28 replies to this topic

[RockmachinE]

Lily from animove, on 09 September 2014 - 01:06 AM, said:

Well, Rus sis right here, but why splitting the population?
They shoudl think in new ways.

set up a match-server in the west US, and one in EU. Then initiate the MM o primarily trying to match people of the same region/latency. If not enough are available, create a match with cross region queuend people.

There is no need to split population, the mechlab can be ona central server for everyone, and matches will then just take place on any of the servers. Priorising to keep the latency low for people near the server. If population at offtimes is too low, let them play on the US east again.

This is brilliant. Split people regionally only so long as there's enough players, if that criteria is not met, move on and combine the queues and move all people to the NA servers like it was now. This could work if implemented correctly. Somehow though, I don't think PGI would be up for it.

That being said EU servers would be great, I wonder how MWO feels playing sub-120ms. I admire you australians and other guys that fight the good fight though, even when pings are as high as 1/3 of a ******* second.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 09 September 2014 - 05:53 AM.

[Savage Wolf]

First of all you started comparing database load. And it doesn't look like you know how a database works. Loading mechdata isn't easy because it's not just inventory it's a lot more info about where the item is located and what it changes about the mech and so and so forth. This is comparable to MMOs when you change equipped gear. Except a mech is a lot more complicated than a character and gear in MMOs are more complicated than in MWO.
Next is inventory. Inventory is easy. It's just a list of items and the quantity. Items in inventory have no effect until equiped.
MWO might not have loot but there is still inventory management because of ammo and consumables. Not that ammo wont be reset every battle, but the server still needs to keep track of it. That and armor.

And there is a reason why the TF2 model isn't used. Anti-cheat will be more difficult, not just in-battle, but also postbattle. PGI would not have complete control of the servers and this would create a lot of new problems they would have to deal with including server support.
And it would certainly still split the population if not more than an EU server would.
It works for TF2 because there is no real reward for winning a match, not compared to MWO.

[CharlieChap]

This would not be a technical decision primarily I doubt but an economic one.

Would new regional servers cost more than they generate to run ?, or would they grow the player base enough to generate revenue ?.

Not easy to predict I doubt. One can guess that it will increase players, but whether that increases revenue enough to cover the increased running cost is entirely a subject of our conjecture.

Probably Russ's primarily consideration rather than the technicalities of actually doing it (its one of the things a CEO has to think about after all as there are a lot of people relying upon it.)....although its more diplomatic to talk about technicalities isn't it.

If you can prove beyond doubt that regional servers will increase revenue in some way, you probably will have them next week !

[Lily from animove]

Savage Wolf, on 09 September 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

First of all you started comparing database load. And it doesn't look like you know how a database works. Loading mechdata isn't easy because it's not just inventory it's a lot more info about where the item is located and what it changes about the mech and so and so forth. This is comparable to MMOs when you change equipped gear. Except a mech is a lot more complicated than a character and gear in MMOs are more complicated than in MWO.
Next is inventory. Inventory is easy. It's just a list of items and the quantity. Items in inventory have no effect until equiped.
MWO might not have loot but there is still inventory management because of ammo and consumables. Not that ammo wont be reset every battle, but the server still needs to keep track of it. That and armor.

And there is a reason why the TF2 model isn't used. Anti-cheat will be more difficult, not just in-battle, but also postbattle. PGI would not have complete control of the servers and this would create a lot of new problems they would have to deal with including server support.
And it would certainly still split the population if not more than an EU server would.
It works for TF2 because there is no real reward for winning a match, not compared to MWO.

items when inventory is altered does have a effect, because the inventory is stored in a databse and everytime you alter the inventory the databse is altered too. Sure an Inventory is easy, but it requires a lot alterations and databse access. Ok, you could store it in the runtime data, But once your server crashes and the runtime is gone, wow, your comunity will rip you apart when a superrare legendary item went gone by this.

you mech is simple, the effects of the mechs components are calculated by the runtime, they don't need to be stored in a Database. When I change equip in an mmo, the game needs to alter database. Where did I stored that item? Did I deleted it?
The battle in MWO runtime just deletes the component form the runtime (or excludes it form calculation). It does not alter the mechs databse entry, because the Database mech is only touched in the mechlab. So my arm is gone? Why should this require any kind of database alterations? Its 100% runtime based whats happening in any MWO battle and 100% non related to any databse actions.

and again explain your anticheat stuff? it makes no sense, its the same as before, I play on a IGP server, where the location of the Database is completely unimportant.

it is like the TF 2 model, just with the difference, that the dedicated servers are runned by IGP, not the people. I don't knwo where this should cause any troubles. Their server is anyways a cluster of some blades I guess, and if some blades would be in EU, US and AUS, would not change that much except having some more contracts with different Datacenters

[Jonny Taco]

drinniol, on 09 September 2014 - 01:20 AM, said:

To be frank MWO isn't a game where low ping gives an advantage.

In fact it often works in reverse. Lag shield is still very much a thing. Having to lead light mechs with lasers (lead with lasers? wtf?) even after HSR is getting a bit old... Generally this does not happen unless the difference in ping is greater than 150 though.

[Savage Wolf]

I didn't say the database wasn't altered when using the inventory, I said it was easy. Databases are made for small incremental changes like adding a new item to the inventory. The change is minimal and fast to store. Changing something like gear changes a hell of a lot more and requires a lot more checks which is something databases are less happy with.

And yes, their servers at their current datacenter is probably a couple of racks running there. But simply having some racks somewhere else in the world doesn't mean you can now connect any place you want. Data centres are closed circuits for a reason: security. Having to communicate from one server to another is easy within the same data centres but no so much among them and it opens up more security problems if someone hijacks the communication.

But in the end, programming a matchmaker which can handle this kind of structure is no small feat and would take more effort than making CW.

But the best argument I have is still this: No one have done it. Not ever. And I find it unlikely that the big guys out there hasn't thought of it either. So it's either too much work, too little gain or it simply doesn't work.

[Gierling]

You are still missing the point because you are still talking about a matchmaker.

Just put dedicated servers in different locations (and allow players to host their own matches). No Matchmaker needed, click on Server, see people you want to play with in it, click "Join".

Boom, problem solved. Talk of the matchmaker is a red herring.

[Motroid]

Zuesacoatl, on 09 September 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

I feel bad for eu/aus players, but there is no way they are going to split the community. It was never promised during founders packs. It has always been stated that they will look into it but never promised.

Well, you are wrong here since they said to have EU servers when "releasing". It was the only thing that mattered to me when originally purchasing the founders pack so I know that for sure. They wrote it in the details next to their design pillars and claimed it in numerous "Ask the devs". Companies should be held responsible for blatantly misleading customers for a quick money grab.
I give them the benefit of the doubt because I think there might be some changes to the server structure when CW and planetary conquest finally arrives.
Games with less players online at any time have at least NA and EU servers so I tend to believe that it's more of an economic reason (as somebody stated already). Minimum investment - Maximum profit. Minimally viable. This is so pathetic...but soon we got "auniversetoexplore" that's a slap in the face of any founder from EU/AUS/RUS as long as there are no servers for them to play seriously.

[Zuesacoatl]

Motroid, on 13 September 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

Well, you are wrong here since they said to have EU servers when "releasing". It was the only thing that mattered to me when originally purchasing the founders pack so I know that for sure. They wrote it in the details next to their design pillars and claimed it in numerous "Ask the devs". Companies should be held responsible for blatantly misleading customers for a quick money grab.
I give them the benefit of the doubt because I think there might be some changes to the server structure when CW and planetary conquest finally arrives.
Games with less players online at any time have at least NA and EU servers so I tend to believe that it's more of an economic reason (as somebody stated already). Minimum investment - Maximum profit. Minimally viable. This is so pathetic...but soon we got "auniversetoexplore" that's a slap in the face of any founder from EU/AUS/RUS as long as there are no servers for them to play seriously.

Nope, they always said they would look into it, but NA was the priority. I have been here almost since day 1, and they always promised to look into it, but never promised to actually drop a server for EU. Again, I feel bad for you guys, but when buying items and packs, it was knowing full well you did not have a server in your area, AND that this was an f2p production so not all discussed aspects and topics of the past present and future of this game were/are going to come to true. Never buy on hopes and rainbows, always know when you spend money, it is on the product you see before you, and the vapor ware you hope to see in the future. Blame everyone you want for your purchase blunders, but in the end, only you held the card and entered it's numbers into the pay window, no one was holding a gun to your head when you did it.