32 replies to this topic

[Heffay]

NextGame, on 07 September 2014 - 04:12 AM, said:

Cannot support this unfortunately. While on the surface the basic message is straightforward and seemingly innocuous, this petition is a vehicle for SJW publicity, who quite frankly need kicked right out of gaming.

I will not go into the semantics here, there's plenty of material across the internet right now to peruse. I would urge people that if they are interested in the subject matter that they do their legwork before taking a stance. Do not fall into the trap of being used as a tool in a cause that you might not actually agree with, something that can happen very easily in this particular battle given the nuanced tactics that are being employed.

I was hopeful that #gamergate would bypass this little island of the internet, somewhere I thought I might be able to get on with, you know, gaming. Sadly it seems that this wont be possible.

I've said it elsewhere, and will reiterate, the developers with the most integrity and awareness of their customer base will steer clear of this petition.

You're missing the whole point. Gamergate is just a tiny drop in the bucket. What they are talking about is not sitting idly by when people make misogynistic jokes (as the one Sandpit made) or comparing video games to **** or abusive relationships.

[NextGame]

Heffay, on 07 September 2014 - 06:02 AM, said:

You're missing the whole point. Gamergate is just a tiny drop in the bucket. What they are talking about is not sitting idly by when people make misogynistic jokes (as the one Sandpit made) or comparing video games to **** or abusive relationships.

No. You're missing the whole point.

Zoe Quinn Sex for funding & positive coverage scandal -> Community Pushback -> Game "Journalists" close ranks to protect their own -> champion the female jack Thompson and decide to declare that gamers are all evil white male mysogonists because: computer games. A wildly unfair accusation that attempts to paint everyone with the same brush.

Heffay: Are you a misogynist?

# The "Mysogyny" and "Developers are getting abused" focus is simply blowback from games "journalists" creating and publicising noise to divert attention away from their own misdeeds.

# Gamers are not single white males who go around making misogynistic comments at every opportunity. If they are, then who have I been married to for the past 10 years? My wife is also a serious gamer and also unimpressed by the SJW behaviour to date. Gaming today is more diverse by any measure that you can imagine than at any time in history.

# What people say privately, or in their own social group is actually none of your, or games journalism's concern. Subcultures and microcultures have their own glue that holds them together, no one in the peanut gallery has the authority to dictate that they conform to a specific set of beliefs.

# If people are dissatisfied with a product, they should be free to express this. Often, in gaming, dissatisfaction doesn't even get the courtesy of a response never mind a favourable response, this escalates negative behaviour amongst a community. You've seen it here in MWO. Do some people take it too far? Yeah of course, but a community for any title or developer or even publisher, is a reflection on their management of it. If developers understood how to engage properly with their communities and lessen the stakes, you would find less behaviour that could be interpreted as hostile.

# If people hate on me for being a gamer (and I am to the very core, as most positive opportunities I have had in life have in some way originated from my gaming hobby), then I will be against them every single step of the way.

edit: missed a few words.

Edited by NextGame, 07 September 2014 - 07:10 AM.

[990Dreams]

NextGame, on 07 September 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

# Gamers are not single white males who go around making misogynistic comments at every opportunity. If they are, then who have I been married to for the past 10 years? My wife is also a serious gamer and also unimpressed by the SJW behaviour to date. Gaming today is more diverse by any measure that you can imagine than at any time in history.

And, if they are, what's the big deal? They're probably also living a pathetic existence. So why should you care what these fools have to say?

Answer: You shouldn't. Ignore them, or do like I do. Point out that they're acting like an eight year old.

Edited by DavidHurricane, 07 September 2014 - 09:07 AM.

[Argann]

Is this thread a bait? I mean really...

[Tahribator]

I'll just leave this here:

[Lily from animove]

[redacted] for fame and money? thats probably the oldest "strategy" Life has since ever. Why do we suddenly care? Ignore and let those people "die off the screen".

Oh and btw, whats up with the corruption now in gaming industry thing?
PC magazines also gave their main sponsors better critics 15 years ago. So nothing new to see here.

Edited by Egomane, 08 September 2014 - 03:33 AM.
language / Filter avoidance

[Joseph Mallan]

Diversity
Does not exclude Bigots. Excluding Bigots while claiming diversity is in fact Bigotry. I will speak out against it, but I will not deny a person their right to be a Jackhole.

[Gremlich Johns]

Heffay, on 05 September 2014 - 05:03 AM, said:

It's tough to explain this with the word filter, but suffice it to say that jokes at the expense of women should be handled with the same level of disdain as jokes about sexuality and race.

How about:

"Man says to a bartender "I think redheads are meaner than blondes."
The Bartender says "I don't know, my wife's been both and I can't tell the difference"

[Darth Futuza]

Gremlich Johns, on 08 September 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

How about:

"Man says to a bartender "I think redheads are meaner than blondes."
The Bartender says "I don't know, my wife's been both and I can't tell the difference"

I still don't understand how someone would take offense to this...its not insulting women, its insulting the bartender's wife. Additionally the joke could easily be reversed to have women talking about husbands and still be funny. Heck the bartender could be a lesbian woman and the joke would still be there.

[TOGSolid]

Lily from animove, on 07 September 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

[redacted] for fame and money? thats probably the oldest "strategy" Life has since ever. Why do we suddenly care? Ignore and let those people "die off the screen".

Oh and btw, whats up with the corruption now in gaming industry thing?
PC magazines also gave their main sponsors better critics 15 years ago. So nothing new to see here.

Seriously. All this hullabaloo about "corruption in game journalism" is disingenuous bullshit. That **** has been rampant for years with multiple reports about it and yet all these people just now bandwagoning this just kept right on with going to these awful sites and reading all the ****** magazines.

[Carlos Vinson]

Darth Futuza, on 08 September 2014 - 01:10 PM, said:

I still don't understand how someone would take offense to this...its not insulting women, its insulting the bartender's wife. Additionally the joke could easily be reversed to have women talking about husbands and still be funny. Heck the bartender could be a lesbian woman and the joke would still be there.

There are people out there who members of the Union Of The Perpetually Offended. They being much better smarted people than we the great unwashed, know how we should live our lives, and what we shoud think. They are ++ good.

[Pht]

Interesting and a bit sad to see that people STILL don't realize that the problem that causes the symptoms discussed in this thread is that humans are touched by moral evil in all of their parts; physically, mentally, emotionally, in our desires, etc.

"Humans are ok! I swear they are! It just their behavior in every realm that bugs me!"

[S3dition]

I don't condone threats or abuse of developers anywhere for any reason. However, I feel I need to point out a few things:

1) Zoe Quinn had thousands rush to her defense while Phil Fish had his info leaked and posted online, effectively destroying his life and nobody cared.

2) The tropes vs women crowed prides themselves on being vague about what they consider wrong, consistently change their ideology, and universally exclude lesbians. I find this endlessly hilarious, as they protest the state of female characters then dress exactly like them for conventions (overflowing cleavage and all). Many female artists design female characters in much the same way, and depict entirely unrealistic men.

3) There is nothing particularly special about game journalism being corrupt. You can find endless stories about journalists in all industries being inept, corrupt, and general sleazebags. I recently experienced this first hand, and it's so common that it's casual. (note 3rd comment).

I could speak more at length about this, but I think Maddox does a pretty good job already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB6TiRJNI-Q