17 replies to this topic

[Lead Sponge]

First Session: TBD Based on Interest

As an extension of Stock Mech Mondays from Mech Force Classic, I'd like to offer a Sunday session that's timed for the evening for European players and early morning/early afternoon for U.S. players. The plan is to do solely Inner Sphere mechs from the 3025 era. These will be fation based fights where players will be assigned to a faction and required to use the mechs from their faction for the battle.

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Basic Structure: Each session is made up of a mini-campaign.
Mini-Campaign Structure
Each campaign is made up of five scenarios with a sixth tie-breaker battle. A team must score 5 victory points in order to take the planet. The campaign starts with the invasion phase. The campaign startes with an Assault scenario and finishes with an Assault scenario. The campaign follows the structure below. If for any reason, both sides are tied at the end of the campaign, there is a tie breaker scenario a called Commander (see below).

Battle Structure: Assault -> Conquest -> Skirmish -> Conquest -> Assault

Victory Points Awards:
- Destroy All Enemies: 1 VP
- Complete Objective: 2 VP*
- Time Out - Draw - 1 VP for each team.
- Tie Breaker - 5 VP

*Note: For Skirmish games, destroying all enemies is only worth 1 VP even though it is the mission objective.

Deployment
This is an honor system. Players are adults and should be expected to pick a legal mech set up. If anomalies show up, a player can challenge and if everyone agrees they are in violation, a vote can be called to kick them from the game.

Deployment Rules
- Each player gets 275 tons per campaign and five mech slots.
- If a mech has been destroyed in a previous battle, it may not be used again for the campaign.
- If a mech receives critical damage, it may not be deployed in the next combat round.
- If you do not have a functional mech, you cannot participate in the next battle.


Mech Rules
- Only Stock Mechs, no custom mechs.
- Player may only deploy mechs from their faction.
- No Clan Mechs
- No Hero Mechs
- No Champion Mechs (exceptions will be considered for new players)
- Disallowed Equipment: Do not use Mechs with AMS, Streaks, Pulse, ER, Double Heat Sinks, XL, Artemis, NARC, TAG, UAC, LBX, Gauss, ECM, Ferro-Fiberous Armor, or Endo-steel
- All Modules and Consumables are Permitted.

Tie Breaker Game - Commander
Each side gets a commander. The commander has a special mech. Hero mechs must be taken if possible. They represent unique mechs that remain from the Star League. A commander mech can have any equipment, and does not follow the rules for the campaign. The only rule is they can’t have clan mechs. Below is the priority order for command mech selection:

Command Mech
- Hero Mech
- Champion Mech
- Custom Mech

Rules for the Commander
Each side has a commander in Skirmish game mode. If the commander is killed, the leaderless side must surrender by shutting down their mechs. Players may elect to play out and fight the scenario, but victory goes to the side that killed the commander.

Victory Points
- Kiled Commander: 5 VPs

If you're interested please respond here so we can begin planning.

[Mister Zeus]

You know I'm in.

[Gaius Marcus]

I'll give it a go.

[RF Greywolf]

It looks like fun. There are two issues I see. The first is that it will require the players to have 5 stock mechs to play and only if all the stocks they have fit in one faction and under the combined 275 tons. It will just be hard to have newer players get into it. Second is that allowing consumables will basically allow for artillery flood which, while using stock mechs, will be disastrous. Many stock mechs just don't have enough armor or speed to be able to take that type of hit or get out of the way. I see the game devolving into everyone running lights with arty strikes and nothing else.

Sounds like fun and I would be more than willing to join in, just putting in my 2 cents for you.

[Malleus011]

Allow me to second Greywolf's points; consumables are probably a bad idea.

A number of the regular stock players have large collections of stock 'mechs, but I'd say most players have only 1-2 stock machines available; often a medium. It might be possible to do 'mech restrictions, but you'll be disqualifying a lot of pilots if they are too strict.

You'll need a fairly large list of 'all faction' mechs that anyone can drive; things like Hunchbacks, which are somewhat common in all factions. Griffins, Locusts, Shadow Hawks, etc - a list that's too restrictive will disqualify a lot of players.

Restricting 'mech usage is going to be really tough as well. You're asking every player to track the damage his 'mech took in the last match, and whether any went internal. That's a lot of extra book-keeping. It might be easier to have a 'drop deck' like the infamous Dropship Mode, where a given player can bring X 'mechs, but only use each one once.

I'd also suggest that certain classes of very common and/or cheap 'mechs ignore the 'use once' restriction; for example, if one has a Locust, you can just play that 4 times. This would allow new players with only a few stock 'mechs a chance to participate without having to collect a lot of machines.

It might also be best to allow 'infinite use' of faction 'mechs; that's even simpler for tracking. For example, a Davion player can use a Centurion in any drop; with no restrictions. If he wants to use a Vindicator, though, he only gets to use it once per 'turn'.

Just some suggestions; love the idea and I'd enjoy participating.

[Lead Sponge]

RF Greywolf, on 27 August 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

It looks like fun. There are two issues I see. The first is that it will require the players to have 5 stock mechs to play and only if all the stocks they have fit in one faction and under the combined 275 tons. It will just be hard to have newer players get into it. Second is that allowing consumables will basically allow for artillery flood which, while using stock mechs, will be disastrous. Many stock mechs just don't have enough armor or speed to be able to take that type of hit or get out of the way. I see the game devolving into everyone running lights with arty strikes and nothing else.

Sounds like fun and I would be more than willing to join in, just putting in my 2 cents for you.

Those are fair criticisms. I'd like to try it this way and see how it plays out. It can always be changed.

[Lead Sponge]

Malleus011, on 27 August 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

Allow me to second Greywolf's points; consumables are probably a bad idea.

A number of the regular stock players have large collections of stock 'mechs, but I'd say most players have only 1-2 stock machines available; often a medium. It might be possible to do 'mech restrictions, but you'll be disqualifying a lot of pilots if they are too strict.

You'll need a fairly large list of 'all faction' mechs that anyone can drive; things like Hunchbacks, which are somewhat common in all factions. Griffins, Locusts, Shadow Hawks, etc - a list that's too restrictive will disqualify a lot of players.

Restricting 'mech usage is going to be really tough as well. You're asking every player to track the damage his 'mech took in the last match, and whether any went internal. That's a lot of extra book-keeping. It might be easier to have a 'drop deck' like the infamous Dropship Mode, where a given player can bring X 'mechs, but only use each one once.

I'd also suggest that certain classes of very common and/or cheap 'mechs ignore the 'use once' restriction; for example, if one has a Locust, you can just play that 4 times. This would allow new players with only a few stock 'mechs a chance to participate without having to collect a lot of machines.

It might also be best to allow 'infinite use' of faction 'mechs; that's even simpler for tracking. For example, a Davion player can use a Centurion in any drop; with no restrictions. If he wants to use a Vindicator, though, he only gets to use it once per 'turn'.

Just some suggestions; love the idea and I'd enjoy participating.

I understand those concerns.

This is a test runl. So we'll see how it plays out. We can always make exceptions for new players. It's more to keep the min-maxers under control and create some cool tactical gameplay where you have to overcome limitations of your mechs.

It comes down to trying to get players to think about about their mechs and be careful. If you dedicate most of your tonnage to an Atlas, then you need to be careful with it. In the BT universe, mechs aren't something that people take huge risks with. It's like walking into battle with your family's livelihood. That's something people miss about the Battletech setting, most mechs are owned by families. Becoming the Dispossessed is basically destroys a noble family. The goal is to reflect that a bit.

As to governing player behavior. It's a game. Be an adult and follow the rules. Above all else, Don't be a ****.

Edited by Lead Sponge, 27 August 2014 - 06:08 AM.

[Snuglninja]

Have you thought about instead of stock mechs, let players customize their machines but only allow tech that is availible to the 3025 timeline?

[General Taskeen]

SnugIninja, Stock Mechs are best as they are. Customization just means someone is going to find the best min/max anyways even with 3025 Tech.

Stock Mechs (uncustomized) are balanced relative only to other Stock Mechs (per Era) from BattleTech with loadouts meant to be more 'realism'-esque - so instead of thinking of a way to min/max, strictly Stock games have players instead thinking about the advantages/disadvantages of any particular Stock Mech that already has a particularly defined role. The fast "Scouts" in Stock Form for instance are Spiders, Locusts, and Cicadas, where as Jenners and Ravens are slower Harassers filling slightly different roles.

Likewise other Mechs like Awesomes are powerful ammo-less bruisers for long-range combat, but with restricted close-range effectiveness, so they are best paired with a same speed Assault Mech that is geared for close range (I.E., the Atlas).

[Bishop Steiner]

General Taskeen, on 27 August 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

SnugIninja, Stock Mechs are best as they are. Customization just means someone is going to find the best min/max anyways even with 3025 Tech.

Stock Mechs (uncustomized) are balanced relative only to other Stock Mechs (per Era) from BattleTech with loadouts meant to be more 'realism'-esque - so instead of thinking of a way to min/max, strictly Stock games have players instead thinking about the advantages/disadvantages of any particular Stock Mech that already has a particularly defined role. The fast "Scouts" in Stock Form for instance are Spiders, Locusts, and Cicadas, where as Jenners and Ravens are slower Harassers filling slightly different roles.

Likewise other Mechs like Awesomes are powerful ammo-less bruisers for long-range combat, but with restricted close-range effectiveness, so they are best paired with a same speed Assault Mech that is geared for close range (I.E., the Atlas).

I think offering an occasional tech 1 customization day in the rotation would hardly "break" things. It's not like it would be the weekly norm. But I have noticed a drop off, perhaps a little variety, or even a tech 1 "run what ya brung" Custom tourney might get some attention?

[Sahoj]

A forum for a 'Custom Mech Approval' process could help. As Custom rigs are approved you could determine in said league that these 'approved' 'variants' had become more common.

I'm eager to join these Stock Mech scenarios but I feel like I'd be shoehorned into playing an energy-based mech because of insufficient stock ammo amounts.

If I could submit a custom HBK-4G (or whatever else) and say - remove a small laser and a half ton of armor for +1 ton of ammo to be approved for play beforehand I'd be plugging my headset in and rocking with you guys.

I'm wildly concerned about a wimpy two tons of ammo versus a playerbase that I fear will (naturally) gravitate towards chassis who come with more stock armor and low ammo dependency.

[xX PUG Xx]

I would be up for giving this a try, I liked the sound of the stock 'mech drops but wasn't available on the days /times it was being run. I will put word out amongst the Zulu6 pilots to see if anyone else is interested.

[Carl Avery]

I attend every existing Tech-1 stock event my schedule allows, and wish they happened more often, but I'm going to have to pass on this one. In addition to the two large problems mentioned by Greywolf & Malleus, there's another: this is just too unnecessarily complicated. We already have difficulties getting everyone to follow the relatively simple rulesets of SMM, and even more difficulty convincing new people to try it.

When we get twenty-four people together on SMM US, almost invariably, at least one of us accidentally fields a disqualified 'mech. This happens even with a simple ruleset and a comprehensive list of qualified 'mechs. By comparison, your ruleset is so complicated that I couldn't be bothered to finish reading it; I already concluded by the half-way point that it isn't going to work. There isn't much of a selling point for me, either; I'm happy with the way SMM works, so why would I want to quadruple the complexity of the ruleset, and add a few extra problems to the mix, for minimal gain?

As a result of these problems, I think that this event is likely to have a smaller player-base than the others. Since all of the current stock matches except for the Monday US one have an average player count of about 6 vs. 6, I suspect that "smaller" in this case might equate to "one or two players."

I'm genuinely sorry to have to approach this as such a wet blanket -- I appreciate what you're trying to do. But, I feel that being blunt about this is better than being silent. I really hope that you can re-work the ruleset sufficiently that all of the stock players can join in & enjoy it. At any rate, good luck!

Edited by Carl Avery, 28 August 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Sahoj, on 27 August 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

A forum for a 'Custom Mech Approval' process could help. As Custom rigs are approved you could determine in said league that these 'approved' 'variants' had become more common.

The one suggestion I would offer for an idea like this is to simply look through builds on Solaris7.com , since most of the "extra" builds on there were built for BT and/or MegaMek. The Custom ones that aren't "canon" have a "stock-like" flavor, per Era using build-rule sets. Example Hunchback (can built with 4P variant) and Example Centurion (can be built with AL variant)

In any case, its best with stock games to have an available list of what can and can not be used and simply try to enforce that list.

[Lead Sponge]

Okay. So It looks like there's a bit of interest. Let's get together and play tomorrow night at 1900 CET. I'll be on the server with premium time active.

[Conn Man]

This sounds great! I'll be there.

[Conn Man]

Going to be late (like an hour), but I'll be there.

[Lead Sponge]

I've been out of the loop because of a big move. I'd be interesed in getting this organized again. I'm fine cutting out everything but the fact that we're doing stock mechs.

Is anyone still interested?