29 replies to this topic

[TyphonCh]

EDIT....Oh boy I mispelled Gauss and can't fix it... *Prepares troll guard*

Who uses flamers.
Not even a question.
Really? They're a mockery of this game.
The Ember for example, basic loadout is 4 flamers, and 4 mg. Basically useless.
Why mount a 90m, low damage, 'support'... er, weapon, when you can mount a weapon with 3x the range, 5 dmg, and a not so significant heat decrease (Medium laser). They're meant to be a close range, f*ckupthenemyfrombehind weapon, but the difference they make is so menial it's not worth the tonnage. They tend to decrease your own cooling efficiency more than the enemies.
Unlike mg's, I don't think they have the crit chances because of the constant barrage of bullets you can put out. I mean it only puts out .08 damage... but at least it can crit with each shot. The flamer just spews out .7 damage... per.. what? Per flame? Per second? there's no way to tell.
Honestly the only use I've seen from them is obscuring the targets view. You may as well be blasting gas or smoke.
DISCLAIMER: I haven't done any research into the flamers actual crit chances. I'm going by personal experience. If it is the same as a MG, disregard the above paragraph. It still doesn't play like a MG.

I have an idea, one that will probably get eaten by the archive monster before it's noticed... But:

1) Reduce the tonnage. Make it 1/2 ton. At least its worth it if you have half a ton floating around.
2) The flamer could multiply their "Increase their targets heat" with the more flamers you have mounted. 1 flamer could cancel out 1 (or 1.5? multiply from there) heat sinks, 2 flamers - 2 (3) heat sinks, 3 flamers = 3 heat sinks? 4 flamers = 8 heat sinks? Right now 1 flamer feels like 4 flamers. And vice versa.
3) You could aslo make it a DOT, like a napalm of sorts. It can stick to the target and overheat it after you've run away, making it mounting it on a light mech worth it.
Discuss. I'm just trying to find a way to make this thing viable. Like I said before. Why mount a flamer when you can mount a medium laser.

I aslo put this topic under Feature Suggestions in the forum.

Edited by Team Chevy86, 28 August 2014 - 06:03 AM.

[John1352]

Flamers would have a role if everyone was spread out all over the map. You'd get two firestarters paired up, one with flamers, one with 7-8ML, you'd find a lone heavy or assault, run circles around it with flamers until it overheats by shooting, then the 8ML guy would come in for his free headshot.

However there is no reason to spread out like that, especially in a heavy mech. While flamers are weak, they are made totally useless by the nature of the game (deathball wins).

This means that the flamer mech is being fired at by eight of the overheating mech's teammates, and that will have a predictable outcome.

Edited by John1352, 28 August 2014 - 04:19 AM.

[TyphonCh]

John1352, on 28 August 2014 - 04:17 AM, said:

Flamers would have a role if everyone was spread out all over the map. You'd get two firestarters paired up, one with flamers, one with 7-8ML, you'd find a lone heavy or assault, run circles around it with flamers until it overheats by shooting, then the 8ML guy would come in for his free headshot.

But really. In reality. In this game. How often does this happen?
Never. That would require communication which we don't have except stopping everything and typing. *cough*voice chat*cough*

[PANZERKAT]

No one really used them in TT either and it would be a waste of dev time to do anything about it. No one enjoys being stun locked in heat from an opponent. If terrain could be set on fire, sure, but that won't be happening....ever.

Edited by KOMMISSAR KITTY, 28 August 2014 - 04:56 AM.

[InspectorG]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 28 August 2014 - 04:55 AM, said:

No one really used them in TT either and it would be a waste of dev time to do anything about it. No one enjoys being stun locked in heat from an opponent. If terrain could be set on fire, sure, but that won't be happening....ever.

Well, in TT they were useful vs infantry...if you played with them.
Destructible and flammable maps would be interesting but, yeah, never happening.

For this game, i would make them .5 ton/E version of the machinegun.

[FDJustin]

They've also been known to bug out, keep firing, even during shutdown, but not indicate that at all on the clients side. So they're actually more dangerous to you than they are your enemy.

[PANZERKAT]

InspectorG, on 28 August 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

Well, in TT they were useful vs infantry...if you played with them.
Destructible and flammable maps would be interesting but, yeah, never happening.

For this game, i would make them .5 ton/E version of the machinegun.

If they introduced a sort of "quirk slot" system to further customize our mechs, I don't see any mechs being flamer friendly. Introducing a large list of innate abilities you can buy and slot with a combination of General XP and C-Bills for training, underwhelming elements could become useful for certain pilots. Perhaps calling it "Advanced Training" or something along those lines.

[The Basilisk]

Flamers and MGs are no anti *Armored Vehicle* Weapons.
Initially they where added to the game for *completeness* to ease the minds of us Battletech TT nerds.
Then some dakka CS crybabys started screeming they need *usable* MGs --> MG Spider

At the moment Flamers are somewhat the Energy alternative for MGs they are deadly against unarmored Mech components.
Take a smal and fast mech with AC20, open some backs and pour flaming hot plasma in

*boooom*
Roasted Mechwarrior on boomstick.

[Widowmaker1981]

to be honest, the idea behind flamers is in my opinion horrible. make them good and tw*ts will run around the battlefield in wolfpacks shutting people down for the lols. In lore pilots hated mounting flamers anyway, and i dont think good flamers would make the game more fun, so im fine with them sucking. just dont use them.

[TyphonCh]

Even standing in the lava on terra therma your heat maxes at %90 so being 'stun locked' shouldn't be a problem. It's just another variable

[PANZERKAT]

Widowmaker1981, on 28 August 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

to be honest, the idea behind flamers is in my opinion horrible. make them good and tw*ts will run around the battlefield in wolfpacks shutting people down for the lols. In lore pilots hated mounting flamers anyway, and i dont think good flamers would make the game more fun, so im fine with them sucking. just dont use them.

In a universe where honour still exists amongst most of the units of the IS, roasting your fellow human being PROBABLY isn't high on the list. Well, for rival mechwarriors that is. Ground infantry are ants to be squashed!

[Widowmaker1981]

Team Chevy86, on 28 August 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

Even standing in the lava on terra therma your heat maxes at %90 so being 'stun locked' shouldn't be a problem. It's just another variable

the difference there is its your choice/mistake if you're in the lava. It is where it is, it doesn't run around in packs of 4 moving at 150kph

not to mention that energy is already hard enough off compared to ballistics, it doesn't need another nerf, which good flamers would be - heats at 90% and youve got twin gauss or AC5s? you dont care. heats at 90% and you're an energy boat? might as well have no guns.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 28 August 2014 - 05:22 AM.

[PANZERKAT]

People roar about screen shake locks from missiles. I imagine it would be 1000 times louder if flamers were viable and used to great success. The game doesn't benefit from the weapon.

[TyphonCh]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 28 August 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

People roar about screen shake locks from missiles. I imagine it would be 1000 times louder if flamers were viable and used to great success. The game doesn't benefit from the weapon.

So the weapon should be removed from the game entirely? Either its OP or not. I'm sure they can find a use for it

[Widowmaker1981]

Team Chevy86, on 28 August 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

So the weapon should be removed from the game entirely? Either its OP or not. I'm sure they can find a use for it

Yeah, pretty much.

The only logical way flamers work is to prevent other people from playing, basically. Thats not a fun mechanic for an FPS, which is why you don't get CC weapons in FPS games.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 28 August 2014 - 05:33 AM.

[Blakkstar]

So don't mount flamers. Nobody is forcing you to (unless you're in an Adder).

It will get real interesting if PGI decides to put Inferno SRMs into the game.

[PANZERKAT]

You won't ever see inferno rounds for the reasons already stated about flamers being a troll grief weapon and no place in a fps.

[Andross Deverow]

The only way flamers would be of any use to me would be if they did have the DoT effect. Spray the superheated plasma onto a mech and it continues to burn for 5 seconds or so adding heat. This could be stackable.

I guess the only problem with this would be the inevitable (troll factor). Players would be running aroundkeeping others shut down from heat or whatnot. Unless like mentioned previously cap the heat gained from outside sources at 90%.

Regards

[Blakkstar]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 28 August 2014 - 05:37 AM, said:

You won't ever see inferno rounds for the reasons already stated about flamers being a troll grief weapon and no place in a fps.

Which in and of itself is absurd. Heat management has always been central to Battletech/Mechwarrior. Shutting down other mechs isn't "trolling", it's using a game mechanic to gain an advantage.

TT rules limit the effect to 1 active Inferno precisely to combat the other concerns about being able to perma-shutdown Mechs with them alone.

Edited by Blakkstar, 28 August 2014 - 05:46 AM.

[Andross Deverow]

Blakkstar, on 28 August 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

Which in and of itself is absurd. Heat management has always been central to Battletech/Mechwarrior. Shutting down other mechs isn't "trolling", it's using a game mechanic to gain an advantage.

TT rules limit the effect to 1 active Inferno precisely to combat the other concerns about being able to perma-shutdown Mechs with them alone.

In which case the heat gained from outside sources would be capped, but...... Trust me it would be a trollable issue though. You know it and we all know it people will troll if they can. You know to whom I am referring.... All those 40+ year old teenagers still living in thier moms basement would revel in the chance to circle around an enemy keeping thier heat at 90% so they couldnt do anything other than wait for the enemy team to tear him/her to pieces.

Regards