68 replies to this topic

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Mismanagement

Who makes UI's that can't take the planned editions to then remake a new UI (wasting time)

The game is designed as a cash cow; IGP needs the funds with MWtactics looking as tho its on life support.

All thet want is your money; weather they pressure PGI to focus on obtaining that money above all else is another question

[Tombstoner]

DV McKenna, on 03 September 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

Mismanagement

Who makes UI's that can't take the planned editions to then remake a new UI (wasting time)

The game is designed as a cash cow; IGP needs the funds with MWtactics looking as tho its on life support.

All thet want is your money; weather they pressure PGI to focus on obtaining that money above all else is another question

If MWtactics had mechs that looked like 2D vertions of MWO i would ba very happy. as it its they blow. mech creation is an abomination. its all about the boster packs. Its a great lesson to learn about making free to play games.... make a great game give it away for free and sell content for it. content like uniuqe skins. beter yet maps senarieos.

MWtatics should have been able to simulat the BT TT meta game we are all dieing for.

[Sandpit]

DaZur, on 03 September 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

While I agree PGI does not and quite honestly has never properly read the pulse of it's player base... They are garnering their decision-tree logic from somewhere. Absolutely... they seem to pull stuff from their arse but I assure you they derived it from somewhere / someone. That said, we can argue all day over the reliability and self-serving inferences drawn from them but at the end of the day.

In short... PGI is listening to the intelligentsia and not the player base. whether we like it or agree with their conclusions... They are listening to someone in regards to what direction to take MW:O.

I absolutely agree, hence why it seems like they're pulling stuff from where the sun don't shine (and no I don't mean under their pillows). They constantly shift their 'target audience" which leads to drastic game design changes and changes in the philosophy of the company itself.

They're not trying to be all things to all people, they're trying to be one thing for one audience. The problem is they keep changing who they want that one audience to be so over the course of 3 years the "target" has changed several times

Tombstoner, on 03 September 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

MWtatics should have been able to simulat the BT TT meta game we are all dieing for.

you've had that for years
http://www.mekwars.org/

(decades actually)

[Koniving]

Galen Crayn, on 03 September 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

It is now one year that PGI told us that Community Warefare isnt ready as promised. In one year we have no new map, no CW, only Clan Mechs... How long will it take to get what we were promised for autumn 2013? Another year? What is PGI doing all the time? Unbelievable...

As cynical as I am about PGI... (my god the balancing incompetence...)

I am unfortunately obliged to play white knight here (and I do so begrudgingly).

We have the first stage of CW. Yes... it isn't much. A bug ridden faction unit creation kit and a Star Control-esque star map (Reference for those who don't know) from which a MERC unit can jump from planet to planet on the periphery (which are almost impossible to find but cleverly hidden, there is even a Planet Piranha hidden on the outside of the map, as well as the Pentagon planets of Strana Mechty [and yes I know I probably spelled that wrong].)

I personally am residing on St. Ives until Zhizhu is ready to depart into the Periphery, because well.. Chinese/Russian women. They might not look quite as nice as women in the Draconis Combine, but they are certainly known to wear less before entering an 8 meter tall walking coffin (ahem, I mean battlemech!)


We also have a new map, which of BOTH iterations I've seen on the public test was not only not ready for public consumption but lets just leave it at I've done better maps at 14 years old in the Unreal 1.5 engine.

Spoiler

(For comparison)




And that's on a computer with dial up and less than 256 megabytes of ram. (Even fully functioning security systems with hackable cameras; admittedly I just built the level and linked all the stuff together from AI patrols to terminals with cameras and drones and bots and a conversation script, nothing more.)

Also, after all these years none of those yahoo identities actually work so there isnt' a point in greying them out.

So we do have the start of both within a year of...well last time.

Edited by Koniving, 03 September 2014 - 12:13 PM.

[Training Instructor]

PGIs biggest enemy at this point is its already limited playerbase finding girlfriends and careers.

Once that happens, they're toast.

[TKSax]

DaZur, on 03 September 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

While I agree PGI does not and quite honestly has never properly read the pulse of it's player base... They are garnering their decision-tree logic from somewhere. Absolutely... they seem to pull stuff from their arse but I assure you they derived it from somewhere / someone. That said, we can argue all day over the reliability and self-serving inferences drawn from them but at the end of the day.

In short... PGI is listening to the intelligentsia and not the player base. whether we like it or agree with their conclusions... They are listening to someone in regards to what direction to take MW:O.


I sorry but that is a pile of butt hurt drivel... It's a simple case of buyers remorse. Absolutely, Founders packages pale in contrast to later package deals... But that's the nature of the beast. Hindsight is the word of the day... Any early adopter has felt the pang of realizing at a later date they could have got a better deal and it nothing new, be it MW:O, the latest smart phone or that pair of new underwear in your drawer that still has that flipping annoying tag sewn into the waistband.

Except they guy who wrote the post did not buy a founder pack at all..

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Galen Crayn, on 03 September 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

It is now one year that PGI told us that Community Warefare isnt ready as promised. In one year we have no new map, no CW, only Clan Mechs... How long will it take to get what we were promised for autumn 2013? Another year? What is PGI doing all the time? Unbelievable...

Actually, it's been 3 years for those of us who've been involved since closed beta...

SO yeah, there's that.

[DaZur]

Sandpit, on 03 September 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

I absolutely agree, hence why it seems like they're pulling stuff from where the sun don't shine (and no I don't mean under their pillows). They constantly shift their 'target audience" which leads to drastic game design changes and changes in the philosophy of the company itself.

Now in fairness... Any profit entity will shift their focus dependent upon the needs of their customer base (perceived or otherwise)... This is functional demand elasticity. Mind you I think they are being fed bull by some myopic data miner but what PGI is doing is logical... even if it makes no sense.

TKSax, on 03 September 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

Except they guy who wrote the post did not buy a founder pack at all..

Understood... That said, you cannot read his diatribe without drawing the conclusion that he's simply parroting the complaints voiced by Founder or Founders who are suffering from buyers remorse. Believe me... I know the feeling. Actually doubly so... Not only am I a Founder but the mech I picked (Fatlas) I can't pilot out of a wet paper bag and it's collecting dust in the back of my mech bay!

Talk about feeling screwed.

Edited by DaZur, 03 September 2014 - 01:00 PM.

[Sandpit]

DaZur, on 03 September 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

Now in fairness... Any profit entity will shift their focus dependent upon the needs of their customer base (perceived or otherwise)... This is functional demand elasticity. Mind you I think they are being fed bull by some myopic data miner but what PGI is doing is logical... even if it makes no sense.

negatory big dog,

here's why. See the chaotic and dysfunctional disconnect between PGi and it's playerbase? That's one of the reasons why. Sure companies do what your'e talking about. there's a difference though.

SUCCESSFUL companies do this by ADDING features and functions to capture and retain news demographics. Companies that don't know what they're doing or, at the very least, have a clear defined idea of what they want something like this game ot be, constantly shift their entire philosophy and game design abandoning those previous target demographics. That's how you wind up with a directionless game that can't figure out if it wants to be an e-sport, what was originally advertised, an amalgamation, etc. that's how you wind up with relatively simple things like lobbies, campaigns, etc. taking 3+ years to develop.

You don't see other successful games completely abandoning their original and core audience in favor of the flavor of the month. They don't completely alter and change the direction of the game every time some new audience pops up. That's a management and leadership issue.

[Bacl]

I said it before and i will say it again. PGI need to go bankrupt, sell the rights and all the content, backups, servers and everything related to the game ( dont forget the art team!) to another studio and MAYBE MWO will be saved.... MAYBE.

[TLBFestus]

DaZur, on 03 September 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

Here's the reality... PGI is guilty of unrealistic lofty expectations, arrogance fostered by a same/similar CB player base that actually found humor in their snarky commentary (initially), and a waffling player base. PGI had delusions of grandeur... plain and simple. Couple that with mis-management of community representation and a lot of misplaced hubris...

Problem is PGI has done little to rectify the situation. Absolutely, a handful of PGI reps have managed to salvage some semblance of genuine community involvement and the game does seem to be taking steps in the right direction (in fits and starts)... That said, too much water has passed under the bridge and too many professional trolls continue to make it their mission to remind the player-base what slack-jawed buffoons PGI is (I do not agree with this inference only reference it).

And let's be honest... this community is its own worst enemy. It's vacillated between wanting to be a full-blown MMO and a glorified FPS for two years now driven largely by the large competitive groups and the neck-beard Grognards....

​MW:O sadly has no more "identity" and "propose" than the day I joined CB... It continues to attempt to "find itself" with wild swings of the balance pendulum and marginalization of CW.

Everyone wants to point fingers and blame PGI specifically for everything... Which they are surely culpable for without a doubt, That said, the community would do well the take a look in the mirror and qualify if their overarching demands made over the past 2 years best served the community as a whole or their own personal myopic desires...

Sorry but I'm not buying what you are selling.

PGI is overwhelmingly responsible for everything that happens with this game. It's their choices and decisions, whether based on community outcry or community participation that have produced the game we have, and the environment on the forums.

It's along the lines of the phrase, "Other people can't make you angry, only you can let other people make you angry"

PGI created this, it's up to them to fix it. If I, or others are critical of them while they do it, it's only fair trade for the disappointment/frustration that they had sown in the past.

[Postumus]

Dark Jackal, on 03 September 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

While the endless weapon balancing never appears to be "done", some other important items like normal Inner Sphere ER-LL is not around and instead we're still going through balancing Clan ER-LL compared to regular IS LL. So will IS-ER-LL also receive the terrible 3 second click-hold fiesta? It remains to be seen, re-seen, or just plain un-seen.

Wait, what? I've been using IS ER-LL since closed beta, I must have missed the memo on that.

As for community warfare, the bare bones of planetary conquest is something that an undergraduate computer science major could put together in a couple months. The map is dirt simple, thats just some graphics with a data structure underneath to keep track of conquest percentages and borders. The actual conquering part could have been as simple (for a first implementation) as selecting a planet, matching teams based on their chosen faction (which has been in game forever), and adding the outcome to the conquest bar. It might be half assed, but its more than we have now, and theres no reason something like that couldn't have shipped with beta years ago.

[Mawai]

DaZur, on 03 September 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

Now in fairness... Any profit entity will shift their focus dependent upon the needs of their customer base (perceived or otherwise)... This is functional demand elasticity. Mind you I think they are being fed bull by some myopic data miner but what PGI is doing is logical... even if it makes no sense.


Understood... That said, you cannot read his diatribe without drawing the conclusion that he's simply parroting the complaints voiced by Founder or Founders who are suffering from buyers remorse. Believe me... I know the feeling. Actually doubly so... Not only am I a Founder but the mech I picked (Fatlas) I can't pilot out of a wet paper bag and it's collecting dust in the back of my mech bay!

Talk about feeling screwed.

I have to admit that I have never felt buyers remorse of felt disappointed or let down by buying a Founder's pack. It was a purchase made to support a franchise that I have enjoyed over the years on both TT and the computer from the first MW game through MW4 and various other iterations. I received everything that I paid for (except maybe the published credits ... I haven't seen that posted anywhere).

I looked at the game, bought in, played in closed beta and enjoy it. In my opinion it could be far far more than it currently is and I don't understand how even a small development house like PGI can be so unproductive over a period of 3 years in terms of game features, bug fixes, code upgrades and other items. I have seen how Karl Berg (as one developer who completely rewrote the matchmaker in a period of weeks and actually produced code that worked and overcame many of the queuing issues expected by introducing release valves) could be extremely productive. The only conclusion I can reach is that they actually only have one or two developers working on game features at all.

So no buyers remorse ... but significant disappointment that PGI has not capitalized on the potential of the franchise and concern that they may actually ultimately fail because of it.

[Xtrekker]

PGI is simply the kid that chose to eat the pudding before eating the meat.

If you don't eat your meat, how can you have any pudding? Apparently the answer is golden mechs. Profit before function, with no incentive to beef up content/core once they have already gleaned any promise-based reward from it.

[Pyrrho]

Koniving, on 03 September 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

We also have a new map, which of BOTH iterations I've seen on the public test was not only not ready for public consumption but lets just leave it at I've done better maps at 14 years old in the Unreal 1.5 engine.

Spoiler

(For comparison)




And that's on a computer with dial up and less than 256 megabytes of ram. (Even fully functioning security systems with hackable cameras; admittedly I just built the level and linked all the stuff together from AI patrols to terminals with cameras and drones and bots and a conversation script, nothing more.)

Also, after all these years none of those yahoo identities actually work so there isnt' a point in greying them out.

Shinra HQ?! Now that would be a fun CTF game. Go to the library! Check this locker! Your keycard only goes to level 48!

[Tezcatli]

I honestly blame their choice of game engine. They should have chosen something they were more familiar with and that could be more easily adapted to their needs. Instead of something with high end graphics, which they had to scale back anyway.

[Sandpit]

Tezcatli, on 03 September 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

I honestly blame their choice of game engine. They should have chosen something they were more familiar with and that could be more easily adapted to their needs. Instead of something with high end graphics, which they had to scale back anyway.

I think that's also a big factor.

[Koniving]

Pyrrho, on 03 September 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

Shinra HQ?! Now that would be a fun CTF game. Go to the library! Check this locker! Your keycard only goes to level 48!

Heh.

Oh the intention was an FF 7 sequel (long before AC was ever mentioned or even hinted at) which could be played from a first person perspective, with a number of Deus Ex style elements (oh the fun fact that they did their own Deus Ex game eventually, heh).

There was quite a few ideas. Because of the sheer power of the conversation system I could make virtually anything I want happen with flags and other things. So I could, in theory, have a contingency for any character who 'died' and wasn't resurrected with a Phoenix Down or hospital in time (yay carrying bodies!). I really would talk for hours about this, but sadly I abandoned it ages ago. Instead, I'll throw just 'some' of the remnants from it.

Spoiler

Test conversation script.

Spoiler

Storyboard Conversation scripts examples.

Spoiler

---------



Remember the soup guy from Seignfeld? I put him in here as the Supply guy.

Many characters and other things.

Spoiler

The red uniformed guys.


Barret after working with his muscles. Sadly this turned out to be too high of a poly count for the game to handle.

Early work with the Magic Pot, which sometimes I wonder if PGI might have one of these in the office.


Proud Clod upgrades.


The weapons were based quite a bit on MechCommander 2's graphics for weapon systems. The large one is a PPC, the other is a flamer.



An experiment with trying to get an anime-like shading. Remember this is 2000 through 2004, not only was I really young but cell shading graphics was just starting to exist but didn't start until quite late into this.


An experiment.


Communication is essential!
Shinra Security Soldiers (Japanese name, English name is Shinra MP or Military Police) will call for support when they find intruders.


Disguises!

Lots of original gun designs.


I did say original designs. Reloaded by the cylinder inserted in the front.


Helicopters.


Original characters.

Other character stuffs.

Spoiler

The laser turrets. Made it so that they could pop out of walls, floors and ceilings.

My first original monster of sorts.





Concept example.




One of 12 Mighty Grunt variants.


A modified Carry Armor.


After hearing about Chobits as a kid and PersoComs but haven't seen the show for years after, I made a PersoCom for Rufus.

Chest opens for a terminal (not implemented at the time of this shot). Weapon in the palm of the mechanical arm. As agile as a Grunt. For a modern day's comparison of how I intended for "Grunts" to move, the game RAGE captures it perfectly with its bandit freaks.

My first original machina.



A botched antique machina in the possession of a collector.


Another Mighty Grunt (sans armor) variant.


The Hundred Gunner.


The Dragon Rider. I have a newer image but due to a hand gesture I can't put it here.


Various.

Cloud.


An original character.


Dark Nation.


Kotch as in Scotch and Kotch (Corneo lackeys).


Bastion. (Yes he was meant to be a tie-in to Dyne, Marlene and Barret.)

Proud Clod's first iteration.


Obligatory Mr. Dolphin reference.

Donated concept art and scene concepts.

Spoiler

Barret / Dyne.


Cloud, Rufus, Dark Nation.


From helicopter.




Diamond Weapon.


Zoomed out.


Costa del Sol map.


Scarlet and Heidegger by J3nov4 (Apes) (Donated.)


My attempt at Scarlet as designed by the donated art. Unfortunately I abandoned it. I'm awful at hair.

A girl for Red.






One of Rufus's new guard animals.


The other.


As part of the fleshing out of all the monsters as living species within the world (that you can encounter both in battle and sneak by), I wound up making the Garuda into a far more complicated species. This was a first drawing of the Garuda Queen.

Crimson, Apes/J3nov4's own donated creation.

Aeons.

Spoiler

Ifrit's rage.


One of the 13 Knights of the Round.

Early monsters...

Spoiler

This animal had everything it needed to eat, drink, follow a number of behaviors and a number of idle animations which included smelling the ground followed by sneezing.

Yin Yang.




Iron Giant.


War Thunder (bird). Skeleton.


Model.


I've got over a hundred of these...

Mimicking animations.


Remastered in 2013/2014.


Another side project, unrelated to FF.

[Sarlic]

DaZur, on 03 September 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

Now in fairness... Any profit entity will shift their focus dependent upon the needs of their customer base (perceived or otherwise)... This is functional demand elasticity. Mind you I think they are being fed bull by some myopic data miner but what PGI is doing is logical... even if it makes no sense.


Understood... That said, you cannot read his diatribe without drawing the conclusion that he's simply parroting the complaints voiced by Founder or Founders who are suffering from buyers remorse. Believe me... I know the feeling. Actually doubly so... Not only am I a Founder but the mech I picked (Fatlas) I can't pilot out of a wet paper bag and it's collecting dust in the back of my mech bay!

Talk about feeling screwed.

I use my Founders more then a D-DC. But not everything in that Article is just buyers remorse. The point i want to make that this game was obviously a cash grab game. Look at we were at now. Most patches are only for cash grab.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Sarlic, on 03 September 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

I use my Founders more then a D-DC. But not everything in that Article is just buyers remorse. The point i want to make that this game was obviously a cash grab game. Look at we were at now. Most patches are only for cash grab.

most patches are only for cash grab? besides new mech for hero's I dont see how.

ooooh yea, the cockpit items, i completely forget they exist, and I never actually bought one.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 03 September 2014 - 09:22 PM.