33 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

Selene Kirion, on 12 September 2014 - 04:08 AM, said:

You are really wrong with my post guys. I'm not crying. I'm just saying that this weapon is not working as it really would do. I assume that all Battlemechs are not reflecting the real amount of armor they normally has but if you double the armor then the weapons can't do the damage as normal.

That's the thing. I'm not talking about speed or wasting ammo shooting ghosts running around...i'm talking about a mech with 1 Ultra-20 standing in the mouth of a tunnel shooting a Shadow Hawk standing in front of him...The Shadow Hawk can't bear this damage, you can say what you want but this is not a normal thing.

I'm not crying. I'm not defending Clan over EI...I'm just saying that is impossible that an Ultra-20 can't destroy an Standing Shadow Hawk after bearing more than 2 shots of this weapon.

You are focused on the Summoner, focused on me firing Spiders or Kit Fox...that's not the problem cos i could be a good shooter or maybe the worst in the world but...if you hit a Spider with this weapon then say goodbye...this is the real danger of an Ultra-20 and the Advantage for aSpider is his Speed not his Armor...

Now, you can insult me all the time you want...play Battletech 25 years...and then play this game...something is not working right.

And of course i don't want disturb anyone with this...Some people like many things that no others like...thx for reading this at least.

Just so you know, even though armor was doubled. The fire rate on all the weapons is almost tripled. The IS AC 20 is actually an AC 60. Since it can fire 3 times in 10 seconds. These weapons were classed based on the total damage done in 10 seconds.

However, a Shadowhawk has approximately 64 points of armor and health total on it's side torso, if you have superhuman reflexes and accuracy, and you can land all your shots into that one side torso. Then it should take you no less than three full firings to kill that side torso.

[By the way: Are you sure no invisible walls were involved?]


As they stand, all ballistics are working almost perfectly fine. Almost. Any problems that exist right now, are not in the 20 class of ACs, it's the 5s, and 2s that have problems.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 12 September 2014 - 11:45 PM.

[B0oN]

Selene Kirion, did you factor in your calculations that HSR could have had a massive hiccup while giving it to the S-Hawk making it look invulnerable ?

Would be a classic and none-too-rare occurence in this game, ma´frien ^^

Examples ?

See a mech with red Crit-CT ... fire 4 ERPPC´s into CT, see him take it without damage and see him kill me
I could liteally provide you with dozens of "non-registering-hits" recaps if needs be,letalone how many tales about that many others could tell as well .

[C E Dwyer]

Ballistics seem fine to me my ballistic based Direwolf (not gauss) 6 kills 1200 damage, unless of course it was the 4 small lasers That did all the damage.

For clan ultra's to be any good you need to have good tracking skills or people that like to think its a good idea to stand still or go in reverse, (got to love pilots that do exactly the opposite they need to do, to maybe survive)

so can only really put this down to pilot error or maybe lag

[John80sk]

The problem with the clan UAC-20 isn't the damage, it's that you could hit a target by throwing 4 baseballs faster than the projectile speeds.

[Summon3r]

Selene Kirion, on 11 September 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

Seriously..? Really??

I'm so sorry guys but you are really wrong if you think that the C-Ultra AC/20 is doing the right damage.

Do you really think it's fine that this kind of weapon can't destroy a Shadow Hawk wasting 2 TONS of ammo???

I know you are really frightened about having an overpowered weapon in game but...In Battletech that's what it's about. C-Ultra AC/20 is an amazing weapon.

Of course it's short of ammo. Of course it's a short range weapon. But it's a 20 points of damage Weapon(40 if Ultra enabled)!!! You can't waste all your ammo in a Shadow Hawk. It's a matter of numbers!!!

This weapon doubles a PPC so...you have a problem if you think a Cicada or Spider can bear this damage and still run away... and that's what happens now in your game. It's ridiculous.

I was very pleased with your game till last days. Of course the Interface is not the best you can find. The Chat is very uncomfortable. You get hooked just playing 1 match but this...this is... I can't find the right words...I played a lot to get the damm Summoner...I played a lot to modify the config. And the result is that your game is a matter of DPS and your best weapon is not working accordingly.


Now all of you can tell me that i'm a n00b but...if you love Battletech, you know i'm right.

i agree in many ways with what all of your posts in this thread are saying.... the most unfortunate part of this game is how far from the actual mechwarrior/battletech lore/canon they have strayed from... so we need to take that with a grain of salt as they will never ever make the cauc20 any more deadly then it already is (personally i try and save my ammo for heavies and assualts or non lateral moving quicker mechs) ....

what we need is for them to fix the bloody lbx AC so that we can switch from buckshot to slug..... also if you think they broke uac20 lol try your jumpjets or should i say your hot air balloon not to mention the overall patheticness of all ppc projectile speeds and the godlyness of lrm's

[IraqiWalker]

Summon3r, on 14 September 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

i agree in many ways with what all of your posts in this thread are saying.... the most unfortunate part of this game is how far from the actual mechwarrior/battletech lore/canon they have strayed from... so we need to take that with a grain of salt as they will never ever make the cauc20 any more deadly then it already is (personally i try and save my ammo for heavies and assualts or non lateral moving quicker mechs) ....

what we need is for them to fix the bloody lbx AC so that we can switch from buckshot to slug..... also if you think they broke uac20 lol try your jumpjets or should i say your hot air balloon not to mention the overall patheticness of all ppc projectile speeds and the godlyness of lrm's

LBXs never fired a single slug, as far as I recall. They switched to standard AC ammo, or Buckshot ammo. So don't expect C-LBXs to function like IS ACs.

[Dark Jackal]

Dyerwolf02, on 12 September 2014 - 11:20 PM, said:

My main AC is the IS LBX-10, use two on my banshe, get 900+ matches every game beacuse of thoes things. Piloting fixes all weapon balance problems.....

If that's true, then eventually it will be looked at and nerfed. After all, this is Nerf-Meta Warrior Online. Anything that sticks out doing too much DPS is going to get noticed, then nerfed to the ground, and finally gently raised slightly from there.

[Dark Jackal]

IraqiWalker, on 12 September 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

Just so you know, even though armor was doubled. The fire rate on all the weapons is almost tripled. The IS AC 20 is actually an AC 60. Since it can fire 3 times in 10 seconds. These weapons were classed based on the total damage done in 10 seconds.

Is that the confirmed baseline where everything is balanced from MWO stand-point and not the TT? Some things are a bit out of whack like heat for starters. I haven't figured out the exact baseline but I don't think PGI is quite using how TT balanced for this game yet. This can be seen when someone that builds 'Mechs in the TT and does the same 'Mechs in MWO and will see the risk/reward mechanisms in the TT don't sync at all with the half that MWO uses except for a few unchangeable places, like tonnage and crit space.

[IraqiWalker]

Dark Jackal, on 14 September 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

Is that the confirmed baseline where everything is balanced from MWO stand-point and not the TT? Some things are a bit out of whack like heat for starters. I haven't figured out the exact baseline but I don't think PGI is quite using how TT balanced for this game yet. This can be seen when someone that builds 'Mechs in the TT and does the same 'Mechs in MWO and will see the risk/reward mechanisms in the TT don't sync at all with the half that MWO uses except for a few unchangeable places, like tonnage and crit space.

The TT AC 20 dealt 20 damage in 10 seconds. (The Pontiac 100 fired 100 rounds in 10 seconds each dealing 0.2 damage. Totaling up to 20). Our AC 20 deals 20 damage per shot, with a cooldown of 4 seconds. So for the the first 10 seconds it's an AC 50, for the next 10 seconds it's an AC 60, and it goes back and forth between 60 and 50.

Same with LRMs, LRM 15 is classed as a missile system that deals a total of 15 damage over the span of 10 seconds. However, in this game it deals 39 damage for the first 10 seconds, (4.25 seconds cooldown)

All armor for mechs in this game has been doubled, to try and increase TTK, along with internal health as well. You see, in closed beta, the game was very accurate to TT, so matches didn't last long. People requested longer TTKs, and we got double armor, however to compensate for double armor, weapon firing rates increased as well.

In TT a proper duel between two assaults with max armor should go anywhere between 10 and 35 seconds. Usually no longer than that. Here, it can last much much longer. I've had entire matches with 4 lances beating each other up lasting no more than 1 minute. Here, it takes 5 minutes sometimes before the first kill.


Heat in MW:O uses a scaling heat cap, which TT did have in a way, I believe. I never used it, but I vaguely remember someone mentioning such a thing. In MW:O when you add heatsinks, they improve your threshold. Instead of a fixed 30 points for all mechs, they start with a threshold that gets increased the mode heatsinks you add. (if you are using 17 or less, DHS actually dissipate around 2.18 hps or so, making them better than TT DHS)


There are quite a few things out of whack with balance in MW:O compared to TT.

[Alienized]

you guys do realize that a full tabletop and lore designed game would be far worse than this ye?.... also i highly doubt that the guns would actually hit EXACTLY where you aim at if the target is 600m away... nothing is that accurate. you will hit near it but not mm wise. be happy that gun accuracy doesnt take place here and it definetly hits where you aim at (apart from missiles and lbx with the spread)

then i seem to do totally fine with the banshee setup i use, 2 ac2 and 1 lbx10. its all about precise timing and these ac2 actually kill alot of stuff too. now, if ac2 can do that why should a c-uac 20 not be able to do that? ofc if you shoot while a fast mech is running across you and not wait until he goes away in a straight line.... i'l leave that open to you. and maybe you should go away from one-gun-only loadouts.... ye i seen a stormcorw once that had nothing but 1 c-uac 20... derp.

[Dark Jackal]

IraqiWalker, on 14 September 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

All armor for mechs in this game has been doubled, to try and increase TTK, along with internal health as well. You see, in closed beta, the game was very accurate to TT, so matches didn't last long. People requested longer TTKs, and we got double armor, however to compensate for double armor, weapon firing rates increased as well.

I remember the open Beta and 'Mech were dying like flies. I also do recall prior to even setting the armor a number of vets from the leagues I was on to have the armor from the outset set up given our past experiences and the near +80% marksmanship FPS nets you on average.

Quote

Heat in MW:O uses a scaling heat cap, which TT did have in a way, I believe. I never used it, but I vaguely remember someone mentioning such a thing. In MW:O when you add heatsinks, they improve your threshold. Instead of a fixed 30 points for all mechs, they start with a threshold that gets increased the mode heatsinks you add. (if you are using 17 or less, DHS actually dissipate around 2.18 hps or so, making them better than TT DHS)

At least as far as the TT goes, it was usually not a good idea to fire too heavily outside your sink capacity regardless of whether or not you had single or double heat sinks. The only time you hit that 30 heat scale fixed on every record sheet is any extra heat your sinks could not dissipate in that turn. I agree in a sense MWO does some thing with heat a bit generously as the penalties listed in the 30 sink for the most part aren't applied at all. At least jump jets mess with the targeting but heat does not.

For anyone that is interested, that TT heat scale goes and applies starting the next turn and all penalties on that apply to the 'Mech unless they're permanent (like ammo explosions). The Movement in particular effects the walk value as the TT calculates the run value as 1.5 times the walk value rounded up. So a fast heavy at 5/8 is going to be easier to hit the more it decides to fire recklessly going 4/6, then 3/4, 2/3, 1/2, then 0 or no movement. The movement and fire are not cumulative.

Quote

There are quite a few things out of whack with balance in MW:O compared to TT.

I do feel that engines and armor are contributing to the unbalanced nature since we have half of the TT in the game and the other half some what not applying curiously which do directly impact the configurations of 'Mechs and what they are capable of.

For example, I never completely understood the design decision of having so many engine options as that breaks any sort of balance the original TT game achieved by allowing folks in MWO to use the advantage of smaller maps to get a smaller engine in some cases to go roughly the name pace as before but with more tonnage allocated to other things. For lighter 'Mechs, they don't necessarily have to make a big sacrifice to go from 6/9 to 7/11 and can find middle ground and make the designs relatively close to the 6/9 load out but going faster but not as fast as 7/11, like 6.5/10.

[Bad Andy]

Clan uac 20 is fine, put the ballistic cooldown arm on and take the cooldown module, with fast fire you got nearly 30% faster fire rate. put 2 ML on the other arm and stuff the rest with ammo, with 225 UAC/20 i almost never run out

[Tarl Cabot]

As for MWO using Battletech rules, MWO and the other MPBT/MW games were more in line with Solaris rules. But the sad issue is that PGI is only using a very tiny portion of the heat scale. Another way of putting it is that instead of using power-based actions it uses heat for checks and balances. Atm MWO has removed most of the checks, leaving very little to balance everything else.

[river908]

Yeah, I loaded 2 U/AC20 on a direwolf but damage / accuracy of U/AC20 is quite off. I still prefer the AC 20 on a jager.