272 replies to this topic

[Berserker]

Restricting Mechs by faction sounds like a good idea because it helps develop the flavor of the IS war. However, encouraging faction shifts between seasons seems like a mistake especially when you consider the 12-man launch requirement, unless you beef up the matchmaking/meeting/comms quite a bit.

I'd suggest a better way of incentivising players to run faction-common mechs would be to require a "scavenger" module to be procured for 5 million cbills or the like, require it to be installed in any non-faction mech a pilot wants to add to their 4-deck, and additionally require a per-match cbill penalty to represent the additional cost of repair/rearm/refit for a mech that the faction's factories and repair bays aren't familiar with. The idea being you'd get 95% faction mechs and a smattering of non-faction ones without strictly limiting the utility of a player's inventory.

With Clan vs IS affiliation, I'd propose that the average dedicated player probably has about 50/50 mechs at this point, so let us have a Clan *and* and IS designation and choose to drop in a given season as one or the other. Or, even better, just apply the formula above as well, except double the cbill cost of the module and the re-fit.

[TamerSA]

I generally like the ideas coming from the developers. I do have a few concerns or things that I'm not clear on:

1) My unit currently has 4 members, and will not likely grow to 12, since it is just for RL friends. Does this mean we would never be able to compete in CW as a unit? Or do I misunderstand the 12 man thing?

2) If the dropship respawning allows you one of each weight class, I take it these replace class restrictions. So in other words the whole team can drop as 12 lights, then 12 mediums etc?

3) I do not like the seasons idea... a big selling point of CW that has been repeated by PGI many times is "persistence". Three months is not persistent. What would maybe be a good alternative is to allow faction swapping after one "season" but keep the map the same. But this opens the game up for people to hop onto the winning faction. I think there are still other options than resetting however. Another alternative would be to have a player or unit pay a Cbill fee to change faction, and then still only allow a limited number of changes per interval.

I would also suggest an alternative to respawning, where up to [24] people can dedicate themselves to a planet challenge queue. Still using FIFO, when someone dies the next guy in the queue takes his place. This obviously comes with cons of waiting times and technical difficulty, but just an idea.

[Hoax415]

Its possible or even likely your unit will not be able to bid for contract defender status with under 12 players though they have not said that yet.

Additionally if you want to attack a world your unit will have to join up with other people. You need to form a 12-man to launch an attack. What official in-game tools will be created to help facilitate that ad-hoc attack group formation is unknown at this time.

I would wager though that all of the major factions will have their own attempts to help people organize so if you aren't afraid of social interaction you'll be able to find friendly faction members to drop with quite easily.

Everyone who isn't a contract defender has access to the public defense calls appropriate to their faction regardless of unit affiliation or unit size.

TamerSA, on 15 September 2014 - 03:50 AM, said:

2) If the dropship respawning allows you one of each weight class, I take it these replace class restrictions. So in other words the whole team can drop as 12 lights, then 12 mediums etc?

They have not said that. It is highly unlikely that is how it will work but that idea seems to be still very drawing board and there is a lot of feedback on it so we will see in another week if more info is released.

Edited by Hoax415, 15 September 2014 - 06:47 AM.

[Illegal Username]

wtf why are there two threads on this. Anyway, posted this on the other one:

IMO the problem with CW starting with clan versus IS instead of IS vs IS is that clan mechs cost cash money right now. And they're not exactly going to be cheap when they're on sale for MC. This cuts down on the CW playerbase crazy bad.

[TamerSA]

Illegal Username, on 15 September 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

MO the problem with CW starting with clan versus IS instead of IS vs IS is that clan mechs cost cash money right now. And they're not exactly going to be cheap when they're on sale for MC. This cuts down on the CW playerbase crazy bad.

Yea, this is a valid argument. Although I think there are more people who bought Clan mechs than you think, it's still no match for IS mech numbers...

I made a suggestion quite some time ago which I still maintain: Allow merc affiliated players to use both Clan and IS mechs. Then add a lucrative reward to faction loyalists, the best idea of which would probably be a unique module for Clan and IS respectively. It can even be made to only work if you are affiliated to the correct faction for example to make sure it does not get abused by faction swapping.

Edited by TamerSA, 15 September 2014 - 01:03 PM.

[HlynkaCG]

Reno Blade, on 11 September 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

Respawn
The 1-respawn reinforcement idea sounds fun (name it siege mode or something).
And it is a lot less complicated. Just use the same class for both slots.

For the dropship mode, it might be possible/better to try it with 1 class only.
Choose your class in the beginning before you launch, just like in the Pug queue, then the MMaker will try to put you into a denfending faction team (as a faction player).
But that way you can't choose the planet yourself (because MM does it for you and your selected class).

If you have a 12man team with 3x4, the setup will stay true for each respawn, but you would have to own 4 mechs of that weight class (if not available, 4x the Trial mech of that class).
Let's say you start with a Quickdraw, giving you more speed and mobility, then you breach the gates, but die in the progress.
Then you take your Catapult to give long range support to cover the advance into enemy positions.
If you then need to respawn with a brawling Orion or Phract... You see?

I like your idea but I actually think that this concept would served BETTER by the seperate weight classes.

For instance...
You spawn in your Shadowhawk or Quickdraw, so you can have a good mix of speed and firepower at the outset. You breach the gates, but die in the process. You select your Stalker to give long range support to cover the advance into enemy positions, but get taken out by an enemy ECM Light lurking in your team's backfield. Hopping into your Jenner, you chase that little punk down and secure the victory

Edited by HlynkaCG, 15 September 2014 - 01:34 PM.

[Felio]

Re:

Quote

Faction Switching - Making use of all of your 'Mech Inventory

We should be able to join a house AND a clan, and we would be fighting for one side or the other depending on the 'mech we had selected. That way we get our pure faction vs faction matches and get to use the 'mech we want at any given moment.

[Felio]

And you still haven't addressed the problem of you planning on only letting 12-person groups participate in CW.

You have a contingency plan to let others defend, though never attack, but it sounds like realistically a player can expect it to never happen to him or her outside of a 12-person group.

[Myke Pantera]

ShadowWard, on 11 September 2014 - 05:37 PM, said:

One thing I want to see, even if "Drop Ship" mode does NOT make it in-game. The ability to 'queue' up with multiple mech's. Then, after connecting to the match, we wind up at a screen which tells you 'what' map your playing on, as well as the 'quirks' of that map (such as high heat). Then, were allowed to 'drop' with 1 mech (from those 4) for that match.

^^ that

I am really not into assaults and heavies, so Drop Ship mode doesn't sound great for me, but i like the idea of being able to choose a mech out of 3-4 once i know which map AND gamemode i'm dropping in. If this can be done, i am supporting Russ's idea of relaxing the MM by making the mode selection a vote, rather than a restriction. I don't need a map vote, if i can select the mech this way.

[Cimarb]

Hoax415, on 14 September 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

That sounds a bit too punitive but maybe people would prefer time and cbill penalties to loyalty penalties so it might be palatable if you presented it as that sort of trade off.

The least punishing but still meaningful system would be on of strictly time.

So say you are Clan Wolf. To get to House Davion you would need to:

Go from Clan Wolf to Clan Daggerstar.
from Daggerstar to LNW
from LNW to merc
from merc to Davion

The advantage of this kind of system instead of free move between factions is fairly obvious I'd say in terms of people doing cheap or unsporting things.

Add in whatever time/cbill/LP deduction/whatever component people feels is appropriate to each move and I think you have a reasonable enough system.

Someone else suggested something like that so credit to whoever that was, its a solid idea.

But realistically I'm fine with anything. If people are allowed to switch then some people will join the winning side but that always happens so I'd rather keep players happy than try to force them to not be faction switchers and I think PGI has to take a similar attitude considering how strongly people feel its unfair to have their mech access restricted in any way.

I think that would work just just as good as my idea, but unless there are significant loyalist benefits, everyone in question will just be merc/dagger to minimize the "downtime". Likewise, I will adapt to whatever, but seasonal resets are about the worst option possible.

CW is supposed to finally make things matter, so resetting the timeline, or allowing free/easy faction swaps will completely ruin that.

[Merit Lef]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 11 September 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

Originally it was planned to have 1.. ONE... respawn when the attackers breached the gate in the Invasion game mode. This gives the feeling of re-enforcements arriving because the respawn would happen in the player's respective bases. Basically players who died before the gate breach, would go into a stasis mode and observe like the current spectator mode. Once the gate was breached, everyone in stasis would respawn one time. People who had not died would have a "respawn in their pocket".

I say combine the two ideas together. The attacking force gets Dropships while the defending force gets reinforcements.
Question I have is to what extent these dropships will have in the game play. If its just some animation before and after death all we are jumping up and down for is responds. Not a lot to get excited about. Congratz you now have 4 lives instead of 1. (By the way I think lesser responds are for the better. Nothing like the thrill of fighting for your last life. And I hate those who Leroy Jenkins and destroy the team in the process. Fun to watch though haha.)
But….
If dropship mode means they’re interactive in some way or another in the match and its objectives then we have something here. Can you expand beyond the respond function of Dropship PGI, thanks.

Edited by Merit Lef, 15 September 2014 - 06:03 PM.

[Keeshu]

As much as I'd like to read through 11 pages, I'm a bit busy right now.

I just wanted to ask/ bring to their attention:
#1 Will we have a notice about when the Community Warfare will be in before it comes in?
#2 Will we get a list of mechs that we will be able to pilot for each faction?
#3 Will we be able to see any sort of faction specific bonuses before Community Warfare is out?

3 Months is a long time, it'd be nice to have at least a few days (preferably a week) to decide before we get thrown into battle. I have not read the books, and I want to see MWO's interpretation of all the factions before I go off and read all the Battletech novels. The Faction + Clan tab under game info doesn't really say much and I'm not expecting any big stories, so I'll just wait to see the mechs and/or faction bonuses for each faction.


I look forward to battling with the Mad Dog. While that probably means I should go Ghost Bear (on sarna it's mentioned that they love it both on the Mad Dog page and Ghost Bear page), I'm not sure if Smoke Jaguar/Clan Loyalist will have different bonuses that may help/hurt the Mad Dog.

[Gunthar]

DropShip mode is still being discussed by the design team and I think a good portion of the community would like this if its done right (IE not straight up respawn mode). The problem I see is in the four mechs (or however many we can bring). I would much prefer the 4 mech's of the same weight class vs the 1 from each weight class. Just don't see how the 3/3/3/3 system can work in that version whereas if we each are assigned a weight class then it should be no issue. Community poll time maybe?

[Kuga ZA]

Please read through this.

http://mwomercs.com/...43#entry3721543

[PhoenixNMGLB]

I don't really see why there should be a need for a map reset except in the most dire of circumstances, here is why;

PGI control the planets going up for invasion which effectively means they control the flow of the war.

You could offer incentives to merc and lone wolf units to help out struggling factions - think of this as a desperate hiring spree if you will.

I think seasons should be used to reward factions doing well, perhaps offer units a chance to change allegiance and to generally take stock.

Just my 2 penny's worth.

[Widowmaker1981]

Dropship mode sounds awesome (longer battles, more tactics etc..). I really don't believe that people will go 'rambo' because they can respawn in a new mech, I think that fear comes from games like battlefield etc. which have unlimited respawns. That is an entirely different animal, in a game where you have 4 'lives' - and you know everyone else does - there is no incentive to 'do as much damage as possible as fast as possible and come back', since that would just make you do badly, just like in the current game modes... I suppose assault mech pilots might rambo it up in the light mech if they hate playing lights.. but that brings me to my next point:

Personally, i would drop the idea of 3/3/3/3 for dropship mode, and instead give people up to 4 mechs with a total tonnage limit (say, 220 tons for example). That way no one who hates a particular class will be forced to play it, but people who want to play lighter mechs will be able to take more of them.

[Haroldwolf]

"I met with the engineers involved with CW-Phase 2 and we started talking about the game mode and the idea of respawn. Wayyy back in closed Beta everyone thought Drop Ship mode would be very cool... the ability to bring in up to 4 'Mechs (1 of each Weight Class) into a match and choose non-destroyed 'Mechs to respawn back into the match with. This was a high technical risk back then and Drop Ship was put on the back burner.

In the meeting today and planning out how we will be incorporating the new game mode into Community Warfare to make a unique experience... Drop Ship came back up. Now let me tell you this... every time I mention Drop Ship, the engineering team (I'll call them Karl & Friends) would cringe back in fear with eyes that would make an anime character jealous. We all started talking.. what's best for the game?.. what would have to get done?.. everyone agreed the community would love something like Drop Ship."

I love this idea and here is some suggestions to help with play balance:
1) Clan get 1 respawn and IS gets 2 respawns. This simulates a clan batchall with the clan calling in reinforcements. The two IS respwans simulates the arrival of their reinformants.
2) REVERSE most of the clan nerfs. If you implement #1 then the game now depends on superior tactics and mechwarrior skill to determine the winner rather than satisfy the "play balance" whiners.

Edited by Haroldwolf, 17 September 2014 - 06:33 AM.

[Hoax415]

You should probably think things through a little more before claiming you have suggestions for "play balance".

Lets say we're reversing some/most of the clan nerfs.

Then we are playing 12v12 Clan vs IS. But the IS get an extra respawn.

That isn't balanced. That is way less balanced than 10v12 would be and 10v12 with most of the clan nerfs reversed isn't balanced on skirmish or assault in the first place it would certainly be Clan favored.

Without a numerical advantage in the actual combat, the differences in firepower lead to very uneven engagements 12v12 which should lead to a stomp. Remember that 90% number, we're back in that territory.

Basically IS need to kill 7+ mechs with their first and second spawn. Then they play the last spawn with a numbers advantage and should be able to steamroll? Except they won't, even if they kill 14 mechs in the first two matches they only earn a 10v12 with old clan power levels. Which what limited data we have is hardly heavily IS favored.

We have zero data suggesting that 12v12 with clan nerfs reverted IS should be able to average around 7 kills in the first place. Most stomps, and we would be expecting stomps, are 12-4 or worse.

You are literally suggesting turning the battles into 3 imbalanced as hell by design (first two heavily clan favorite, last one IS favorite if they have reduced the Clan team to 9 or less mechs) matches. What is the balance improvement here? You have made all the combat less fun for both sides.

Here IS, if you can force the clan side into two pyrrhic victories it will choke them with our dead and we win because we get an extra spawn to throw at them and then you finally might be able to win! Huzzah!

Is that some kind of cruel joke? What an awful awful idea you have there.

Edited by Hoax415, 17 September 2014 - 07:28 AM.

[Haroldwolf]

@Hoax415

Thanks for your insightful comments. I also especially like your additional balance suggestions.

[Frozen Spirit Jac]

Sorry but the re-spawn factor does seem a little more EA. Especially as players will die and instantly appear in a new mech of their choosing. Respawn Campers is the word for that. Not strategic play.
Always love the idea of Eve Sandbox if your ship destroyed you had to pod back to safety and get back a secondary ship to return back to the battle. Otherwise if your pod destroyed well wait for a clone to revitalise.
If your Mech I damaged you have option to either
1. Ditch your mech by ejecting and trying to make it back to the dropship on foot. But giving your pilot the advantage of stealth as trying to see him from a cockpit would be difficult unless he walks aimlessly under foot.
Then you can go into Dropship and retrieve a secondary mech only (time for going on foot back to dropship taking longer as you can go max 9kph)
By ejecting from crippled mech should give you the option to Blow your mech if you have the module loaded to it, giving the option to cause damage to face huggers and brawlers.
Pilot has a health bar option too, forcing him to take care with how many times of ejecting and blowing mech, making way back to Dropship and only have the opportunity spectate enemy mechs when on foot. A Pilot can only call an arty/air strike to enemy mechs if had the module option. As long as he doesnt call to close to himself. Taking physical damage each time a mech gets CT'd would cause health bar to go lower till you are dead.
Having a CT'd mech or XL engine to be useless (both torsos) will cause instant ejecting of pilot but at a cost of further damage to health of pilot
But if pilot dies then he is dead, and only then can he/she spectate from other mechs just like now. And if you died before using second mech, well that's life - I mean death.

Health of Pilot
5% Damage to health - Overheat causing partial CT damage (helps with heat management)
10% Damage to health - Standard ejection
15% Damage to health - CT in Red even
30% Damage to health - Ejection with blowing mech
40% Damage to health - Falling off a cliff, or any high object if you landed on after the initial ejection.
60% Damage to health - Forced ejection of mech
100% Damage to health - Getting shot, stomped on, or direct area of bombardment of arty/air strike as a pilot

Then as an option per say when much later down the track, when vehicles, tanks, hovercrafts, aircrafts come into play, have an option for evac for pilot - just an idea

2. Hobble you limping mech back to drop ship, under cover of allies, promoting more teamwork
Then you can either repair mech in mechbay on dropship (deducting time from playing for repairs, level of repairs & refit depend on tonnage/damage or have enough C-Bills for repairs, if you don't already have the stock for parts). Or get out of mech and climb into another mech. But won't be able to use previous mech, or leave it for repairs. (having the least amount of time for being penalised) due to the fact you have only to walk back at legged speed if legged, only have to get out of mech as a pilot (infantry on foot) and climb into new mech and power up mech.
This way if the losing team had ejected from their mechs leaving salvage on the battlefield, the winning team can also claim that as extra C-bills. Depending on how much damage they have sustained.
But if losing team took their mechs back to dropship and left them their. Then that should be deducted from Salvage.

Each option is a time penalty for returning back and retrieving a fresh mechs.
I want to add more here but for now, I believe this should be seriously considered as an option. Rather than just simple oops that mech is dead - Respawn new mech up and ready.