24 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

Mizeur, on 30 August 2014 - 02:02 AM, said:

Even with the Public Test changes, they're still flat out superior and worth the cost.

I.S. meta is better than it was since Ballistics+PPCs are now joined by AC20+MLs, lasers+SRMs, ER Large Lasers, and lights. With niche usefulness for dual AC20s, dual gauss, and LRMs+spotters. But most builds rely on an XL engine to get enough firepower. And they're still slower than their Clan counterparts and at least twice as fragile. There really isn't anything overpowered in the Inner Sphere arsenal right now.

Just about any Clan build is viable and several are overpowered. There are a lot of ways to put together 40-80 point alphas while still being able to hit at or near the Inner Sphere's max range. Plus the durability advantages. Plus the speed advantages on 5 of the 8 mechs.

4 out of 8 mechs. A Warhawk's 64.8 kph is easily outdone by an 85 ton Battlemaster, the 90 ton Heavy Metal or 95 ton Banshee. Of course a Banshee outdoes a Dire Wolf even with a standard engine and pinpoint front loaded damage. Seriously take 3 AC/5s and 2 PPCs and freely one-shot a Dire Wolf, and even if you can't make it for the head your 3 AC/5s and 2 PPCs will outdo 6 UAC/5s in a straight up one on one fight with incredible ease. Just aim for the CT.

Now, if you find the Clan XL engines to be an advantage, then consider either one of two things.

1) On the assaults, the Nova, the Timber Wolf, and the Summoner (that's 5 out of 8 mechs) each of their STs are larger than an Awesome's CT.

Imagine a mech who has not one but two broadsides of a barn. Sure, the non-assaults have weirdly shaped ones (the Timber Wolf STs are L-shaped vertically along the center torso with the long end going toward the nose, as well as L shaped in that from the start of the arm to the 'phallus' is connected by right angles that help it to 'catch' fire in such a way that is bad for it), but seriously these things are walking with an Awesome's CT strapped to each of their sides and not even the courtesy of having that much armor. They make up for it by shifting unrealistic amounts of rear armor to the front, causing their difficult to kill nature when otherwise they would be so awful.

On a Nova, the ST includes the entire shoulder assembly which is where the legs would mount if it was a proper Nova. In the Nova's case it actually comes to just barely same surface area as an Awesome front CT per side torso when you slap on the MGs. On mechs where this applies it also includes launchers, weapons attached, etc.

A Timber Wolf's side front torso hitbox is not only larger than an Awesome's front CT hitbox, the total surface area when you have LRM-20s on the shoulders and SRM-6s as well with both Timber Wolf S side torsos could also cover an entire Catapult's front side. I'm quite serious, it's that freaking big and the rear side torsos are that freaking small. (Of their 'visual' center torso, only the nose cone and the top half counts as CT, everything else all along the body from shoulder mounts to launchers to along the sides right up to the dome of the nose is all side torso. If it was an Inner Sphere mech you'd be complaining how useless the mech is with XL engines, meanwhile it's CT is fairly tiny, but LRMs love their CT since it encompasses the entire top part of their body short of the missile pod space!)

2) You're fighting them like IS mechs. Want to deal with an IS mech? Aim for the ST and it dies or is severely weakened.

Fight them like Clan mechs and you will find them incredibly easy to kill.
Don't aim for the ST if you find that too time consuming.
Aim for the CT right off the bat and if they twist shoot the nuts.
Not good enough?
On the assaults aim for the arms then the CT.
On the faster but deadlier ones such as Timber Wolves and Stormcrows, aim for the legs. Easy to destroy, they have damaged it plenty on their own and best of all you can hit them no matter which way they are facing.
Got an issue with a Nova? Leg or arm, but honestly STs are easy on them.
Though the fastest way to kill any Clan mech is by the head, and since their cockpits are so much larger than IS cockpit hitboxes it's incredibly easy. (Don't bother cockpiting a stormcrow, the way it bounces makes it impossible).

They are push overs. Walking to sprinting coffins. The only one that isn't easy to deal with is the Stormcrow if you have a laser only build, this is due to animations and that "bounce" it has in its step that will spread a beam aimed around the cockpit across 5 different body parts (I'm not kidding or exaggerating, it will spread a Clan ER Large Laser across 5 different body sections).

Even the 2 ER PPC + Gauss Timber Wolf is a joke now.

The only issue in fighting Clan mechs issue is heat. The typical Inner Sphere "zomg alpha strike" build actually does not work very well against Clan mechs. Too slow to refire and too hot. Endurance builds. To fight a Clan mech your Inner Sphere mech must be able to fight like them. I run endurance builds. Builds where I can keep firing for at least a minute non-stop on Terra Therma. If you can do that, you can kill anything with ease. After all once you stop moving a Clan mech will butcher you. Overheat you're dead. Slow down you're dead. Let them focus you and you're dead.

An example of an endurance build in two different time periods.
Skip to 6:30 (the first match is mostly a really lengthy Battlegrid commanding tutorial, the second match puts what is taught into practice by both commanding and leading the charge on the front line, rushing every enemy head on.)

Skip to 5 minutes (if you're strapped for time, as the start is hunting for something and funny commentary poking at the new UI [both praise and criticism] from MkMHppy who is always a blast to play with as well as swapping quips about bad things done with the graphics.)


My Quickdraw hero which I named "Adrenaline" is also an endurance build but it's pretty slow so it's more rapid clean-up crew.

This mech -- which sadly my aim sucked in this vid due to my mousing surface -- is another prime endurance build. Even heated up from the medium to longer range fire, it will perform very well in close combat and will even cool off during constant close range combat while still putting down good damage, allowing it to resume medium to long range combat without any pauses.


Of course... for players who just can't have any luck at all, then try this. NARC + constant LRMs. Trust me, it sucks so bad.

To be on the receiving end.

(Some edits to clarify things. Should be the last one.)

Edited by Koniving, 30 August 2014 - 11:41 AM.

[Krysic]

No Mech prices are Justified and people have been telling PGI this forever. Rather than putting consumed purchases in the game at a low rate they went with this ugly (Mech based) Macro transaction model and ignored the evidence to the contrary (re: stupid numbers of Micro transaction games bringing in half a million / day). Honestly paying more for a clan mech doesn't make sense so the OP is right.

[Sean von Steinike]

As long as people keep ponying up the money for them, I suppose they are justified. I'd much rather have lower prices across the board and would be more likely to part with some cash if things were more reasonable.

[Xtrekker]

Sandpit, on 30 August 2014 - 12:05 AM, said:

someone always wants something. There were founders running around screaming for something special for the PP because they were "here first". There'd be QQ I'm sure.

Ah Sandpit, please don't slip back into your pre-ban self. It's been so nice around here without it.

As far as MC, I think PGI already knows they priced everything too high, and they know what a mess it would be if they lowered prices after the fact. It's my opinion that this is why we are suddenly seeing all these 50% sales. It's the only option they have that doesn't put them in another awkward situation with their customer base.

[A Man In A Can]

MoonUnitBeta, on 29 August 2014 - 11:51 PM, said:

Do you still think that the high prices of clan mechs is justified at all? You literally are paying more for... what exactly?

What price are we talking about here? C-bill, MC or both?

If you are wondering about the C-bill prices, I've done the math. With raw prices of equipment comparable to IS, and even using practically the same formula except for having to count Omnipods, they really are expensive toys.

If you are talking about the MC prices, the Clan mechs use the same pricing formula PGI has been using for the standard IS mechs since the beginning. 2500 c-bills for 1 MC.

Whether you think they are worth their price tag, is completely up to you. As for me, I see justification in their prices so far.

The only time I have called them out on their prices is when they had major accounting errors for the Nova S and Summoner variants, but they have since fixed those.

Edited by Mechwarrior Mousse, 03 October 2014 - 11:01 PM.