, 26 August 2014 - 05:20 AM.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Thus far, PGI has only released the first 8 of the 16 listed Omni Mech's that appeared in the 3050 timeline of the Invasion.
- We still have these other 8 Mech's to be introduced.
- They range from lights to assaults and offer some interesting design quirks.

So before everyone goes 'bananas' on wanting there favorite Mech, we need the base Mech's brought in first.
- Items from 3049/3050 timeline only.

9erRed

[TibsVT]

Savage Wolf, on 26 August 2014 - 05:18 AM, said:

But you were talking about hardpoints! Hardpoints! Which is exactly where the clans are versatile. Not as versatile as they are in TT, but still more than IS is in MWO. And I also mentioned that the downside to this was limited control of critical slots.
But then I guess what you are trying to say is that the disadvantage is bigger than the advantage? Although if that is correct, then wouldn't IS omnis be inferior to non-omni IS mechs.

Personally I don't think the omni rules are better or worse than non-omni. They are just different. And depends much on the chassis and variants.


Armor isn't locked for omnis. Also while non-omnis have locked hardpoints.

The advantage any BattleMech with access to Clan tech has over the OmniMechs at present is huge. Prior to the Clan release I piloted a Catapult and an Atlas. For the sake of working with what is in front of us; my Atlas was the RS variant slightly modified. Imagine what I could do to that with lighter, smaller Clan components. The same problem exists the second you give any BattleMech access to Clan tech.

[Savage Wolf]

KelesK, on 26 August 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

The advantage any BattleMech with access to Clan tech has over the OmniMechs at present is huge. Prior to the Clan release I piloted a Catapult and an Atlas. For the sake of working with what is in front of us; my Atlas was the RS variant slightly modified. Imagine what I could do to that with lighter, smaller Clan components. The same problem exists the second you give any BattleMech access to Clan tech.

But that's a problem with clan technology! Anything with clan tech is better. That has nothing to do with omni-rules vs non-omni rules.
Unless somehow using non-omni rules you can utilize clan tech better than with omni rules. Can you build a better mech out of an Atlas using clan tech than you can build a Dire Wolf?

I have however thought of another reason why one should not make clan non-omni mechs and that is because of the feel. They feel different and that is great. Sadly IS Omnimechs will also ruin this.