20 replies to this topic

[Tiger Shark]

As a long time BattleTech fan (Table top, BattleTech Centers, games, books) and Founder, Phoenix, Clan Pack buyer, I really hope all the turmoil with the PGI/IGP split and Reddit Transverse works out for the best. Why? I want BattleTech to be a viable IP, be successful, and that we don't have to wait another 12 years for another title.
Many of are here for the IP, for nostalgia, and the fun we have had since Closed Beta. We went through the growing pains of balancing weapons, getting things translated from table top to MMO.
I really think the next 3-6 months will be crucial for PGI to get its core customers back, and continue to make the title not just viable, but thrive. PGI needs to do it to compete for the same nostalgia dollars with Chris Roberts (I have also bought in) and Elite.
Top 5 in the next 3-6 months that will help get the core play base excited and continue to invest / pay for MWO:
1. Community warfare, been here many times, 3rd time's the charm.
2. Role warfare (life is hard for a light and medium pilot).
3. Fix pin point damage (root of all the ghost heat and meta issues).
4. Affordable mechs, charge BattleTech miniature prices $5-$10, not $35.
5. Built in VOIP, it is a team game after all.

[MarineTech]

I'm going to start off by saying I do really enjoy MWO. I was introduced into the Battletech universe in 1986, have played most of the iterations of the TT games and on computer, and have enjoyed myself.

For the longest time since starting here, I've always assumed that the bulk of the vitriol against PGI was just the run of the mill butthurt you find in any game like this where it doesn't go exactly as a person wants it down to the tiniest details. Considering the number of Founders coming back and posting since the whole Transverse thing started, I've seriously reconsidered my viewpoint. Having worked in IT for 16 years, I've seen development processes go awry, and this whole thing is seriously giving me a sinking feeling.

I think MWO still can become a GREAT game, not just a good one. PGI needs to step up to the plate and admit that mistakes were made. We are human, it happens. We make them, we apologize and learn from them, and we move forward.

My opinion is that PGI needs to focus on the core of the game.

- Fix the lag/disco/rubberbanding issues as their first priority. Nobody wants to play if they keep timing out.
- Make certain people are hitting what they're shooting at. Again, nobody wants to constantly unload their weapons into an enemy and watch nothing happen.
- For the remaining issues and features, listen to your player base and community and see how they want things to be. I cannot believe the issue actually went as far as it has.

[The Wakelord]

Tiger Shark, on 11 September 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

4. Affordable mechs, charge BattleTech miniature prices $5-$10, not $35.

Is this taking inflation into account?

[Blakkstar]

Yeah, the next few months will be make or break for this game. IGP is out of the picture (meaning no more excuses), and CW needs to be functional and compelling. I largely agree with the OP except for a couple variations:

2. Battletech doesn't really have "role based warfare". There should be some advantage to rolling Lights and Mediums though. First off should be making mediums the right size instead of larger than assaults. There should be more financial bonuses for spotting, and target lock range range and speed should be more proportional to mech size. (Think signature radius from EVE)

3. There should be considerably more reticule sway involved in moving, especially at top speed or jumping. Making sway proportional to movement would give people incentive to use throttle settings (creating skill-based multitasking), and reward skill by making it harder to land shots without using an RNG system. That would reduce damage concentration, and thus the need for ghost heat (and any other artificial changes to the weapons system).

4. Paint and camo is the only thing I feel is drastically overpriced. Non-Hero Mechs are a bit steep, but not terribly out of line.

5. Public VoIP usually creates more problems than it solves. This game to its credit has a functional order system. I'd like to see people actually use it. ANy organized team is going to use Teamspeak anyways, so why add traffic to and from the servers?

[RussianWolf]

Blakkstar, on 11 September 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

3. There should be considerably more reticule sway involved in moving, especially at top speed or jumping. Making sway proportional to movement would give people incentive to use throttle settings (creating skill-based multitasking), and reward skill by making it harder to land shots without using an RNG system. That would reduce damage concentration, and thus the need for ghost heat (and any other artificial changes to the weapons system).

Sounds like this would hurt the lights and mediums more than the heavy and assaults. Wrong place to put the penalty in my opinion. Where you want more sway is the slower mechs that are boating AC40s, dual/triple gauss and other FLD weps.

[Cyberiad]

Blackstar, I don't think spotting should ever have been a thing. It's part of the reason why LRMs were OP and had to be nerfed into the ground. Also in Battltech lore and in MW3, mechs required the C3 slave and master equipment to be mounted on the mech, taking up space and tonnage in order to share targetting info. In MWO every mech gets both for free. Their introduction of target spotting was their failed attempt at trying to implement role warfare. Lights and mediums should be valued for their simpler advantages instead of complicated things that PGI might try to jam into the game for the sake of "role warfare", a meaningless buzzword that causes more harm than good. Those advantages are being cheap and fast. I don't know how make these traits a major advantage in MWO but I do know that in MW4 lights and mediums were important since you could only afford those mechs early in the game. This might also play a role in MWO as new players might only be able to afford to buy lights and mediums at first. MW4 also had an upkeep system where it would cost you more cbills to keep larger mechs. I'm not saying that this would be a good idea for MWO but perhaps something like a c-bill reward bonus for lights and mediums might be a good idea. Also in MW4, there were some missions that were impossible to beat unless you used lights and mediums that were fast enough to respond and move around to protect buildings. If MWO had missions like these then it would make lights and mediums meaningful and fun to play.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tiger Shark, on 11 September 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

As a long time BattleTech fan (Table top, BattleTech Centers, games, books) and Founder, Phoenix, Clan Pack buyer, I really hope all the turmoil with the PGI/IGP split and Reddit Transverse works out for the best. Why? I want BattleTech to be a viable IP, be successful, and that we don't have to wait another 12 years for another title.
Many of are here for the IP, for nostalgia, and the fun we have had since Closed Beta. We went through the growing pains of balancing weapons, getting things translated from table top to MMO.
I really think the next 3-6 months will be crucial for PGI to get its core customers back, and continue to make the title not just viable, but thrive. PGI needs to do it to compete for the same nostalgia dollars with Chris Roberts (I have also bought in) and Elite.
Top 5 in the next 3-6 months that will help get the core play base excited and continue to invest / pay for MWO:
1. Community warfare, been here many times, 3rd time's the charm.
2. Role warfare (life is hard for a light and medium pilot).
3. Fix pin point damage (root of all the ghost heat and meta issues).
4. Affordable mechs, charge BattleTech miniature prices $5-$10, not $35.
5. Built in VOIP, it is a team game after all.

To be fair, IWM now sells Minis for $8-$15 And this Limited Edition is $25! And that is the most expensive I found. They cost that much due to material costs AND the artists pay...

How much do Pixels cost per pound?

Weren't you also a FanPro Commando with me?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 11 September 2014 - 06:09 AM.

[Blakkstar]

RussianWolf, on 11 September 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

Sounds like this would hurt the lights and mediums more than the heavy and assaults. Wrong place to put the penalty in my opinion. Where you want more sway is the slower mechs that are boating AC40s, dual/triple gauss and other FLD weps.

Not necessarily. Simply make the sway proportional to weight class. A Locust gets a little bounce, while an Atlas running at top speed will sway back and forth like a skyscraper. Lights and mediums are designed for mobility after all.

[SaltBeef]

I support a Single Player Game 100% it just supplements in potential revenues for PGI . Opens up single players to move into the online universe and adds to ongoing SAGA of Battletech. A win win.
Most previous title MW game players will flock to buy it.
That's 50 or 60 bucks from a larger group than from selling a mech package to factions alone.
Even guys who have left MWO will buy it on the side.

Edited by SaltBeef, 11 September 2014 - 06:24 AM.

[Blakkstar]

SiliconLife, on 11 September 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

Blackstar, I don't think spotting should ever have been a thing. /snip

Yes and no. Indirect LRM spotting has always been a thing in Battletech, even before C3 computers. I don't have a problem with spotting, and it creates both a monetary and team incentive for lights to scout. The spotting system could use some changes though, like awarding a bonus the first time an enemy mech is spotted and giving the spotter a bigger percentage for indirect LRM targeting.

Repair costs is a whole different can of worms, and controversial. Reimplementing them would involve major changes to the game economy.

I agree completely that new light-friendly maps and game modes are a sorely needed addition to the game.

[990Dreams]

Tiger Shark, on 11 September 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

Top 5 in the next 3-6 months that will help get the core play base excited and continue to invest / pay for MWO:
1. Community warfare, been here many times, 3rd time's the charm.
2. Role warfare (life is hard for a light and medium pilot).
3. Fix pin point damage (root of all the ghost heat and meta issues).
4. Affordable mechs, charge BattleTech miniature prices $5-$10, not $35.
5. Built in VOIP, it is a team game after all.

• Sure
  
• Sure
  
• Define better please?
  
• PGI is a free to play company. Do you want a game developed or do you want cheap Mechs?
  
• Definite yes
  
• Also, a client side word filter for chat and a mute option for VOIP and chat.

[Tiger Shark]

So miniatures are a little bit more, $8-$15 per MC hero mech then. I would also buy more colors etc if they were cheaper etc. Micro-transactions.
For pin point, tons of good ideas out there like targeting computer capacity and convergence, weight and speed reticle movement etc...
I think the big thing here is that PGI makes progress, show the community that they care about the IP, the game itself, and the players. Probably not going to be perfect balanced the first time around, and that's ok. Look at all the people that stuck with closed beta.
PGI need to up their commitment and double down in MWO now that Elite and Star Citizen heading closer to beta, and trust me, the target audience is the same. Those of us who grew up with BattleTech also grew up with Wing Commander, and we are now old enough to have more disposable income (though less time) to spend on those games. If I saved up a month of allowance to buy MechWarrior2 back in 1995, imagine the allowance I have now. If Larry Holland does a X-Wing KickStarter or Tim Schafer wants to re-do Day of the Tentacle, I will be buying the gold package for sure. PGI need to realize that.

[VanillaG]

RussianWolf, on 11 September 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

Sounds like this would hurt the lights and mediums more than the heavy and assaults. Wrong place to put the penalty in my opinion. Where you want more sway is the slower mechs that are boating AC40s, dual/triple gauss and other FLD weps.

The sway would be based on the percentage of the throttle you are using, not a speed band across all mechs. When you look at TT rules you have to hit modifiers based on your movement, 0 for standing still, 1 for walking, 2 for running, and 3 for jumping. You could use the JJ reticle movement code and scale it based on your throttle. If you are below 70% throttle you get some movement, above that you get more movement, and if you jump you get the worst amount of movement

Edited by VanillaG, 11 September 2014 - 06:42 AM.

[Mercules]

Blakkstar, on 11 September 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

2. Battletech doesn't really have "role based warfare". There should be some advantage to rolling Lights and Mediums though. First off should be making mediums the right size instead of larger than assaults. There should be more financial bonuses for spotting, and target lock range range and speed should be more proportional to mech size. (Think signature radius from EVE)

Um... What? Striker lights, Scouting Lights/Mediums, Brawling Mediums, Anti-Aircraft Support Jaggers/Rifleman, LRM specific mechs like Archers/Longbow/Tebuchet/Catapult, and so many others.

[girl on fire]

DavidHurricane, on 11 September 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

• Sure
  
• Sure
  
• Define better please?
  
• PGI is a free to play company. Do you want a game developed or do you want cheap Mechs?
  
• Definite yes
  
• Also, a client side word filter for chat and a mute option for VOIP and chat.

So far all they've been doing is making expensive mechs and no game... So...

[Darwins Dog]

Tiger Shark, on 11 September 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

..snip...
Top 5 in the next 3-6 months that will help get the core play base excited and continue to invest / pay for MWO:
1. Community warfare, been here many times, 3rd time's the charm.
2. Role warfare (life is hard for a light and medium pilot).
3. Fix pin point damage (root of all the ghost heat and meta issues).
4. Affordable mechs, charge BattleTech miniature prices $5-$10, not $35.
5. Built in VOIP, it is a team game after all.

1. With you 100% on that one. CW needs to be solid (not necessarily perfect) and on time to avoid major upset for the fans.
2. I would love to see more on this as well. The module system as is just doesn't give the feel of playing a role.
3. I've gotten used to this honestly. I wouldn't mind some sort of fix here, but not one of my personal priorities
4. I have to disagree with you there. I find the mech prices to be very reasonable (right on par with other similar titles). I see a fair number of Boar's heads out there, so I would say that the prices are where they should be. There are also enough sales that if you can wait, you rarely have to pay full price.
5. I'd rather see them invest in hosting TS3, and Vent servers, instead of diverting resources to this. I know that in-game would be good (with a mute button for problem players of course), but there are enough good third party options that I see this as a lower priority.

I would like to see the resources devoted to stabilizing the game, fixing hit registration, etc. Finishing the variable geometry for the remaining IS mechs too. Consistency is important imo.

[Bront]

1) CW can't come soon enough. Hopefully it has all kinds of interesting and wonderful details, but I expect to be somewhat basic at first and roll out features slowly. I hope this doesn't cause people to leave because feature X didn't make it out initially.

2) Some role warfare would be nice. CW may help with that, but the big issue for mediums is that heavies and assaults are too agile AND mediums that aren't the Cicada, BJ, and maybe the Hunchie or Vindicator (Haven't seen many, but they don't look too large) are a little too big. Fix that a bit, and mediums can shine a bit more.

3) Front-Loaded Pin-Point damage is an issue, but it's not an easy one to solve. Personally, I'd love them to cut the damage of the IS ACs in half and double their fire rate (cut the cool down in half). So, the AC20 could fire 14 10 hit shots rather than 7 20. At least do this with the Gauss, and get rid of that stupid charge up. Honestly, while this is an issue, it's much less of one than it used to be (other than the Gauss)

4) Non-Hero mechs are priced a bit high. Hero mechs are priced a bit high as well (well, the heavy and assault ones are at least). Camo and paint are the real crime. Cut the prices of those in half before sales, and you'll likely sell a lot more. Mech-bays are at least pretty reasonable, as is premium time.

5) No, VOIP will only overload the servers, and most folks will still use their own private Teamspeak. I'd rather they start up their own TS public server (not that they need to, NGNG has one, as do several other people).

All in all, yes, what they do over the next 6 months will make a big difference. I've seen some positive strides over the past year, and more the past 3 months. I just hope they keep them up.

[Lexx]

We can blame World of Tanks for the prices of hero mechs. That's who Russ said they were basing MWO's free to play model on.
He even said that compared to WoT, our mechs are cheap.

Speaking of miniatures, they should make tabletop game sized miniatures using the MWO models. I think some players would buy those. I'd love to have some minis of my favorite mechs sitting on my desk next to my monitor when I play.

[sokitumi]

DavidHurricane, on 11 September 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

• PGI is a free to play company. Do you want a game developed or do you want cheap Mechs?

Do you not understand economies of scale? Or buy-in commitment?

[RussianWolf]

Bront, on 11 September 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

5) No, VOIP will only overload the servers, and most folks will still use their own private Teamspeak. I'd rather they start up their own TS public server (not that they need to, NGNG has one, as do several other people).

There simply has to be an IN GAME way for everyone on a team (12 people ) to get onto a channel together in a reasonable time. If that is "click this button to instantly link to the TS server on channel 1576865", fine. But it has to be IN GAME.