167 replies to this topic

[IllCaesar]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 September 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

No. Founders did not buy 4 Pillars.

We bought, up to 4 mechs, premium time, forum badges, and our name in the credits. We were pitched that the end goal of the game was to provide those 4 pillars, but in no way did we enter a contract for those. This kind of logic is part of what keeps the entitlement frenzy going.

With all due respect, without the Founders, there would've been no MWO. Thats why they're called Founders. They're the crowdfunders. You're right that things like ghost heat, 3PV, Gauss Rifle charge, etc should've been expected. Game needs to be balanced, after all. I bought into the Phoenix Package expecting buffs and debuffs to occur on the chassis included in it. I didn't crowdfund for any features that gave bonsses tacked on the more you donate (like Kickstarter, for example), but rather, I bought a collection of Mechs. To my knowledge, Clanners got what they were promised. Meanwhile, the Founder's program, dubbed "Operation Inception" has been credited as funding the core development of the game.

"The Founders are helping us fund, develop and support the game in order to deliver the best online gaming experience,"

http://www.escapistm...ats-Kickstarter

""We've raised minimal investment funds to build a viable product for each of our games. We then launch it [in beta] and use that minimum viable product to start generating an income stream."

http://www.gamasutra...Kickstarter.php

Of course, for that last point, there's no way that MWO had enough to support the game without Founders payment. Russ said in the recent Town Hall Meeting that it costs "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month to maintain and develop the game. So, bare minimum, $200,000 a month, out of $5,000,000, and even with being generous, they've already spent all of their Founder's funding. Now even assuming that they had money beforehand, it wouldn't have been enough that they could fund the game long enough to develop CW (two and a half years) without dipping into Founder's money. They would've run dry before getting there, so yes, Founders did fund, at the very least, the pillar that still isn't even out yet.

Edited by MarsAtlas, 11 September 2014 - 12:58 PM.

[Bilbo]

MarsAtlas, on 11 September 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

With all due respect, without the Founders, there would've been no MWO. Thats why they're called Founders. They're the crowdfunders. You're right that things like ghost heat, 3PV, Gauss Rifle charge, etc should've been expected. Game needs to be balanced, after all. I bought into the Phoenix Package expecting buffs and debuffs to occur on the chassis included in it. I didn't crowdfund for any features that gave bonsses tacked on the more you donate (like Kickstarter, for example), but rather, I bought a collection of Mechs. To my knowledge, Clanners got what they were promised. Meanwhile, the Founder's program, dubbed "Operation Inception" has been credited as funding the core development of the game.

"The Founders are helping us fund, develop and support the game in order to deliver the best online gaming experience,"

http://www.escapistm...ats-Kickstarter

""We've raised minimal investment funds to build a viable product for each of our games. We then launch it [in beta] and use that minimum viable product to start generating an income stream."

http://www.gamasutra...Kickstarter.php

Of course, for that last point, there's no way that MWO had enough to support the game without Founders payment. Russ said in the recent Town Hall Meeting that it costs "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month to maintain and develop the game. So, bare minimum, $200,000 a month, out of $5,000,000, and even with being generous, they've already spent all of their Founder's funding. Now even assuming that they had money beforehand, it wouldn't have been enough that they could fund the game long enough to develop CW (two and a half years) without dipping into Founder's money. They would've run dry before getting there, so yes, Founders did fund, at the very least, the pillar that still isn't even out yet.

Until recently, the game had a publisher. It was in Closed Beta before Founder's packages were offered. I do not doubt that the founders helped with the continued development of the game, but it was originally funded by a publisher.

[FrDrake]

I play occasionally, but I voted with my wallet and will pay no real $ on clan mechs or anything else in this game until they deliver something I was told was going to be out in the fall of 2012.

I don't really care about a free shiny, I just want the game they said they were going to make. They do that, and I'll consider putting some more money into the game.

Until then I'll play a few matches a month like I've been doing or getting their free mechbays for playing.

[Bishop Steiner]

MarsAtlas, on 11 September 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

With all due respect, without the Founders, there would've been no MWO. Thats why they're called Founders. They're the crowdfunders. You're right that things like ghost heat, 3PV, Gauss Rifle charge, etc should've been expected. Game needs to be balanced, after all. I bought into the Phoenix Package expecting buffs and debuffs to occur on the chassis included in it. I didn't crowdfund for any features that gave bonsses tacked on the more you donate (like Kickstarter, for example), but rather, I bought a collection of Mechs. To my knowledge, Clanners got what they were promised. Meanwhile, the Founder's program, dubbed "Operation Inception" has been credited as funding the core development of the game.

"The Founders are helping us fund, develop and support the game in order to deliver the best online gaming experience,"

http://www.escapistm...ats-Kickstarter

""We've raised minimal investment funds to build a viable product for each of our games. We then launch it [in beta] and use that minimum viable product to start generating an income stream."

http://www.gamasutra...Kickstarter.php

Of course, for that last point, there's no way that MWO had enough to support the game without Founders payment. Russ said in the recent Town Hall Meeting that it costs "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month to maintain and develop the game. So, bare minimum, $200,000 a month, out of $5,000,000, and even with being generous, they've already spent all of their Founder's funding. Now even assuming that they had money beforehand, it wouldn't have been enough that they could fund the game long enough to develop CW (two and a half years) without dipping into Founder's money. They would've run dry before getting there, so yes, Founders did fund, at the very least, the pillar that still isn't even out yet.

Due respect or not, the Founders Pack was and is a set product that was paid for, and delivered. We are not stockholders in PGI for doing so. We did not "pay for 4 pillars". And as long as the meet their goal on Community Warfare, technically those 4 pillars will have been met. If people think buying some pack magically entitles them to decide when and how the game is made, they need to get over themselves.

[PhoenixFire55]

Nothing that PGI can do will make the lies and utter horsecrap thrown at us (not just founders, but everyone) somehow magically go away. It just isn't happening. Nothing they do or say will even bring the trust back. They will not make the game they promised to their founders, at the current state of affairs it simply is not possible.

[TB Freelancer]

TB Xiomburg, on 11 September 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

I don't know were your getting that they need to give everyone even more free stuff...I think that they have done a stellar job so far on this front.

Win 25 Matches - Ended: May 31st - get a free 3050 Holo

Assault And Conquer Challenge - Ended: June 14th - Get a bullet...for your 'Mech.

Operation 24 - Ended: October 1st - Get a free hanging item.

Christmas Wins - Ended: January 5th - Get a Free Christmas Tree.

Centurion Champion Personal Challenge - Ended: February 25th - Get a free 'Mech.

Win a Mech Bay Challenge - Ended: April 1st - Get a Free Mechbay.

Win an Unreleased Phoenix Mech Challenge - Ended: April 22nd - Another free Mech.

Win a Mech Bay Challenge Steiner Edition - Ended: August 11th - Another Free Mechbay!!!

Win a Mech Bay Challenge Marik Edition - Ended: August 19th - Another Free Mechbay!!

Path to Victory 10 - Ended: August 26th - Another Free Mechbay!!

Path to Victory 20 - Ended: August 26th - 7 Days Premium Time (for free).

Path to Victory 50 - Ended: August 26th - 6.5 Million cbills...free...

Lance Challenge Tier 1 - Ended: September 9th - 3 Days Premium Time...free

Lance Challenge Tier 2 - Ended: September 9th - Another fricking mechbay!

Lance Challenge Tier 3 - Ended: September 9th - Another 6.5 Million cbills...free...FOR FREEE!!!!

And of course there were the free mechs like that Centurion...and I vaguely remember a couple of others.

[Ngamok]

Asyres, on 11 September 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

I bought a product, and I got (and used) exactly what I payed for. Why should I get something else free?

I am in your boat as well. I have been happy with my HBK-4G(F) (high five cdlord and others). I still continue to play mine (played 3 games last night with it got 5 kills). I am still happily playing this game but not as much these past 5 weeks.

An apology to everything taking so long, sure. All I want is clear road maps on where we are headed from here on out. Even if it's once a month outlining what the next month will bring. I need something to show me that we are still moving forward. Something that lists the development and maybe input from the community. Even from players that start today because there will always be good input from someone with an extraordinary thought.

Most things you do in life have something you are working towards that you believe you can achieve. If you don't have a clear sight then you become disgruntled at whatever it is. After years of promises, this is what lots of the Founders have become.

[process]

I don't need freebies. I just want engaging, balanced gameplay.

[doKtor kALT]

Ghogiel, on 11 September 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

However, you have to realize that most of the people posting in that thread are goons sucking each other off, giving people like them free stuff won't make them not be {LT-MOB-25} suckers.

It seems that as long as this game is backed up by people like you, everything is fine i guess.

[Wales Grey]

I would like to point out, as a goon, that anyone who thinks that the outrage is even 50% goons needs to stop being dishonest/get informed.

[Ngamok]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 September 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

Well, I would not call the same 20 or so people posting and ranting over and over again a large number of Founders. There are some with legit complaints and concerns, but the method they are going about it, essentially drowning out all other voices with their repeated rants, accomplishes nothing and actually hurts their stance.

You will notice a shiny gold Founders tag under my name. I have played Battletech since 1987. Every iteration of MW Video game, save a few of the console offerings. Owned an army of over 1000 miniatures (Mostly Aerotech). I also have Overlord and Sabre tags, and my alt account, have the Masakari pkg (since I am a clanner on it).

I am, in others words, a huge fan of the IP. I too was caught up in the early enthusiasm of a "as close to TT version of MW as possible". I too have been disappointed many times by decisions made, directions chosen (Ghost Heat, the heat system in general, PP convergence ez-mode aiming with armlock crutch^tm, and sundry more). I was FURIOUS and led some of the Threadnaughts over 3pV, the dissolution of the GenDis forum in a ham handed attempt to quell the anger, and more.

And I also have learned to see it from perspectives other than my own, to accept the realities of business, need to make money, cost of doing certain features, and the like can screw the best meant plans. The "Blackout" of 2013, we will probably never know the whole story. And so to continue to dwell on it, when their actions since have not followed that trend is foolish.

And so I moved on. I learned the lesson which is, if you buy into or spend money on a game based on what they claim it will be, hope it will be or you think it will be in the future? You are an idiot. So I buy based on what it is. Or don't buy, as the case may be.

But one thing I do know, is that everything I have actually paid for, I have had delivered. No Mech Pack comes with promises entitling me to have say in how the game is made, or what the priorities should be. Simply put, the only thing I remotely feel PGI owes me? Nothing.

The people who have no say in this anymore? Simply and bluntly put? Everyone of them that I am aware of? More than had it coming, as was suffered for far longer than they should have been. Yup, that'll piss off some people. Tough. Some people have been pisisng me off with their rants, QQ, instigating, lies, innuendos and a plethora of other things, for 2 yrs. Reducing the overall toxicity level of the forums can only allow for better communication, and yes even of complaints. Better communication, and not being nannied by IGP can only result in a better product, overall.

And if I am wrong, well PGI has no shield to hide behind. Win, lose or draw, it's their party now. They'll either deliver, or they will crash and burn. But at least we will have a clearer picture of what is actually going on both ends without the constant thread derailment by some pissy wannabe forum anarchists with entitlement issues.

Well said Bishop.

[Corwin Maxwell]

PGI's PR division is equal to the PR division of Monsanto. There Marketing was well IGP nuff said. And like most backstabbing those wounds never really heal they just get less painful and more numb. But yes i agree with the OP this would be a start to a olive branch to the founders and most of the Phoenix players alike. Lets hope that now that PGI has sole ownership and say, that this game will get back on track and improve. Everybody wants this game to succeed after all. Those few that don't well there not fans of the IP or much of anything really.

[Hakija]

There have been only two decisions by devs that cheesed me of recently.

1: Faction locking mechs in CW. I get the reason for this, but I really wish they had said they were doing it before I spent the money on the a la cart clan mechs. My community plays for the FRR, and I'm not leaving my friends just to use shinier toys.

2: The reddit mess. I'm not getting any further into that here.

The thing is, I don't hold grudges. I'm not looking for a handout from the devs. I just want a fun game. Deliver that (and work a little on communication), and everything is forgiven.

This doesn't mean I'll be playing much, cause I'm frankly a little burned out right now, but I'll at least consider the matter over.

Edited by Hakiyah, 11 September 2014 - 01:41 PM.

[Malleus011]

Just linking this here, because it looks like Apnu noticed the same thing I did.

http://mwomercs.com/...an-open-letter/

Interesting that so many Founders don't seem to want anything in particular (though they'd take free stuff) - except perhaps an apology for things taking so long - but really want a finished CW module and a fun game. (IMHO, bumping the Founder 'mech C-Bill rate to match the Phoenix Champions and a Loyalty bonus would seem a bare minimum)

Perhaps if there's an easy take-away for PGI in all this, it is that there may be a segment of their customer base that's gone down the Exodus Road, that might be willing to return, if the gameplay gives them a good reason to.

[AlexEss]

While i echo some others in that i have nothing against getting free stuff...

I think it was said best in the Town meeting... Sometime you just have to accept that some customers are not good for the community. That no matter what you do they will remain a hostile negative effect.

If they can not come to the cross-road like a civil human being but have to be begged back.. Lured with something "substantial"... Perhaps it is for the best that they stay away.

So have to vote no for this. and i am one of them who took a gamble. But unlike the people the OP refers to i was realistic on what i would get... Seems like being a realistic pessimist worked out well.

[Gooner]

If PGI want to give away free stuff of course I would accept it. I've put the time in on various challenges to earn 2 free mechs, several free mech bays, and some free premium time. Getting free stuff is nice.

But I'm not one to ask for it or demand it.

If/when CW finally arrives, as long as its fun to play and fight in this persistant war, and there aren't any major bugs in the system, I'll be happy.

[IllCaesar]

Bilbo, on 11 September 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

Until recently, the game had a publisher. It was in Closed Beta before Founder's packages were offered. I do not doubt that the founders helped with the continued development of the game, but it was originally funded by a publisher.

Between the tendency for publishers to spend less the further into the development a game is, and the rumours of bankruptcy regarding IGP (their only remaining game is Mechwarrior Tactics, which has been without a developer all year, and hasn't been accessible for three weeks) I doubt that IGP has been giving any significant funding to PGI.

[buttmonkey]

Ghogiel, on 11 September 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

I'm a founder and giving me free stuff is always good. So I can't disagree with that part.

However, you have to realize that most of the people posting in that thread are goons sucking each other off, giving people like them free stuff won't make them not be {LT-MOB-25} suckers.

Just saying.

Yeah right. Because goons decided to put over a hundred dollars down on PGI before any game play was seen, just so they could come back 3 years later and post in that thread. OK Gotcha (Y).....

[Mazerius]

PhoenixFire55, on 11 September 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

Nothing that PGI can do will make the lies and utter horsecrap thrown at us (not just founders, but everyone) somehow magically go away. It just isn't happening. Nothing they do or say will even bring the trust back. They will not make the game they promised to their founders, at the current state of affairs it simply is not possible.

Not meaning to be harsh but if thats your stance why are you still here posting? Really, for your own health go find another game or something.

As for people still harping on 3pv... lol get over it, it rarely gets used, it gives away your position, and its a piss poor mode to pilot your mech in.

Having that yellow tag under my name doesnt entitle me to anything besides the 4 mechs I got, the premium time and the MC. I got what I paid for. Game development isnt as simple and straight foreward as a lot of folks are trying to claim, theres time/money/game engine restrictions/and in PGIs case a publisher to deal with as well(thankfully gone)

[CDLord HHGD]

I don't need an apology. Free stuff is nice (though as mentioned, I'd take a bonus boost to my FOunder's mechs to bring them in-line with others).

I've spent a lot of money here, more money on a F2P game than I did on other MMOs that aren't. Just don't fail. I can do the long haul if you can.