162 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Many did not go here for eSports.

**** eSports!

[Mystere]

FatYak, on 06 September 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

Plenty of great games exist without an extensive lore behind it.

And all of them are games I do not play.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

They are just lazy. Now they nerf Clanmechs to IS mechlevel and below to get 12vs12. With some work it could have been 4vs12 or 6vs12....when Clanmechs would bee realy Clanmechs. Sorry. How they do it now and how the handel TKs ingame is a joke.

[Carrie Harder]

sneeking, on 06 September 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

a rollback on existing IS nerfs would of made a good clan nerf.

WTB pre-nerf Victors and 3 heat Medium Lasers.

[Ozric]

Mystere, on 06 September 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

Many did not go here for eSports.

**** eSports!

MWO was always destined for e-sport before RPG, we knew that from the moment they told us no PVE content. The trick now is to be a good e-sport.

[MoonfireSpam]

Monkey Lover, on 06 September 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

I really dont care what they do. The problem I have is they keep changing thier mind. First I bought a summore because it was the only one pisted with jj. Turns out its a pos mech and should have got a timber. Next I upgrade to the dire so I could snipe and get some use of the clan mechs. Then they nerfed ppc. Then they nerf the lasers on the nova i bought.Now theyre telling me more clan nerfs are coming and im already not happy with the mechs I have. I would sell them all for 50% mc if I could.

Forums spoke, they listened. Remember all that PPC whine and pop tart whine and laser boating whine.

Feels like the game is better for it really.

Only people in clan mechs want it to be 6 v 12 etc since they want to roflstomp everything into dust (cuz lore obviously, not that they enjoy stomping). But turns out making over half the playerbase targets that can't fight back bad game design.

[SaltBeef]

Some say quit the game,.. I am really thinking about it! Keep pushing you'll be playing with yourself! Looked at SC, May be get into heavy gear Who knows life goes on and I put a lot of money into this game so keep pushing. I bet most of you have not. just riding on those who spend monies coat-tails all the while crying about what you cannot afford to buy yourselves. I do not want to play glorified IS clan mechs or IS mechs that are better because the devs are all IS guys.. Heard it in the dev log 4 or 5 should have listened to my guts.

Edited by SaltBeef, 06 September 2014 - 07:50 AM.

[CheebaMech]

Mystere, on 06 September 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

Many did not go here for eSports.

Clan mechs are supposed to be WAY more powerful ton-for-ton than their IS counterparts. In addition to Star/Lance* configurations; that's why it's supposed to be 10v12. Balanced it is not.


*For those unaware, IS "Lances" are configured with 4 mechs. Clan equivalant "Stars" are comprised of 5 mechs. So a 'balanced' fight would be 2 Stars of Clan mechs vs 3 Lances of IS mechs

[Mystere]

Ozric, on 06 September 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

MWO was always destined for e-sport before RPG, we knew that from the moment they told us no PVE content. The trick now is to be a good e-sport.

Really?




I repeat:

"A BatteTech Game"

Edited by Mystere, 06 September 2014 - 07:54 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

FatYak, on 06 September 2014 - 04:45 AM, said:

Harsh title, but it has some truth in it

Clan Nerfs WERE needed.


Few intelligent and honest players would deny that.

Few intelligent and honest players would deny that they over nerfed many things, nerfed things that did not need it, and also approached the nerfs in the WRONG way.

We got 8 new mechs, and a bevy of weapons. SOme indeed were/are OP, and some were borderline. 2 Mechs, the Twolf and Stormcrow, qualified as broken, and a couple of the builds the Dwolf is capable of.

By aggressively nerfing, with HEAT most of the weapons, the other 5 chassis that were marginal to bad, to begin with just became worse than most IS equivalents. If you really think the Summoner or Adder are OP, you need to simply uninstall the game now and walk away.

But the nerfs, as done, did NOTHING to stop or slow down MetaWhales (PPC/Gauss Direwolf) or DakkaWhales, the 2 "broken, meta approved" DWolf variants. While slowing certain TWolf builds down (actually, my primaries really have not even noticed, funny that, when you don't need to boat to win), it is still far and away superior to all the other heavy Chassis. But thanks to the nerfs the Summoner is now with the Dragon in the crap pile. Good job, that.

Likewise, my Stormcrows actually received a buff, with Streaks getting shorter cooldown.

Before the last sets of nerfs, Pulse lasers were being used, not because they were good, but because LPL had a far shorter cooldown than the ERLarge, so it was less BAD. It is still far from optimal. And MPL and SPL? WHo in the heck was complaining those were OP?

Hint: NOBODY.

The issues, is that most of the balance was in the design of 2 chassis, far more than in the weapons themselves. And in some cases, the obvious answer, was that the IS weapons needed a buff, like IS Mlasers and SLasers both of which run hotter than they should. As for Clan Pulse lasers? At what point does ANYONE consider 4 MPL and a LB-10X some type of game breaking, assault caliber arsenal? And yet, due to continued heat nerfs, a Summoner with that armament was shutdowning down after a mere two volleys with that, on Forest Colony.

So yes, Clan Mechs needed Nerfs. They needed some weapons nerfed, INTELLIGENTLY (hint, heat is not always the answer) and some Chassis, through Quirks (such as, the Twolf. It's base nature is the perfect storm for effectiveness. Can't really change it's speed, armor or payload. You CAN make it much less agile (nothing in Fluff actually denotes it being particularly thus) and make it very fast with inline speed, designed for blitzkrieg attacks, but not so quick to turn and such. There are dozens of thing that COULD have been done.

But while Clan NErfs were needed, they were needed to be handled better than this lazy, generic sweep approach.

[Mystere]

MoonfireSpam, on 06 September 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

Forums spoke, they listened. Remember all that PPC whine and pop tart whine and laser boating whine.

Feels like the game is better for it really.

Only people in clan mechs want it to be 6 v 12 etc since they want to roflstomp everything into dust (cuz lore obviously, not that they enjoy stomping). But turns out making over half the playerbase targets that can't fight back bad game design.

There are many ways to achieve so-called "balance". But, a literal "1:1" approach is just not being "creative" (to put it ever so mildly). Software developers, especially game developers, should be creative. It is a job requirement, as far as I am concerned.

Unless of course they just see themselves as mere "programmers".

[Tarogato]

I'm sticking with this game no matter what happens. Whether I will ever buy MC is another question...

As an IS pilot, I'm totally okay with clan mechs being overpowered. I'm not even a TT'er, I just appreciate that the clans are supposed to be monsters according to lore and I want to see that reflected in gameplay.

If PGI can't make 12v10 happen without pushing back community warfare again, then they seriously need they seriously need to look at hiring some more talented programmers software developers into the team.

Edited by Tarogato, 06 September 2014 - 08:11 AM.

[Hoax415]

I hope you golds remember all this when they release overpowered clan hero mechs. You could have stopped falling for this scam years ago and we would have a better game.

They want to take your money and then eventually they will be forced to nerf these clan heros back to reality (if they even care about old MWO at that point).

[Jonathan Paine]

I play this game due to its rich lore. Like many I've spent hundreds of dollars on it and would spend more as long as it does not turn into just another generic game.

So no, I don't have to suck it up.

Edited by Jonathan Paine, 06 September 2014 - 08:02 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ozric, on 06 September 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

MWO was always destined for e-sport before RPG, we knew that from the moment they told us no PVE content. The trick now is to be a good e-sport.

Can we please dispense with the oxymoron that is "E-sports"?

Do you mean "Competitive Video Game"? Fine.

But sitting at a computer, with your bag of cheetos, 6 pack of Monster, with one's higher than average body fat level and cholesterol, is NOT a sport: ie, An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

Folks need to stop deluding themselves, and diluting, the English language.

[Mystere]

Tarogato, on 06 September 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

If PGI can't make 12v10 happen without pushing back community warfare again, then they seriously need they seriously need to look at hiring some more talented programmers into the team.

PGI does not need more "programmers". They are dime a dozen.

What PGI needs are real, bona fide software developers. There is a difference, and which is why I only hire the latter.

[ImperialKnight]

Nerfing Clan weapons is the wrong way to go. But not because why you think it is.

Clan and IS mechs should have different flavours. If Clan weapons start getting nerfed and "normalised", we just end up with the same damn weapon systems with different name tags.

Clan weapons should hit harder, hit farther and Clan mechs should run cooler. That's the Clan "flavour". Clan mechs should be nerfed in other ways, i.e. more DoT damage, more fragility.

This way we, as players, have a choice of play style. IS mechs for durable workhorse mechs that can take a beating while dishing out more PPFLD damage or glass cannon Clan mechs that can wreck stuff fast but fall apart the moment you start pummeling it.

[Tezcatli]

This was inevitable in a game based solely on PVP. If we had PVE. Then you could conceivably have the clans and let the players who didn't want to fight them just do PVE. But that's not the case. Rather than invalidate all of designs they put time and money into. They choose to try to balance them. Which means nerfs and buffs. You're gonna disagree with their changes. Because for some of you it goes against the lore. For others it ruins your favorite toy. And some of you just honestly believe it is balanced. Which I'm sure against certain IS meta bulldozers it probably is. There's also the fact that a lot of people wholeheartedly believe only they can balance this game.

Edited by Tezcatli, 06 September 2014 - 08:10 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tarogato, on 06 September 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

I'm sticking with this game no matter what happens. Whether I will ever buy MC is another question...

As an IS pilot, I'm totally okay with clan mechs being overpowered. I'm not even a TT'er, I just appreciate that the clans are supposed to be monsters according to lore and I want to see that reflected in gameplay.

If PGI can't make 12v10 happen without pushing back community warfare again, then they seriously need they seriously need to look at hiring some more talented programmers into the team.

I'm largely in agreement, except for one or two things: If PGI increases armor AGAIN, or turns all guns to DoT in their quest for shorter TTK, instead of actually looking for REAL answers, I will leave. I did not come here to play PapercutWarrior Online.

They want to fix TTK? Fix the real issues such as perfect multiweapon, instantaneous convergence. Such as perfect reticle stability while airborne, or at full fun. Such as being able to run the mech at the top of the heatscale with no detrimental effects.

This game started with much promise. Many of what was mentioned, WAS in the game, in closed beta (not the imperfect aim while moving at top speed, sadly). Some were removed because of issues of compatibility with HSR, etc. Fine. But somewhere, someone got Lazy and Unimaginative. And now the answers are shorter range, longer weapon duration, more armor.... whatever can be easily tweaked in an HTML, instead of actually looking for ways to address the core issues.

It's too far down the rabbit hole for things that we told them back in CB were needed, like sized Hardpoints and a better heat system. Most of us accept that, and move on. But it's not too late to try to fix convergence. It's not too late to admit this is a glorified FPS, and like virtually ALL FPS, add an expanding reticle/ (scaling) CoF while moving at high speeds and jumping.

It's not too late for them to stop looking for answers from one small group of "l33t" players, when it should be obvious to almost anyone, that most of the moves SINCE introducing the Clans have been poorly thought out, at best.

I white knighted this game, longer than almost anyone. And I still give benefit of doubt, and due where I feel merited, as opposed to many who have simply become embittered opposers, who attack all things PGI. But the reason I ain't never been one of the "boys" is because unlike certain people they do listen to, I have never been afraid to tell them when an idea was BAD, either.

[Lefty Lucy]

KhanCipher, on 06 September 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

as a BT lore nutter, i have to say this.

I'd rather a balanced game than a game that's balanced around "muh lore".

Exactly. I have a Clan Ghost Bear Tau Galaxy Binary painted up in loving detail, with unit markings, second-line mechs (as they're a second-line galaxy), and vehicle support. I have source books printed over 20 years ago, and some printed only a couple years ago. I really enjoy immersing myself in the lore and universe, and especially dig the Clans.

I mean, a bunch of genetically-modified, vat-grown ass-kickers from the back alleys of space, with a society and ritualized form of combat tailored to preserve human life and works in the face of extreme adversity. The Clans are the son who went off to war, and came back wanting to make things better, but only knowing how to fight.

That's. Freaking. Awesome.

Oh, and in Tabletop they've got more powerful robots too.

Seriously, the more powerful robots are the least interesting thing about the Clans.

There is no successful PVP game that is not balanced. Can balance be achieved through factions being more powerful and less powerful in ways that compliment each other? Absolutely. Can balance be achieved through telling the players of one faction that they just have to accept that they're going to lose because the other faction is stronger? Absolutely not.