40 replies to this topic

[FDJustin]

El Bandito, on 10 September 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

Hey, anything works in pugs. A team has no right to complain about LRMs, if they did not bring any AMS.

That said, AMS Awareness Thursday is tomorrow. Gonna bust out my 5S again.

With an AMS toggle, I might have to start using them.

PPC's can hit moving targets. You just need to better predict them. Either firing before they come out of cover, or choosing those that aren't actively dodging you, and leading them. You can actually "dodge" them within 400 meters... But that point you're not dodging the projectile, you're dodging the barrel.

"I don't think LRMs are overpowered, much too weak actually" They're not too weak. It's indirect fire, and many, many shots can be made. Strong, easily spammed, highly tracking missiles are a terrible thing. Front Mission Evolved, when I played it, had those and it was clearly the win button.
Missiles are very hard to balance. If you can spam them (you can) or replenish them (You can't, in current modes) they have to remain individually weak or they make the game suck.

[Revis Volek]

Lightfoot, on 10 September 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

You just bring more ammo and drain their AMS. Nobody brings alot of AMS ammo.

Cya all later. My LRMs are calling.



.

Again....how do you know what EVERYBODY does....i love how everyone is a psychic on these forums. On a dual AMS mech less then 2-3 tons is worthless (IS) and my Triple AMS kit fox carries 3 tons (6000 rounds). So tell me some more what everyone does and does not? There are plenty of counters to LRMS....Radar Derp, ECM, and the totally over powered item you can find on every map called "COVER".

LRM's are stupid weak and outside of the cockpit shake the clans get from them kinda silly compared to the direct fire most mechs can carry. Should be for support mechs not guys standing alone waiting for a light to come rip their back open.

[Mercules]

Lightfoot, on 10 September 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

Nobody brings alot of AMS ammo.

Tell that to my 3 AMS/ECM Kitfox.

[FDJustin]

I used to bring dual AMS, 2. 5 - 3 tons of ammo on my Firestarter. It didn't take long for that to run out at all.

[Ngamok]

Mercules, on 10 September 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

Tell that to my 3 AMS/ECM Kitfox.

With 4 tons of ammo ( 8000 rounds )!

[Bishop Steiner]

counter to LRMs:

ECM
AMS
Cover
Target Deprivation Module
Aggressive tactics
Light Mechs (especially Jenners and Firestarters)

Counter-Weapons for LRMS:
Ac2
Ac5
C-AC2
C-AC5
C-AC10
C-UAC2
UAC5 /C-UAC5
C-UAC10
LB-x2
LB-x5
LB-x10 /C-LB-10x
Gauss (yes Lightfoot, Gauss is still very effective, hence why the whole MetaWhale exists, along with lots of GaussJagers and Phracts)
IS-ER LArge Laser
IS PPC and ER PPC (they are not as efffective, but they still make them duck, which breaks lock, usually)
C-ERPPC
C-ERLLaser
C-LPLaser

and

LRMs (your own)

Seems like plenty of counters, to me.

Also, yes, PPCs and AC10s have pretty slow projectiles. And yet they are still 4x faster than LRMs.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 September 2014 - 06:49 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mercules, on 10 September 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

Tell that to my 3 AMS/ECM Kitfox.

Ngamok, on 10 September 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

With 4 tons of ammo ( 8000 rounds )!

That's a lot of AMS tonnage man!

[Revis Volek]

FDJustin, on 10 September 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

I used to bring dual AMS, 2. 5 - 3 tons of ammo on my Firestarter. It didn't take long for that to run out at all.

With the added toggle, once you find cover you can turn it off as to conserve ammo while you hide. Also THANK YOU because i am so tried of wasting it all in the basement on HPG for no reason.

[FDJustin]

DarthRevis, on 10 September 2014 - 06:41 AM, said:

With the added toggle, once you find cover you can turn it off as to conserve ammo while you hide. Also THANK YOU because i am so tried of wasting it all in the basement on HPG for no reason.

Yep. And I could actually make approaches without throwing up little yellow indicators, too! But in a lot of ways, I like just hanging out with the team when I use them, letting them run down, then moving in since the fight should actually be starting at around that point.

[Mercules]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 September 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

That's a lot of AMS tonnage man!

I just looked... 4.5.

[Ngamok]

Mercules, on 10 September 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

I just looked... 4.5.

I've gotten down to under 1500 rounds left before on maps like Caustic. AMS Range + Overload

Edited by Ngamok, 10 September 2014 - 07:08 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

I agree with the premise that LRMs don't have a fairly good counter WEAPON. There's counter equipment, but in recent experience when bringing dakka(UAC/5s paired with 2s) to bear on LRM boats.... their screen shake always wins and I get smoked. You can't even blind them with the ranged tools provided unless you've got lrms of your own. It's kinda stupid, and not in a good way.

[Scurry]

lockwoodx, on 10 September 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

I agree with the premise that LRMs don't have a fairly good counter WEAPON. There's counter equipment, but in recent experience when bringing dakka(UAC/5s paired with 2s) to bear on LRM boats.... their screen shake always wins and I get smoked. You can't even blind them with the ranged tools provided unless you've got lrms of your own. It's kinda stupid, and not in a good way.

Well, yeah, arguably, they don't have a good counter weapon - but that's in their optimal range bracket.

Bringing dakka? You'll murder them in close range, they'll murder you when in the open at long range. Use the counter-equipment available so that you can make your weapons effective. That's the way to work.

Not to mention, why would one even try to blind them when you have cover on most maps? Want to blind an LRM boat? ECM's the best tool. Not to mention no other weapon in the game has something that directly mitigates damage

You know, one could easily complain that within 90m, SRMs with Autocannons have no counter weapon. All weapons can be strong within certain range brackets - and that's how they can be balanced.

Edited by Scurry, 10 September 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Scurry, on 10 September 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

Well, yeah, arguably, they don't have a good counter weapon - but that's in their optimal range bracket.

Bringing dakka? You'll murder them in close range, they'll murder you when in the open at long range. Use the counter-equipment available so that you can make your weapons effective. That's the way to work.

Not to mention, why would one even try to blind them when they have cover on most maps? Want to blind an LRM boat? ECM's the best tool. Not to mention no other weapon in the game has something that directly mitigates damage

You know, one could easily complain that within 90m, SRMs with Autocannons have no counter weapon. All weapons can be strong within certain range brackets - and that's how they can be balanced.

screen shakes, reticle, I believe, does not. Good players keep shooting.

[wanderer]

Quote

The problem with LRMs is that every mech has a C3 master and slave for free. Mechs are not supposed to be able to share targets without C3 equipment which costs tonnage and space.

This is the most parroted and utterly incorrect statement I see about LRM us in MWO to date.

A flippin' infantryman with a walkie-talkie in tabletop Battletech can spot for LRM fire. One. Walkie-talkie. A Battlemech spotting for LRM fire is actually vastly overqualified for the task. Nor does spotting prevent the spotter from firing. And most certainly does one unit having LOS make the other friendly units aware of the location of said enemy in tabletop. Which is what happen in MWO. You have sensors on it- even MK1 Eyeballs and can communicate, I know where it is and you can spot for my indirect weapons fire (LRMs in MWO, but also other weapons like mortars in TT).

C3 means "I can shoot you with my guns like I was looking through the screen of the guy at 300m, not my own at 900m". MWO 'Mechs have no such capacity. My LRMs do not magically gain accuracy or triple their speed to act as if they were fired from a third of their range if I am at 900m and my spotter at 300m.

If you're going to complain, at least do it about something that isn't false.

[wanderer]

Quote

That's a lot of AMS tonnage man!

With a triple AMS mount, AMS overload + range module it is quite possible to burn through 4 tons of ammo, especially on LRM-heavy maps like Caustic. I've seen support KFX's with 5.

Then again, we'd normally give most triple mounted ballistic weapons 4-5 tons without blinking, save MGs.

[sabujo]

Just install Radar Derp, know how to move from cover to cover, be aware of enemy LOS, and you are good to go. If you add ECM over it, you're pratically shielded against lurms.

The only exception to the this is when you are NARCed, TAGged or spoted by a UAV, and that's due to the fact that you don't know immediatly you are in that condition.

[CDLord HHGD]

Oh wait, you're serious

Edit: My interwebz-fu is weak today....

Edited by cdlord, 10 September 2014 - 10:24 AM.

[Bilbo]

lockwoodx, on 10 September 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

I agree with the premise that LRMs don't have a fairly good counter WEAPON. There's counter equipment, but in recent experience when bringing dakka(UAC/5s paired with 2s) to bear on LRM boats.... their screen shake always wins and I get smoked. You can't even blind them with the ranged tools provided unless you've got lrms of your own. It's kinda stupid, and not in a good way.

That's why I kill LRM boats up close. Nothing gets a lurmer facing another direction like an AC/20 to the face.

[Bill Lumbar]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 September 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

That's a lot of AMS tonnage man!

EarthQaukeJohnson would be proud to have you man! :-)