31 replies to this topic

[KamikazeRat]

After watching the NGNG Town Hall (couldn't stay up for it all last night)

i thought i would go ahead and say, i would prefer to have the mechs that have MASC with or without MASC working

same thing goes with the anti-infantry pods, rear facing weapons, and anything else that mechs have that make them non-viable.

just to kick-start discussion:
1) I get the feeling that most people are going to be with me. But anyone who would be ticked off if they got a Flea, Firemoth, Shadowcat, etc... WITHOUT masc?

2)Would you rather a dummy MASC like they did for the Command Console, or just fill the void with heat sinks or ammo for the time being?

3) when/if MASC makes the cut, should MASC be limited to certain chassis like ECM or free to install on whatever?

P.S. just to shoot down some potential negative comments "just give us MASC" isn't a good enough answer, Russ said connection issues at those speeds would be a disaster, and i think it would potentially be exploited until they have time to hash it all out. (i.e. using MASC so no one could hit you reliably not due to extra speed, but due to rubber-banding issues)

Edited by KamikazeRat, 09 September 2014 - 04:56 PM.

[Empyrus]

MASC could do something else... like increase turning and aiming speed, at the expense of extra heat or something?

[Pika]

I have to agree. Sure there may be overlap in the mech roles, but I'd still rather have the MASC mechs in the game just for the sake of it

[CycKath]

We already have at least one example of a 'Mech non-MASC variants in game - the 3L Cataphract. The problem is either 'Mechs like the Flea which lack enough variants for the 3 variant minimum if you opt for the non-MASC version or the Dasher where its on the stock chassis and every config features it.

[TacticaLiuser]

I would like the option of MASC as a component or module; if only to make scary temporarily-fast brawling assaults possible again; but have it balanced due to the downsides; either more heat or % chance internal dmg to legs.

Besides; we assault brawlers can use it affectively on certain maps to close the gap and hop from cover to cover.

Edited by TacticaLiuser, 09 September 2014 - 05:21 PM.

[DocBach]

Empyrus, on 09 September 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

MASC could do something else... like increase turning and aiming speed, at the expense of extra heat or something?

This, or not include the super fast lights that have it that would break the game. There are some larger mechs that have masc (executioner) comes to mind that would be pretty unique additions to the game. 95 ton jump capable mech running 90kpj with masc and speed tweak?

[Catalinasgrace]

Ok someone answer this for me please, and I ask simply because I do not know so don't take me as a troll...

The Flea: it is smaller than the locust right, but is suppose to hit over 200kph? Lets say that they went ahead with requests to put it in game. What purpose/role would it fill in game without MASC? Why I ask is this... If it is smaller and doesn't carry that much firepower why would you want to bring one? If our maps were very large and we needed really fast scouts to get out there and recon the battlefield then I could see it. But as it stands now other lights would be the same speed and they carry a lot more firepower.

Now, don't get me wrong here. The more mechs the better for certain, but I was just curious as to what you guys think the benefit would be of bringing a flea to the battle if it did not have it's main benefit of higher speeds...

As for all the other mechs that you guys listed that are heavier mechs, and those that I do not know. I'm all for bringing them in game without MASC until the day comes that PGI can work out the issues.

[Murphy7]

Empyrus, on 09 September 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

MASC could do something else... like increase turning and aiming speed, at the expense of extra heat or something?

Give it a fuel bar similar to Jump Jets, and allow the mech to run 10% faster while the fuel is in place, and then the fuel builds back up again. No failure criterion, but do not allow MASC functionality once a leg has been lost.

I really do not see the MASC failure condition having any use or place in the MW:O game, as the permanent or even temporary immobilization would be a very swift death sentence. MASC becomes an opportunity for speed without the same tonnage investment in engines at the cost of the speed being temporary rather than constant.

[Dracol]

I wouldn't mind a non-canon function for Masc. Instead of a direct speed boost, double the agility while its engaged. Super quick turns, acceleration / deceleration improved. During its use, it continually produces heat.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

MASC needs to be a toggle that when toggled on or off has a 15% chance of powering you down. While active you should steadily build heat as if you were standing in the lava on Terra Therma. It would be a useful tool for sprinting, and not an I-WIN button for server breaking speeds.

[Dracol]

Murphy7, on 10 September 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

MASC becomes an opportunity for speed without the same tonnage investment in engines at the cost of the speed being temporary rather than constant. It would have to increment up to that rating to prevent macros from just flicking it on and off quickly to avoid the heat penalty.

Reading this gave me an idea. For the duration that MASC is engaged, it increases the engine rating by a set amount while producing extra heat BUT mechs are still restricted to max engine size.

Example: Your mech chassis has a hard engine limit of 250. You equip a MASC system and a 200 rating engine (which would work out to be less tonnage than a 250)

In game, you engage MASC and you are now performing at the same level as a 250 equipped mech. Faster and more Agile. But at the same time you are taking on Heat.

This solution would be a work around the speed cap at the cost of restricting it to slower mechs. It does not solve the super fast mechs that come with it equipped though ;(

Edited by Dracol, 10 September 2014 - 08:38 AM.

[Murphy7]

lockwoodx, on 10 September 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

MASC needs to be a toggle that when toggled on or off has a 15% chance of powering you down. While active you should steadily build heat as if you were standing in the lava on Terra Therma. It would be a useful tool for sprinting, and not an I-WIN button for server breaking speeds.

No - I appreciate some of your concern (too fast for hitreg) but the penalty is too severe. If mobility is life, immobility as a fail mode is brutal. I'd rather tone down the benefit than offer too punitive a failure condition.

[wanderer]

Or, you know- they could simply not put in any chassis that would go 200+ with MASC engaged.

There's heavier designs that would never trigger this kph limit on the engine. Put those in. It'll be disappointing for the GOTTA GO FASTEST crowd, but such is life.

And we can simply have overabused MASC inflict leg internal damage, at least until they properly add actuator crits.

Edited by wanderer, 10 September 2014 - 08:52 AM.

[KamikazeRat]

I had intended for this thread to be a little petition of sorts for adding mechs with masc without the functionality and a little bit of discussion about masc itself. but it seems to have derailed rather quickly into "make masc work" which they already have working, it just breaks their netcode. And that they would get back to working on masc later. But for now they could add mechs, because that's a different department.

So I'll ask again add mechs minus masc or wait for those chassis until masc is perfected.

Continue with both conversations, I do sort if like where the making masc work thing is going, but I wanted some feedback on the first thought too.

[TygerLily]

MASC as big, equipable agility buff would be really cool. Especially if it has a slot like ECM...So you could grant it to certain classes, chassis and/or specific variants to buff them.

I vote:
all Lights,

most Mediums (all but Hunchy and Shadow Hawk, and Stormcrows. These are the brawliest and don't necessarily need it due to their nature,

a few heavies (Dragons, Quickdraws, Thunderbolts, Summoners)

very few assaults. At first I peg Victors, Battlemasters, and Highlanders. Although VTR and HGN are great already, it fits their playstyle and purpose. I would be all for tossing this out and instead buffing the "weaker" Assaults and making it Awesomes and Battlemasters.

Also for what it's worth, the TT rules according to Sarna:
"For Inner Sphere 'Mechs, MASC takes up a number of critical spots equal to a 'Mech's tonnage divided by 20, rounded up, and an equal tonnage. For Clan 'Mechs, MASC takes up a number of critical spots equal to a 'Mech's tonnage divided by 25, rounded up, and an equal tonnage."

Maybe when toggled on it allows jump jet accelerations x50%, torso turn speed and angle x20%, the equivalent of the Hill Climb module (the module then stacks and grants x2 bonus).

You toggle on and for 15 seconds it grants these benefits, between 15 and 29 seconds damage is ramped up to the legs, at 30 seconds a Mech can only move at 40kph (same speed as when you're legged) until the MASC is recharged.

Recharge is two times however long you used it.

Damage can almost literally be cut/paste from fall damage:

How Fall Damage MASC damage Triggers:

In order for MASC damage to trigger, the following conditions must be true:

• The 'Mech has been using MASC for a 15 second minimum.

How much damage is determined by the time used and the weight class of the 'Mech.

• Light 'Mechs = (Internal Structure Health * 1.9) * 0.04
  
• Medium 'Mechs = (Internal Structure Health * 1.9) * 0.03
  
• Heavy 'Mechs = (Internal Structure Health * 1.9) * 0.035
  
• Assault 'Mechs = (Internal Structure Health * 1.9) * 0.04

[TygerLily]

KamikazeRat, on 10 September 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

it seems to have derailed rather quickly into "make masc work" which they already have working, it just breaks their netcode. And that they would get back to working on masc later. But for now they could add mechs, because that's a different department.

So I'll ask again add mechs minus masc or wait for those chassis until masc is perfected.

Oh, yea...yes!! Bring'm on!

There's plenty of handwaving already (which I'm fine with) from rolling-back-the-clock-to-before-certain-variants-we-already-have-are-supposed-to-exist", to Clans fighting WITH Inner Sphere, to plenty of other things...

I wouldn't want a place holder like CC but I think since our Mech's are completely customizable anyway I think arguing that a Mech being off limits due to such-and-such is silly.

Edited by TygerLily, 10 September 2014 - 09:35 AM.

[VanillaG]

Simply solution for the game breaking mechs is put in a hard limit for top speed. You can put in engine X or engine Y with MASC where Y is always a smaller engine than X. It allows the other mechs that do not hit the limit to enter the game and puts a limit to prevent issues for mech that could be modded from breaking the limit. For stock mechs that break the limit, remove the MASC and give them bigger engines to compensate for the loss of MASC or some other type of enhancement to use use the remaining space/weight if they are already at the top speed limit.

[TygerLily]

VanillaG, on 10 September 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

Simply solution for the game breaking mechs is put in a hard limit for top speed. You can put in engine X or engine Y with MASC where Y is always a smaller engine than X. It allows the other mechs that do not hit the limit to enter the game and puts a limit to prevent issues for mech that could be modded from breaking the limit.

I think this kind of idea works but it really only benefits Heavies and Assaults which, IMO, aren't the classes that need help. With the current game modes, raw damage dealing and soak are generally the most important. If you bring that damage up in speed then it further degrades the purpose (or role) of Lights and Mediums.

[STEF_]

TygerLily, on 10 September 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

MASC as big, equipable agility buff would be really cool. Especially if it has a slot like ECM...So you could grant it to certain classes, chassis and/or specific variants to buff them.

I vote:
all Lights,

most Mediums (all but Hunchy and Shadow Hawk, and Stormcrows. These are the brawliest and don't necessarily need it due to their nature,

a few heavies (Dragons, Quickdraws, Thunderbolts, Summoners)

very few assaults. At first I peg Victors, Battlemasters, and Highlanders. Although VTR and HGN are great already, it fits their playstyle and purpose. I would be all for tossing this out and instead buffing the "weaker" Assaults and making it Awesomes and Battlemasters.

Also for what it's worth, the TT rules according to Sarna:
"For Inner Sphere 'Mechs, MASC takes up a number of critical spots equal to a 'Mech's tonnage divided by 20, rounded up, and an equal tonnage. For Clan 'Mechs, MASC takes up a number of critical spots equal to a 'Mech's tonnage divided by 25, rounded up, and an equal tonnage."

Maybe when toggled on it allows jump jet accelerations x50%, torso turn speed and angle x20%, the equivalent of the Hill Climb module (the module then stacks and grants x2 bonus).

You toggle on and for 15 seconds it grants these benefits, between 15 and 29 seconds damage is ramped up to the legs, at 30 seconds a Mech can only move at 40kph (same speed as when you're legged) until the MASC is recharged.

Recharge is two times however long you used it.

Damage can almost literally be cut/paste from fall damage:

How Fall Damage MASC damage Triggers:

In order for MASC damage to trigger, the following conditions must be true:

• The 'Mech has been using MASC for a 15 second minimum.

How much damage is determined by the time used and the weight class of the 'Mech.

• Light 'Mechs = (Internal Structure Health * 1.9) * 0.04
  
• Medium 'Mechs = (Internal Structure Health * 1.9) * 0.03
  
• Heavy 'Mechs = (Internal Structure Health * 1.9) * 0.035
  
• Assault 'Mechs = (Internal Structure Health * 1.9) * 0.04

Totally agree.
We must have MASC, otherwise we can never get very important mechs.

We already have a lot of divergent situations/weapons/equipment from TT rules, so I think a MASC as you planned it would be fine.
And, without double speed, a 10% more speed it would be fine too.

We already had MASC in mw2/mw3/mw4... and here not? :/

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 10 September 2014 - 09:33 AM.

[Dracol]

TygerLily, on 10 September 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

Maybe when toggled on it allows jump jet accelerations x50%, torso turn speed and angle x20%, the equivalent of the Hill Climb module (the module then stacks and grants x2 bonus).

Making Hill Climbing easier with MASC would be Awesome! Would give land bound mechs an option to be more competitive on hill maps like canyon.