67 replies to this topic

[waterfowl]

Let's say I start a match in a heavy assault medium, w/e. An enemy light runs up to me and NARCs me, then disappears. We have no ECM. I die from LRMs.

Where is the counterplay? There is literally nothing I can do except eat **** on my way to cover, which I won't make it to, because the other team has 200 LRM tubes.

Where's the god damn counterplay? The only reliable counterplay to LRMs is praying that you'll have ECM on your team. That or everyone drops in a DDC.

[Kilo 40]

you should always be close to cover. Narc or not.

If you're away from cover you dun goofed.

[waterfowl]

Kilo 40, on 26 August 2014 - 12:56 AM, said:

you should always be close to cover. Narc or not.

If you're away from cover you dun goofed.

if you're a fatass stalker following your team on an open map, near the spawn, there isn't always cover.

[Kilo 40]

waterfowl, on 26 August 2014 - 12:58 AM, said:

if you're a fatass stalker following your team on an open map, near the spawn, there isn't always cover.

communicate with your team. ask them to watch for lights carrying narc until you get to cover.

You're not going to find a way to always, no matter what, avoid narc, or any other weapon for that matter. There are always going to be situations, such as being a fatass stalker following your team on an open map, near the spawn, where there is no cover, where you're vulnerable. That's the nature of games.

[Monkey Lover]

Ecm light let you die. That is what really happen.

[Voidcrafter]

There's the twist:
Most of the people I meet on the forums say LRMs aint OP at all, especially in group plays, etc. etc. etc.
Still... both sides play under ECM and bring one to the fight
Weird stuff huh?

The way I see it - ECM was always way too optional complete counter to the LRMs but "something" to change requires way big effort from PGI and the community to admit and fix it.
Just sayin.
What I say doesn't make any sense?
Well... I really hope(which would never ever happen actually) for a no-ECM-weekend challenge and BOOM - there we'll have it - two/three days of grim revelations

[Budor]

No ECM, no cover and you are pretty much dead in the solo queue. Also dont forget UAVs, for some reason people in the solo queue rather get cored than look up and shoot them.

Edited by Budor, 26 August 2014 - 03:01 AM.

[Voidcrafter]

Budor, on 26 August 2014 - 03:01 AM, said:

No ECM, no cover and you are pretty much dead in the solo queue. Also dont forget UAVs, for some reason people in the solo queue rather get cored than look up and shoot them.

Correction:
No ECM is enough term --> to get killed in ANY queue.
Covers vary on the different maps, but if you get to the canyon, alpine peaks, caustic and in most cases - pretty much anything else... well... bad news for you
That's my point - if you cut the ECM, LRMs would become the greatest deal you should pay attention to if you have any desire to survive.
The way the indirect fire currently works the cover should be not "seems-to-be-good" but perfect, otherwise you're gonna get your scrap kicked so bad that even the top-100 engineers in the BT universe won't be able to put back together what would be left from your beloved killing machine even in 15 years.
That's the case if the LRM boat actually have the basic knowledge of the maps and how to possition itself to exploit it.

Edit: some dramatization additions.

Edited by Voidcrafter, 26 August 2014 - 03:24 AM.

[Kaspirikay]

LRMs cut off massive swafs of playable map area in this game.

[El Bandito]

waterfowl, on 26 August 2014 - 12:52 AM, said:

Let's say I start a match in a heavy assault medium, w/e. An enemy light runs up to me and NARCs me, then disappears. We have no ECM. I die from LRMs. Where is the counterplay? There is literally nothing I can do except eat **** on my way to cover, which I won't make it to, because the other team has 200 LRM tubes. Where's the god damn counterplay? The only reliable counterplay to LRMs is praying that you'll have ECM on your team. That or everyone drops in a DDC.

If by now you have not learned to GET THE **** OUTTA DODGE AND SEEK THE NEAREST COVER whenever a Light mech passes by, then you need to learn it. You are either NARCed, or there is a plume of red smoke rising near your feet.

I have been NARCed in many maps with my slow Assaults (ironically never in Caustic) and I survived 9 out of 10 instances due to the above knowledge.

This is just another case of adapt or die. There are counter-plays, but you need to act smart and act fast.

Kaspirikay, on 26 August 2014 - 03:47 AM, said:

LRMs cut off massive swafs of playable map area in this game.

So are long range FLD weapons.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 August 2014 - 04:30 AM.

[Kaspirikay]

El Bandito, on 26 August 2014 - 04:26 AM, said:

So are long range FLD weapons.

granted, we don't need more to contribute to the issue, though.

[Wolfways]

Voidcrafter, on 26 August 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

There's the twist:
Most of the people I meet on the forums say LRMs aint OP at all, especially in group plays, etc. etc. etc.
Still... both sides play under ECM and bring one to the fight
Weird stuff huh?

The way I see it - ECM was always way too optional complete counter to the LRMs but "something" to change requires way big effort from PGI and the community to admit and fix it.
Just sayin.
What I say doesn't make any sense?
Well... I really hope(which would never ever happen actually) for a no-ECM-weekend challenge and BOOM - there we'll have it - two/three days of grim revelations

I'd get to watch the people who need ECM as a crutch to survive die to LRM's even more. Wouldn't make any difference to me...other than my teams dying faster i suppose...

[MeiSooHaityu]

waterfowl, on 26 August 2014 - 12:52 AM, said:

Let's say I start a match in a heavy assault medium, w/e. An enemy light runs up to me and NARCs me, then disappears. We have no ECM. I die from LRMs.

Where is the counterplay? There is literally nothing I can do except eat **** on my way to cover, which I won't make it to, because the other team has 200 LRM tubes.

Where's the god damn counterplay? The only reliable counterplay to LRMs is praying that you'll have ECM on your team. That or everyone drops in a DDC.

Well, for one thing there is AMS as a counter "assist". It helps although I feel it should be a bit stronger in our current LRM environment.

The real truth of the matter is, that light that ran in an NARC'd you really stuck his neck out and took a risk in getting you NARC'd. If anything, he and his team should be rewarded (your unfortunate crippling or demise) for the risks he as a light pilot takes.

I suppose I don't really see the problem. Like others say, try and stay near cover if you can, stay with an ECM mech if possible, or see if a few mechs on your team are running AMS and stay near them. You could even run AMS yourself.

Overall, you were just a victim of a good and ballsy light pilot. A good player got the best of you.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Incidentally, ECM does more than just umbrella against LRMS, which is why it's so vital.

It also prevents people from piggybacking or even getting in the first place the target locks they need to know what part of the enemy 'mech is stripped of armor and ready to explode. If you haven't learned the hitboxes, ECM prevents you knowing what section of the 'mech you've just shot. Beyond all of that it also prevents you from finding out the weapons loadouts of the 'mechs under the ECM.

If ECM only provided LRM protection, it wouldn't be nearly as important as it currently is. It would still be much better than AMSes, but it wouldn't be as strong as it is currently.

[wanderer]

And again, since this apparently is a poorly known fact:

NARC is a missile (with 2 health).

Yes, AMS will destroy a NARC pod fired from outside 200m, and being with multiple AMS in the area/AMS range module/AMS overload module will narrow a NARC's ability to get through to an even smaller radius around your 'Mech.

Friendly ECM will also cancel NARC, of course- and it's a lesson that needs to be learned over and over.

Your team isn't packing AMS or ECM? Hope they at least brought lube, because collectively, they like being bent over.

If you are a fat, slow assault- you need escorts and a screen to keep this from happening. An exposed assault is not a battlefield juggernaut, it's a clumsy turret waiting to be smoked, NARCed, and peeled open from the back.

[Why Run]

This is bullshit. There is one map, RIVER CITY, that has a LRM spawn problem. ONE MAP. The rest of the problems are created by clueless noobs wandering off and running into some scouts. If you follow your team, even if you're slower, you will not get NARC spammed from the outset. Addtionally, almost all maps have cover, and plenty of it. Even Caustic Valley, the so called LRM map, has HORRIBLE LoS. If you're getting caught out there, you're not with your team. I'm so sick of all these cry babies. There is no other weapon system in the game that has an average 38% hit rate FOR WIDE OPEN SHOTS. You get a clear shot and lock, best case you get 4-5 points damage from every 10 missiles. BEST F'ING CASE.

[mogs01gt]

waterfowl, on 26 August 2014 - 12:52 AM, said:

Let's say I start a match in a heavy assault medium, w/e. An enemy light runs up to me and NARCs me, then disappears. We have no ECM. I die from LRMs. Where is the counterplay? There is literally nothing I can do except eat **** on my way to cover, which I won't make it to, because the other team has 200 LRM tubes.
Where's the god damn counterplay? The only reliable counterplay to LRMs is praying that you'll have ECM on your team. That or everyone drops in a DDC.

I'm confused. On pretty much every map except for one or two, your scenario is impossible. Where is your teammates at to help you destroy the light? Its PGI's fault for poor map design and poor spawn locations, that is not the fault of a weapon group. The only reason why you feel there are 200 LRM'ers is because of the Clan LRMs.

So your scenario has zero to do with the weapon group. Your issue is with spawn locations, lack of cover and poor teammates. How is LRMs any different than two ECM lights with ER laser stripping your back armor?


and stop using League of Legends counter play bullshit terminology. That is Riot's excuse for nerfing champs they cant make any money on.

Edited by mogs01gt, 26 August 2014 - 05:06 AM.

[John1352]

In my opinion, if you have an assault or heavy, for PUG games, and can't find the tonnage to fit an AMS + 1 ton ammo, you need to go back to the mechlab and try again. If you shoot down 50 missiles coming towards you (takes 150 if your 1000 ammo afaik), you've just saved yourself 55 points of armor. 55 points of armor weighs more than the AMS + ton of ammo. You'll also save your teammates some armor, if you are within range of them.

That's the current state of the game, IMO the majority of the LRM supports and counters are "hard". If you have ECM and the enemies don't have any NARC, tag or BAP, you're basically immune to LRMs.

On the other hand, if you have no counters (ECM, target deprivation or stacked AMS), vs enemies using NARC, tag, target decay bonus and sensor range, you are all going to die!

The NARC, ECM, Target deprivation are like on/off switches, either making LRMs extremely OP or totally useless. They should increase/reduce effectiveness, but not by so much.

[akhv]

Lrm boat driver speaking

For a new player lrm spamming is the easiest way to do big damage. But lately I guess my ELO grew enough to drop me into matches with bigger boys. And suddenly I found that I'm dealing almost no damage to enemy and that I'm usually one of the first to die. Staying far behind don't work, some clever enemy makes a sneak attack. Being near battle don't work, you're an easy prey. My Catapult a1 became almost useless, Kintaro can survive but isn't very helpful to my team. I guess it's time to change my tactics.

[Ultimax]

Kilo 40, on 26 August 2014 - 12:56 AM, said:

you should always be close to cover. Narc or not.

If you're away from cover you dun goofed.

Listen I'm not a LRM hater, but there are a lot of maps where not even most "standard" cover is actually cover from NARC.


There are a number of situations and maps where having a giant vertical wall handy is just not possible.

You have to move with the team, you can't huddle under one rock for 5 minutes - that doesn't win matches.



So in these instances, he's correct. You will get NARC'd and if you don't die you will likely be crippled for the rest of the match.



At the OP, I don't even know if it reliably works - but if there is at least something to hide behind I make a run for it and shut down for a bit. Doesn't work very well in slow mechs.