175 replies to this topic

[Diomeneus]

I am a veteran of some of the most toxic game communities out there (Dota, HoN, Dota2, LoL, any and all Halo's, some CoD, etc etc.).

While I see things like Dota2 get improved tools and tweaks that help guide it's horrific players into a more civilized and well behaved mass.... that's Valve... they are a juggernaut and quite frankly better at managing their toxic community than any other developer out there.

That being said, I wish they didn't NEED tools to curb the community. MWO has just as toxic and a self-damaging community as any of the worst ones out there and the best way to fix it is for us, the users to shut out crappy little naive mouths and be civil. This town hall meeting was wonderful and I sincerely hope it goes a long way into helping you, the harmful users of this game, into better understanding and more appreciate customers.

Keep up the good work PGI. Thank you to all those members out there who AREN'T contributing to damaging the community

[bobF]

I hope someone duly reported the op as a (mediocre) troll. 2/10.

[Kraven Kor]

bobF, on 10 September 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

I hope someone duly reported the op as a (mediocre) troll. 2/10.

And yet maybe someone should report you for personal insults.

But that might be a bit heavy-handed / overreacting, no?

[1453 R]

Kraven Kor, on 10 September 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

I don't like to presume what is happening in someone else's head.

So I don't know if they are or were 100% committed or whatever.

I just know that the game I was sold in 2012 has failed to materialize in any meaningful way, all the while watching PGI make... questionable decisions and heavy-handed responses up to and including essentially telling us, the Founders, that we were no longer the target audience...

***

Explain?

It’s simple, really. Commodity Warfare is built for large, rigidly organized player organizations, as a method by which those organizations can stake a claim in the Inner Sphere and fight a persistent battle for control over their choice of planets, or act as a mobile raiding force attacking other people’s planets in an attempt to score offensive wins for their chosen faction.

It offers absolutely nothing to solo-dropping Puglandia players like myself, as the C-bill investment to get involved in Commodity Warfare is expected to be astronomical enough to make entire units think twice about chipping in for it. Despite this, CW will take a good-sized bite out of the regular queue’s player base as people transition 100% of their time and investment over to The Fourth Pillar, making matchmaking an even more tedious and time-consuming a task for us filthy lowlife Puglandia players too stupid/antisocial/foul-smelling/whatever-it-is-we-are-this-time to hitch up with some other player’s personal private army and follow orders like a good little cog in the machine.

Furthermore, all future events are very, very likely to be focused around Commodity Warfare and the Fight For The Inner Sphere™, with no real support or incentives to continue in the regular drop queue – and this is under the best of circumstances, where CW is developed and implemented as an alternative game mode to the regular queue which is left as-is. I fully expect the regular drop queue to be left to wither and die on the vine and eventually be cut from the game altogether, given how incredibly vocal the Commodity Warfare crew in the forums has been about how much they [HATE the regular drop queue and how much they NEED “a true and proper MechWarrior game”. I.e. Community Warfare.

Commodity Warfare represents a shift away from supporting people with lives, jobs, and some measure of personal pride such as myself, who aren’t able to join player-run units. We’ve Gotten Ours for two-plus years, and the CW folks are all hot-n-bothered about them Getting Their Turn, no matter what it costs the players who’ve been doing their part to keep the game afloat while Piranha was figuring out how to pull its head out of its colon. To be brutally honest, you CW guys don’t really care if I end up out in the cold and unable to play anymore, and never mind all the fiscal support I’ve kicked into this game.

It’s very disheartening to see, especially given how many Puglandia players are more than willing to back up the organized ultracomp crew in their demand that The Fourth Pillar be made a proper reality already.

[Fut]

1453 R, on 10 September 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

<stuff>

Suppose some of us are looking for more than just endless 15mins periods of Big Robot Battles...
Don't worry though, the Solo Pug queue will be just fine - it'll be needed for people to earn Cbills in order to support their war efforts in CW.

[Roland]

Gorantir, on 10 September 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

Russ did sorta say 3/3/3/3 was role warfare just by weight classes having different roles, and seeing who your team is targeting was information warfare....i cant comment because im not sure what they should be but it implies 'it is what it is'

Yeah, but he seemed to be unaware of the fact that the only reason you ever see light mechs in the game at all is basically because they're required in matches... not because they actually are balanced against heavy mechs, or because they are fulfilling necessary roles.

Currently, the "role" of light mechs most of the time is, "being required by the matchmaker".

[Ens]

good light mech pilots can ruin everyone´s day in the enemy team...

[Fut]

Ens, on 10 September 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

good light mech pilots can ruin everyone´s day in the enemy team...

True, but that's not really a "Role" is it?
A good Assault Pilot can ruin the enemy teams day as well...

[Fishhawk]

Fut, on 10 September 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

True, but that's not really a "Role" is it?
A good Assault Pilot can ruin the enemy teams day as well...

We all know a Light pilots true "role" is to die quickly and horribly. (at least that seems to be MY role when I pilot a Light mech)

Fut, on 10 September 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

Suppose some of us are looking for more than just endless 15mins periods of Big Robot Battles...
Don't worry though, the Solo Pug queue will be just fine - it'll be needed for people to earn Cbills in order to support their war efforts in CW.

This in so many ways.

Edited by Fishhawk, 10 September 2014 - 12:02 PM.

[Scatterplot]

The real problem with PGI is broken promises.

[Appogee]

1453 R, on 10 September 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

Heh...any time this sort of thread goes up, ninety percent of its population consists of people with "COMMUNITY WARFARE: GIVE IT TO US"

"90 per cent", huh.

1453 R, on 10 September 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

lambasting Piranha as brutally and vitriolically as possible because the one thing they want hasn't turned up yet.

"as brutally and vitriolically as possible", huh.

Well, I guess as you haven't read the thread, you can't be aware that you're wrong.

1453 R, on 10 September 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

but you need to remember that to players like me, Community Warfare is actively harmful and detrimental to my experience and honestly stands a good chance of driving me away from the game entirely since the game I like to play would no longer be supported or viable.

Fair comment. I respect that perspective, though I am not as pessimistic about CW reducing the existing game experience.

[1453 R]

Fut, on 10 September 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

Suppose some of us are looking for more than just endless 15mins periods of Big Robot Battles...
Don't worry though, the Solo Pug queue will be just fine - it'll be needed for people to earn Cbills in order to support their war efforts in CW.

Sure, but it doesn’t strike you as a bad move to pretty much just up and throw away the game they’ve been building for the last couple years to do it? Some folks can’t play hours-long supermatches to Decide The Fate Of The World, and letting the regular queue stay there as nothing more than a channel for people to farm C-bills for “the REAL MWO” strikes me as a seriously insulting stance to take.

Ah well. Like I said, it’s going to happen no matter what, and the CW folks have every right to be eager for it. I just wish they’d realize, or care if by some bizarre happenstance they already realize, that they’re scheissing all over the Puglandia diehards who’ve kept this game on its feet the last couple of years while all the “NO DOLLARZ UNTIL CW” crowd has been busy hissing and spitting and being very unhelpful.

The Founders funded our game, the one we’ve currently got, and I’m very thankful to them for the chance to play MechWarrior again. Enough so that I’m willing to back them in their desire for Commodity Warfare despite the fact that it’ll pretty seriously detract from the game I’ve been playing and paying for over the last couple-odd years. I know it’s too much to ask for, but a little gratitude and understanding in turn for the folks who funded your game, coming out in the next month or two wouldn’t go amiss, ne?

[Jon Gotham]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

while the silent majority are left scratching their heads.

The real problem is why all those people silent?

Zanathan, on 09 September 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

If I could down vote this I would but unfortunately that is one feature that is sorely lacking on these forums.

I'm glad it isn't a feature.
"I don't like that nasty man! He says things I don't like! I downvotez him yeah!"
Many moons ago, I got persecuted for over 3 months straight on the WoT forums for having the sheer audacity to defend arty. I had the sheer cheek to question the motives of some of the whiners....I also spent much time reporting and collating against some of the anti arty bullies-some of whom were actively harassing the arty defenders on the forums,via pm and also in game.....
It's good that people can't downvote just because they can't handle what a person says. People have different opinions to each other, fact of life and a rather good one.

[Revis Volek]

Russ Bullock, on 09 September 2014 - 11:46 PM, said:

....We will continue working hard.

This is all we can ask for, hope you guys have worked out the internal kinks (if any) and seem to have gotten us a more community friendly and streamlined process both for Information and the game itself. Mech release Schedules, CW module Schedules you are trying to stick to and Patch's all for the most part have been on time and with minor hot fixes or any ADDITIONAL problems arising from them, which we seem to have been getting less of since the migration.

I know many here are asking for "Road Map's" and other eye candy to make them sleep better at night but in all honesty that is a lot of fluff and I'd rather your teams time was spent on things that matter. Maps, CW, and fixing the current issues like Desynching, lag, rubberbanding, etc. (not necessarily in that order). These are the major issues which regardless of how good the content is will always make for a sub-par experience.

You will never please all everyone, its an impossible task. One of your customer will ALWAYS have something bad to say or claim someone else is doing it better but that is business. I cannot count on all my digits the number of customers I have bent over backwards for, stayed up till 4am, drove 3 plus hours for a delivery that was not in the original price just to have them write me a bad review or even not want to pay. Its a tough world out there, like i said keep up the good work and let's work together from here on out the make this GREAT!

Seyla!

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

Duncan Jr Fischer, on 10 September 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

I presume we would all live happily another 6 months or more without any new mech added to the game.
Moreover, we would be overjoyed, if just instead of mechs we had 10 new maps, and of course factions and community warfare.

BAM.

[Revis Volek]

1453 R, on 10 September 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

Sure, but it doesn’t strike you as a bad move to pretty much just up and throw away the game they’ve been building for the last couple years to do it? Some folks can’t play hours-long supermatches to Decide The Fate Of The World, and letting the regular queue stay there as nothing more than a channel for people to farm C-bills for “the REAL MWO” strikes me as a seriously insulting stance to take.

Ah well. Like I said, it’s going to happen no matter what, and the CW folks have every right to be eager for it. I just wish they’d realize, or care if by some bizarre happenstance they already realize, that they’re scheissing all over the Puglandia diehards who’ve kept this game on its feet the last couple of years while all the “NO DOLLARZ UNTIL CW” crowd has been busy hissing and spitting and being very unhelpful.

The Founders funded our game, the one we’ve currently got, and I’m very thankful to them for the chance to play MechWarrior again. Enough so that I’m willing to back them in their desire for Commodity Warfare despite the fact that it’ll pretty seriously detract from the game I’ve been playing and paying for over the last couple-odd years. I know it’s too much to ask for, but a little gratitude and understanding in turn for the folks who funded your game, coming out in the next month or two wouldn’t go amiss, ne?

How can you claim the "Puglanidia" or free to play gamer who don't pay a cent because they don't want, cant, or just don't find it important too are the ones keeping this game on its feet? How are we CW members not just as important and integral to the game as the PUG LIFERS? I for one don't belong to the N.O.P.E crowd and never will be. I myself am a small business owner and support PGI more so then others because i have been there. I know what they are going through to an extent and maybe im being too forgiving but i will continue to help them if they are being honest with the status of this game. Which i truly think they finally are....

But either way, please elaborate on how you all have been more important then those of us awaiting true Group play and the MEAT AND POTATOES of MWO? I hatge to burst your bubble but we are all equally important if we want this game to continue down a good path to pleasing all levels of play. Russ even talked about a Single Player Mode possibly getting some think tank time after CW is finished and they are ready for the next step. Are you going to be upset that more or your ilk will be FORGOTTEN ABOUT?!?!

Its makes for a more diverse game rather bland one, quit hating bro. I know this has become clique to claim "these forums are full or trolls" but this is the MWO Forums to me.....

[Achilles59]

How about the screens in my mech cockpit not saying 'Auto Detect No Signal?'

Gee, I would think something so insanely basic and blatantly in-your-face would be a top priority for any developer.

That's not even close to the biggest deal, but you can often find hints to the larger problems in the smallest of details. Overlooking such simple things like that will give you a good idea of the entire PGI mindset.

The original post is beyond ignorant and fails on every level. Yes, blame the community, after you say some hilarious 'fact' about how it's always been made up of a bunch of ********. Tell me more about your extensive experience in MWO and all things Battletech, trueborn. Where was this venomous, evil community when IGP pulled in over $5 million for founders packages? People still routinely spend more money on this game than I have ever seen rational people spend on a broken product. You can spend more money on a single mech than you do on a full game, or SEVERAL full games, that are far, far better than this.

The fact that PGI can continually not get their act together and get anything truly done besides releasing $500 packages and speakers to sit beside my auto detect failed screens is more than enough evidence for anyone paying attention. In the real world, kid, $500 could buy you a car, or pay your rent, or feed a family of four for 2 months. Even a company with a fantastic, thriving game would seem ballsy to release something like that. Not PGI, though, they're just too balls to the wall for rationality.

I'm so happy to know that without the forums and player feedback, Mechwarrior Online would be a thriving, competitive, bug-free success loaded with features that fulfilled all of the promises the developers initially made. Just stop, kid, you're embarrassing yourself. So are the rest of you apologists. Your level of denial is irresponsible.

[1453 R]

Duncan Jr Fischer, on 10 September 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

I presume we would all live happily another 6 months or more without any new mech added to the game.
Moreover, we would be overjoyed, if just instead of mechs we had 10 new maps, and of course factions and community warfare.

ArchMage Sparrowhawk, on 10 September 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

BAM.

...and we have a flawless example of just exactly what I've been talking about.

"**** you Puglandia dinkholes and what you want. Next six months+, don't release a single blessed thing that isn't specifically tailored for the needs and expectations of Community Warfare, oh and also unreasonable demand for a huge number of new maps."

Is there any particular reason the company can't keep up its current release schedule for new 'Mechs, you two? 'Mechs don't take much, new toys to play with are a great way to keep us Puglandia dinkholes amused and spending money on developing Community Warfare for you, and believe it or not this is a MechWarrior game. Which...generally means you fight with 'Mechs, yes? How is more of them a bad thing, precisely?

Oh, right...CW. More CW. Always CW. Lordamighty...I know why you guys are cheesed, I really do, and I feel badly that it's taken this long for CW to rear its ugly head, but I swear. Just tell all of us solo-droppers to GTFO and uninstall already, eh? Get it over with, get it out in the open, get Piranha behind you guys and just make it easy on all of us already, will ya?

DarthRevis, on 10 September 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

How can you claim the "Puglanidia" or free to play gamer who don't pay a cent because they don't want, cant, or just don't find it important too are the ones keeping this game on its feet? How are we CW members not just as important and integral to the game as the PUG LIFERS? I for one don't belong to the N.O.P.E crowd and never will be. I myself am a small business owner and support PGI more so then others because i have been there. I know what they are going through to an extent and maybe im being too forgiving but i will continue to help them if they are being honest with the status of this game. Which i truly think they finally are....

But either way, please elaborate on how you all have been more important then those of us awaiting true Group play and the MEAT AND POTATOES of MWO? I hatge to burst your bubble but we are all equally important if we want this game to continue down a good path to pleasing all levels of play. Russ even talked about a Single Player Mode possibly getting some think tank time after CW is finished and they are ready for the next step. Are you going to be upset that more or your ilk will be FORGOTTEN ABOUT?!?!

Its makes for a more diverse game rather bland one, quit hating bro. I know this has become clique to claim "these forums are full or trolls" but this is the MWO Forums to me.....

Okay, first of all, cool your jets. No need to get insulting and join the ranks of DJF and Sparrowhawk up there.

Second of all, I love how you equate solo-droppers and Puglandia players with "Total cheapskates who've never contributed a dime to MWO's survival." Sanity check, bro - see the little Masakari Package icon beneath my name? Shall I switch it over to my Phoenix Overlord badge? Maybe put up a montage image of the ten Hero 'Mechs I've got, or even the regular 'Mechs I MC'd over grinding C-bills for just because I was feeling especially lazy that day?

I've done my bit, and that very assumption of yours - that anyone who plays solo and doesn't sign up to be a good little drone-trooper for some jackbooted goose-stepping Rommel wannabe cracking the whip over his player-run unit is by default a useless moocher - is deeply insulting. For one, the free-to-players are the ones who give you an opponent to fight against, the guys providing the bulk of the player base you need in order to have a game at all. You don't have any right to scoff at them.

Third of all, yes. Those of us who've been playing the game we HAVE, who've been buying into the MWO that is today, are the ones responsible for the fact that you guys have a CW of Tomorrow to look forward to. The Founders' money has long since run out - they got the game on its feet, got Piranha's foot in the door, and they have my thanks for that. The money for CW? The development costs of building this game mode that, by its very nature, excludes the people who paid for it? That came from us. That came from the Puglandia players still here, still dropping, still pugging, while most all the CW folks spent their time on the forums complaining about not having CW and loudly proclaiming NOT ONE PENNY EXTRA.

The N.O.P.E. crowd does not deserve Community Warfare, and if I had my way I'd outright ban every single one of them, any individual who has ever flown a N.O.P.E. banner. Obviously I don't get my way, but the N.O.P.E. crowd and their hangers-on in threads like this don't get to insult me, belittle me, or tell me to go sit in a corner because the "meat and potatoes" of MWO takes precedence over everything else.

The meat and potatoes of MWO are sitting in a giant murder robot and using it to blow the bejeebus out of other people in their giant murder robots. The meat and potatoes of this MechWarrior game is being able to pilot 'Mechs. This convoluted shenanery all of you guys are so eager to sink your fangs into has nothing to do with piloting 'Mechs, and so far as I'm concerned just gets in the way. If I'm willing to sacrifice my game so you can have yours, accept that the game I've played, the game I've paid for, the game I enjoy is about to be reduced to nothing but the back-forty C-bill fields for Community Farmers, you can for damn sure show some respect for that decision, sir.

Edited by 1453 R, 10 September 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

you feel insulted? Don't start me up...you'll never decipher what I'm saying by counting the number of asterisks.

I havent' said **** the pugs. Half of the time I am a pug. I hate you pug ******** but I am often one of your number. At least until I get back into regular play and group up with my old clan or my new merc unit. I dont have a need for any new mechs. I've got a fair selection of Inner Sphere lights, meds, and atlases. So I have my priorities. More to the game over more cockpit overlays and coded avatar movement quirks and a shiny new 3d model in my mechlab. (that's all a mech is without a robust role warfare tactical battle sim to play around in. when everyone is in a make believe robot box, and they're all essentially the same, the game loses all playability) Sorry. If you're still in the mech collection game and you "gotta catch em all" fine. I never said to stop releasing the scheduled mechs.

But if it comes down to designing new models and putting them in the game as new mech content, I say give me some more meat first. I can't even grind enough to buy a locust, let alone a Griffin or a MadCat, and I'm in no mood to buy MC for new robbits any time soon. But what I do want is more features added to the game, and more game added to the game, and more places to play what bits of the game are already existing.

Now if you must make everything about you, no one is picking on the poor unloved pugs. Your gaming isn't going to change at all once CW is out because people will still pug when they're not capping planets.
so stop projecting.

Edited by ArchMage Sparrowhawk, 10 September 2014 - 02:12 PM.

[Aym]

Russ Bullock, on 09 September 2014 - 11:29 PM, said:

Well this wasn't very uplifting.

I appreciate the OP and his point of view, always nice to have support. Of course it's hard to hear people that don't seem to want to accept anything good but only focus on items of 1-2 years ago.

But...

For me I feel like were starting fresh now. I hope everyone listened to the town hall and we can admit that 2014 was significantly different in many ways and that we are close to delivering that final of the 4 pillars.

That final pillar, its getting close and then I hope that once that happens the tone can change to at the very least "that took too long but we have everything they promised, now lets all get along and try to keep making this game better".

Silly me I know, but I am an optimist when it comes to people. Anyhow I look forward to sharing more about CW with you in the near future.

2014 has been a better year, I listen and read and have seen just how much better the communication has been, both in terms of depth and frequently. Additionally I like the frequent sales and events we've seen lately, I'd love to see your price scheme re-modelled (as many many beta testers said) but that may be off topic and I only mention it because of your recent 3+ town hall meeting which, again, was refreshing.
That said, you just mentioned 4 pillars. I would ask if there are any plans to revisit ECM to reduce it's over-arching impact on Role Warfare (one of those pillars that many players would say is... lacking). Of course if ECM were tweaked, or re-balanced, systems affecting it would have to be done, obviously nothing can be balanced in a vacuum (again something many many beta testers like myself tried to leave feedback on... still haven't heard which is the "baseline" weapon system against which balance is measured).
Another pillar we would like to hear an update about is Role Warfare. What do you as designers feel it is in the current game so that we can more fully appreciate the distinctions we may be over looking.