20 replies to this topic

[UrsusMorologus]

I'm looking at lights for the purpose of scouting and revealing enemy mechs, not planning to buy right now and just looking at options. I notice right away that you cannot have a light with ECM, JJ, and Narc although you can get close if you use a BAP on a Spider SDR-5D. You can even fit in a TAG to help focus the rear-line LRMs.

Spider SDR-5D Scout

However that build does not have a single piece of offensive capability and relies on everybody else to do something useful.

How practical is that in pugs?

[xSONOHx]

UrsusMorologus, on 06 September 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

However that build does not have a single piece of offensive capability and relies on everybody else to do something useful.

How practical is that in pugs?

I personally wouldn't use it but if you want to try it, go ahead. You just need to have your team work with you.

Of course, you could remove some JJs for a medium laser or a small laser.

Edited by xSONOHx, 06 September 2014 - 06:49 AM.

[luigi256]

Extra five tons on that build is for weapons I presume? You'll probably want to upgrade to the 255XL engine it is extremely useful and the extra speed for lights is needed. You don't need that many jump jets,

As for using it in pugs there is no guarantee that you will have a missile boat on your side to make use of the mech completely.

Here is a modified build that you could use. I still kinda don't like it though it was something quick I threw together.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a8c1aee5a4ae043

[DodgerH2O]

I've gone with something like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...148751225e70fd8

Don't ever put less than max armor on the legs of ANY light mech, especially one with maxxed JJs. The ERLL spider linked above is also a good scout mech, you can poke from range and still TAG decently.

EDIT: I've played a pure scout ECM Commando, just TAG, NARC, ECM, and speed. It's a lot of fun to see how well you can do but for PUGs it's far too reliant on your team composition. No LRMs? Too bad for you. Cowardly team that won't use your recon to push? Too bad for you. Enemy has 5 ECM to your one? You get the picture. As part of a small or large ("Premade") team though, pure scout mechs can shine.

Edited by DodgerH2O, 06 September 2014 - 07:14 AM.

[Tarogato]

I've been playing a Jenner D with narc on it. I find I don't need the ECM, so long as I have Radar Derp. It works great and it really feels like I have an impact on the game. Even without friendly LRMs it helps to be able to light up targets so your team knows where the enemy is, and red doritos on the minimap is the one thing that affects how pugs play the most, I'd say. And pulling almost 300 dmg every match doesn't hurt, I play it pretty aggressively.

I'd much rather use the Jenner K for this, but they nerfed it when they made its module slots the same as the D, so now it's pointless. Wish they'd add the slot back, I'd totally rebuy that mech.

Edited by Tarogato, 06 September 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[Cybersniper Vickers]

6 JJ, max armor.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fb758769582af1a

[Roughneck45]

The effectiveness of pure scout builds right now is pretty horrible.

Most matches end with one side being destroyed. Its best to bring weapons instead of support pieces, unless you are running with a premade or something.

[IraqiWalker]

Actually, that build can't launch. A mech with no weapons that deal damage is considered illegal, and can't launch. I tried to launch in a NARC+ECM+TAG commando. Wouldn't let me. Had to switch the TAG to an ML.

However, support/scout builds can be very effective. They depend on how many LRM boats you have on your team. A simple ML+NARC+TAG+ECM Raven, with 2-3 LRM boats can be the harbinger of death and destruction to the enemy team. On the other hand, you could drop with the best support equipment out there, and then be useless, because there were no mechs that could use your equipment.

Generally speaking, pure support/scout lights are not welcome in the PuG queue, simply because you have no idea what your team will bring. In premades, they have a place, and can work to terrifying effect (This current Lance Challenge should be a great testament to that)

[SethAbercromby]

IraqiWalker, on 06 September 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

In premades, they have a place, and can work to terrifying effect (This current Lance Challenge should be a great testament to that)

I can testify to that. As a Stalker pilot, dropping in a large premade, with one of our guys bringing his infamous NARC Raven and we were dropping priority targets to darngerously low health - if not immediate death - long before the first proper trade of fire of the two front lines. This allowed us to main tain a clear first minute advantage over the enemy team that was struggling just to say out of the rain.

*scanns through the indirect locks from Raven*
Me: "What's the position on Delta - Dire Wolf?"
Raven: "He's in the open."
Me: "Alright, I got a good firing angle from here, can you get a NARC on him?"
*Narc symbol pops up*
Raven: "He's up."
*cue rain of fire and one very distressed Dire Wolf*

[DodgerH2O]

IraqiWalker, on 06 September 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Actually, that build can't launch. A mech with no weapons that deal damage is considered illegal, and can't launch. I tried to launch in a NARC+ECM+TAG commando. Wouldn't let me. Had to switch the TAG to an ML.

I believe you, and that depresses me that weaponless mechs can't launch, I once got 7 damage and an assist in a RVN-4X with no weapons. I ran my Commando some months back, before NARC got some buffs, so apparently they've decided to change things since then.

[3xnihilo]

I have had good luck pugging with an erppc/tag spider 5d . When I drop with LRM boats it is murder on the enemy team. If there aren't any missiles I can still have fun sniping and harassing with the erppc. I have also had good luck with a raven 3L with BAP narc and 3 mlas. Remember even when your team doesn't have lrm's lighting up the enemy for them is still very valuable. (I am on my phone or I would give smurfy links)

[InspectorG]

A simple way to get easy to introduce role warfare is new maps @ 3-4x the size of alpine.

Lights would scout just to find the enemy, or counter their lights.

Mediums would benefit as well, they would have to position/brawl until the heavies got there.

Downside? longer matches perhaps. Rewards for both sides would be buffed to compensate for the match time(rewards per hour average)

[Alaskan Nobody]

InspectorG, on 06 September 2014 - 07:48 PM, said:

Downside? longer matches perhaps. Rewards for both sides would be buffed to compensate for the match time(rewards per hour average)

Not to be a downer - but more likely it would work about like Alpine, CS or TT do, and the fight would work out in the middle of the map.

Edit: without reasons to be in other places, that is where most PuG fights will be anyways - if only because that is the simplest way to find the enemy or be able to move to the enemy if you are slow

Edited by Shar Wolf, 06 September 2014 - 08:04 PM.

[Blakkstar]

Right now, zero.

When CW comes out and you run with coordinated teams, it will be amazing.

[AntleredCormorant]

3xnihilo, on 06 September 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

I have had good luck pugging with an erppc/tag spider 5d .

That was the first mech I purchased/built & is still one of my faves. I would only add that flipping over to counter-ECM mode is very effective & something easily forgotten in the heat of battle.

[IraqiWalker]

Blakkstar, on 12 September 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

Right now, zero.

When CW comes out and you run with coordinated teams, it will be amazing.

Just remember that pure scout builds with no weapons that deal damage are illegal in the game, and won't launch.

[mailin]

Not entirely sure that taking BAP with ECM is currently worth it. ECM will usually let you get behind the enemy and get close enough without being detected. If you really want to run that way, I suggest removing some jj (I only use 2 in my 5D), and adding FF which will let you equip either mlas or (my personal favorite) mplas.

Also, I suggest lowering the armor on the head to around 5 or 6 and adding that 12 or 13 points to the left arm. I realize it's only a shield, but if you lose that arm, your ST is now exposed. I think in all the drops in my 5D I've only died to head shot twice.

[IraqiWalker]

mailin, on 21 September 2014 - 03:59 AM, said:

Not entirely sure that taking BAP with ECM is currently worth it. ECM will usually let you get behind the enemy and get close enough without being detected. If you really want to run that way, I suggest removing some jj (I only use 2 in my 5D), and adding FF which will let you equip either mlas or (my personal favorite) mplas.

Also, I suggest lowering the armor on the head to around 5 or 6 and adding that 12 or 13 points to the left arm. I realize it's only a shield, but if you lose that arm, your ST is now exposed. I think in all the drops in my 5D I've only died to head shot twice.

The BAP helps get the info out faster, and from farther range. Once you're inside an enemy ECM bubble, yes, not that useful. However, scouting/spotting from 800+ meters away, BAP does help.

[That Dawg]

UrsusMorologus, on 06 September 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

How practical is that in pugs?

two things:

Very effective, fully researched, a light with the biggest engine (anything over 150kph) ECM is nice, but if you're truly doing it right, not 100% needed.
load up with UAV, imp. arty strike, tag laser
or harrasser, like the 5K with big block engine, erlarge, if you can get 2-3 to chase you, you just halved their forward capabilities.

downside......it doesn't pay crap to be a fully enhanced scout. You might get something for UAV, or the arty strike, or the tag, but day in day out, running pugs with a dedicated scout just isn't worth it.

IraqiWalker, on 19 September 2014 - 11:41 PM, said:

Just remember that pure scout builds with no weapons that deal damage are illegal in the game, and won't launch.

pity too, launch with a lance of LRM and defensive mechs with you as their forward eyes, it would be very cool...

IF the lance split the wages of war, THAT would lead to some teamwork. (think restaurant/bar workers, they all do everything, even the not so glamourous, yet all reap the rewards of teamwork, and DAMAGE)

[ApolloKaras]

That Dawg, on 21 September 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

pity too, launch with a lance of LRM and defensive mechs with you as their forward eyes, it would be very cool...

IF the lance split the wages of war, THAT would lead to some teamwork. (think restaurant/bar workers, they all do everything, even the not so glamourous, yet all reap the rewards of teamwork, and DAMAGE)

I'm with you on the scout in Pugs. Scouts can be very dangerous.

A pity why? There should be no reason you are not bringing a weapon. Your scout is only as valuable as the information it provides and if the information is acted on. Frankly I'd drop all JJ's but 2, take off the bap, add an er large 1 medium and a tag. Normally the enemy is under an ecm bubble anyway at that point bap is only giving you a enemy's load out quicker, 1.5 tons is too much. Add target info gathering to make up for it.

Edited by Saxie, 21 September 2014 - 05:57 AM.