20 replies to this topic

[Coleman Rendar]

Greetings all

Old CB player returning for some fun... but the fun has been very hard to come by...

Im making this thread to ask for help in building my atlas and general tips.

I currently use a D-DC with ecm, 2x LL, AC20, 3x SRM4 + artemis, max armour ,std 300 engine, endo, double heat sink.

However in almost every game i've played. the moment I even see contact with any enemy, even if i'm in the back. I literally always loose a side torso within seconds! I mean it, the very moment I even see an enemy i suddenly get hit and have lost half my mech already.

And even with my ecm, there have been an insane number of times when i'm already behind cover minding my own business, then suddenly I have missile incoming for ages and i get hailed down to nothing. (which is why I recently switched from my SRMs to LRMs just so i can at least return some sort of fire)

Ive also been in SO many games where the enemy team just curb stomps us 12-0.


I played back in closed back and played alot about a year ago and NEVER had such survivability issues.

Ive tried being the anchor in holding a point, but that just gets me torn apart before i even get to respond. Enemies seem to be able to alpha strike half my mech off while my alpha strikes just damage their armour and they retreat to cover.

I've tried being the med to long range support, but end up getting picked apart by gauss jagers and tons of light mechs.

I've even tried just passively staying in the center of the pug group giving ecm cover, and literally get murdered and cored within moments of combat starting. (When i say seconds, i literally mean 3 to 5 seconds into combat i'm usually taken out)

I even went YOLO and took full brawler build of full SRMs, AC20, med lasers. Ended up spending more time waiting for the opportunity to move into range to strike... and when that time did come, usually my team has already been curb stomped into the ground and I'm the last man standing... against 12 enemies...


Never before have I ever seen components get destroyed so quickly and easily ever in my previous playing.

Sorry for the large blurb but i'm just flabbergasted at how poorly i'm performing in my favorite mech. (complete opposite occurs for my Jenner, i usually get a pretty high score with that baby even when we get curb stomped)

Thanks much for any help

[Modo44]

A few things come to mind:

• Use cover whenever possible, for as long as possible. You are hard to kill, but not indestructible.
  
• Know where you go. You can not easily disengage, so be sure you want to be in a fight whenever you step out of cover. If possible, only be seen when charging.
  
• Once you have a target, tell your team mates and commit. Push through. This is where you draw attention and take damage to let your friends shoot stuff from safety.
  
• When not pushing, try to be in the middle of your team or on the attacked flank. You are the shield. Unless nearly dead, you are the first to tank.
  
• Keep moving. When not in a hurry to get somewhere, walk inside your friendly blob. This prevents easy focusing and automatically shrugs off many strikes.
  
• Unless you find a perfect alphastrike position, fire only one weapon system at a time. Your goal is to never overheat while at the same time drawing maximum aggro. (Coolshots help.)
  
• Twist (look far right or left) after every shot. This will let your arms and torsos soak up mountains of damage.
  
• To twist easier, upgrade the engine rating. You have awesome firepower, but receiving hits is your major role.
  
• Learn to face the enemy, and put most torso armor at the front where you can direct its use.
  
• Do not take too much ammo, only enough for one or two big engagements. Cooling and speed are more important.

When missiles rain on you with no spotter, that often means you have an enemy UAV nearby. Spot it and laser it down.

An upgraded D-DC build with decent usability: STD335, 2xLL+AC20+3xASRM4.

Edited by Modo44, 13 September 2014 - 06:45 AM.

[oldradagast]

With regards to the missiles - it is also possible you've been NARC'd. The game, unfortunately, offers no indicator to the pilot that this has happened. You can only tell when the missiles start coming out of nowhere and nothing seems to end the rain.

[Theron Branson]

I feel your pain as a fellow FAtlas driver. It doesn't help that everyone and their mother has LRM's and as soon as your spotted your toast. I run basically the same build but instead of SRM's I have Med Lasers in my Founders D and DC. I even tried replacing the AC20 with 2 LRM 15's but I felt dirty doing that as I felt no skill and not being what the Atlas was made for and that is a brawler. I think because the clans are out everywhere and so many people running LRM's and I get "Shaken" to death like a british nanny, there are things we can do to help a little but not much. I would recommend to buy/unlock the modules of lock depravation and maybe the AMS overload. Also it helps when you have an Uller around for support with the 3 AMS. You basically need more support and help. People need to realize that an Atlas or any other Assault can't do it alone and if you are correctly supported you can be devastating. One match I will get over 600 points then the next match 100 or less due to impart other players leaving you behind.

[Coleman Rendar]

Thanks for the initial help.

Ive used torso twisting but all that results in is having all my armour gone and im purely internals all over.

In terms of the NARC... holy hell that must have been what happened... but I had plenty of vision and never saw any mech get close enough to hit me with a narc.

I find noone in pugs even listen when i tell push. and usually any time any of us peak over a crest we just get wtf wiped. Ive noticed there are ALOT more autocannons shooting and somehow always all manage to pick off a single target without issue.


This is the original build I used to run on my atlas:
AS7-D-DC

Its fully mastered btw but I don't run modules as its too expensive to keep using

However i early found out I simply can't stay exposed long enough to make use of my UAC5s without taking a ton of damage.

Edited by Coleman Rendar, 13 September 2014 - 06:57 AM.

[oldradagast]

NARC is practically invisible - the pellet is a black ball that is easy to miss - and most people using it often shoot mechs from the sides and back anyway.

The game REALLY needs a warning when you are NARC'd, but i guess that's just too logical to happen, sadly.

[Modo44]

The UAC5 Fatlas is not that good as it requires that you look at targets without shielding. It was OK before the Dire Whale came out, but now many Clan mechs can simply out-DPS it in a straight shootout. The AC20 setup gives you a solid punch/twist/punch/twist movement with good shielding and damage output, albeit at closer ranges. The movement speed also helps it be where needed when needed.

[Coleman Rendar]

Indeed I noticed clan mechs seem to be able to out dps IS in straight up firefights most of the time... specially those direwolves O_O

How about this build?
AS7-D-DC

Replaced double UAC5 with an AC10+AC5 for similar punch of an AC20, but at longer range so I can at least participate abit more before getting in brawler range.

Big issue is I can never get myself into brawler range. The moment i do im either suddenly ganged up on or somehow my ECM get disrupted and suddenly hailed on by missiles.

I'm guessing afew times when I went into brawler range i did get narc'd which would explain afew of the times when I just got hailed to death from full health to nothing and being completely unable to see **** all

[Void Angel]

Hmm...

It seems like your positioning is off; if you haven't played since they introduced the 12-man teams, the amount of firepower available out there will be counter-intuitive for you. If you are truly getting side-cored in 5 seconds, it can only be because you're rounding a corner and exposing yourself to the entire enemy team. Particularly with the long ranges of Clan weaponry, the amount of incoming damage can be shocking until your playing habits adjust.

Another factor is Elo - we have it now, by weight class. But if you haven't played since Closed Beta, you won't have been seeded yet, so you're going to be running with newbies for a while; this, combined with the effects of focus fire, is going to give you those lopsided matches. It only takes one or two guys with no idea how to drive their 'Mechs - or a bad controller setup like using a normal joystick to aim - to die without dealing effective damage. After that, the cumulative effects of focus fire can easily make those 12-1 matches happen, even though the overall Elo range wasn't that bad.

Your builds seem to be rock solid; I personally prefer the "full brawler," but the builds you've described are stereotypical Atlas builds - for good reason. Thus, it's something in your piloting practices; Modo covered that while I was writing this out, and oldradagast just covered NARC (you can hear a thunk when it hits, or see the round ball coming at you; otherwise, you have to hide and ask your team.) The only thing I can add on that score is that most lights on the battlefield these days are ECM, or hiding with their team waiting for the main engagement. Speaking of which...

MWO has a balance issue due to the overall usefulness of certain long-range weapons - it's not enough to ruin the game by any means, but it's there. Essentially, punishments (incoming damage, etc) for both short- and long-range combat are immediate - but while long-range combat provides immediate rewards as well, the rewards for short-range combat are often deferred, and depend more on your team (you can pick the exact right time to make your move, but if the rest of your team hides behind rocks, you're still doomed.) This all tends to reinforce long-range play over brawling, though the Clans have (perhaps paradoxically) alleviated the issue because the long "stare times" of their weapon systems encourage them to maneuver to get flanking shots rather than trading fire.

So - other than to tell you not to peek over hills in an Atlas - I'm not really able to add much more than I already have without duplicating others' advice. What you really need to do is drop with someone who's more familiar with the current state of the game, and can help you correct whatever you're doing on the fly, in-match. No Guts, No Galaxy has public voice servers, I believe, and many merc units, such as Black Widow Company (shameless plug!) can give you help while providing support for this game and others you may play.

PS: I don't like PPCs on the Atlas for the same reason I try never to crest a hill in one - very low-mounted hardpoints.

PPS: that AC-shake 10/5 setup has the same problem as the UAC/5 stack, but without the high burst of the ultras. Your AC/20 builds are solid - the problem lies somewhere in your battlefield practices.

[PACoFist]

The Atlas always draws lots of fire. Why? Because it is big and terrifying. Ironically it is not really that dangerous. There are medium mechs that carry more firepower. The only thing the Atlas does better than any other mech is drawing fire and (with luck) survive it.
Therefore you really need the help of your team. You protect them by drawing fire and they protect you by killing the enemies before all your armor is gone.
It helps a lot if you announce what you are going to do, e.g.: "I push, follow me" or "let´s go to epsilon" ...

If you are lucky they follow you ...

[Coleman Rendar]

I see. I played about a year ago but i do believe that was before elo then.

But still back when i played I had similar practices and was going 50/50 with good and bad games. And I seemed to be able to take alot of damage and return it. However now I guess the clan mechs can just dish out that much extra damage.

One issue i noticed recently while playing (for matches that we epicly lost) was if I tried to lead the charge, we'd at least take some down with us. The ones where i stayed passive waiting for a an enemy to get out of position and gang on, the rest of the team pretty much melted around me, either leaving me the last one alive. Or all my escorts get torn apart and I promptly get swarmed.

Perhaps I should upgrade to a better engine to keep pace with the mediums? or at least makes it easier to go cover to cover to get to my engagement range?

I tried out the trial RS atlas and even though we lost, simply having the double LRm15 let me do significant damage and get decent score.

Ironically im currently dropping with my friends who I only recently introduced to the game (main reason i decided to play again)

[Modo44]

Void Angel brings up a good point about available firepower on the field. 12v12 plus Clan mechs make it much easier to get instagibbed than a year ago. And yeah, as the build in my first post shows, a bigger engine helps -- that is my current D-DC. I would say 325 is the minimum you want. Go 350 if you can do it with reasonable cooling (30%+ in Smurfy).

PACoFist, on 13 September 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

Ironically it is not really that dangerous.

I like people who think that. They are very confused when they meet their demise.

Edited by Modo44, 13 September 2014 - 07:30 AM.

[Coleman Rendar]

hmm, so its either instagibb or be instagibbed... not fun...

perhaps this would work?

AS7-D-DC

[Void Angel]

Nah, you just have to position yourself so that their entire team isn't shooting at you. If you do it right, you're not going to get rofflestomped without any chance to fight back - even if you do die, you should be able to make an Atlas-shaped hole in the enemy team. I've gotten caught in a bad position a few times - and I've often been able to wade into the enemy team at close quarters and drag some poor screaming fool down with me. Whether or not your team takes advantage of that is another matter - see above, re; vicious cycle.

I should have put more into that point, so I'll do so here: Many matches, particularly with people who are of moderate skill, tend to devolve into a fightin' feud between moonshiners. Things have gotten out of hand, but nobody really wants to get shot over it yet; so they all move up until they meet the other team, and then scatter out to their favorite hiding rocks to exchange desultory gunfire while they liquor up. Once one side or the other has imbibed enough liquid courage - and/or enough people make mistakes so one side has an advantage in numbers - they'll start to push toward each other and the end-game begins.

It doesn't always work out this way; in fact, it works out that way less now that the Clans have arrived, but it's still a fairly common pattern for a match. If you recognize what stage of inebriation your teammates have reached, it'll go a long way toward allowing you to predict their responses. =)

[Coleman Rendar]

Hmm. I will work on positioning I guess.

But is it safe to assume in this current meta that LRMs are pretty much required just to do the required poking before the big brawls start? I find during the early and mid game, any form of direct fire weapon is just asking for yourself to get nuked.

[Modo44]

You do want some range on an Atlas. You can poke with direct fire weapons, too, as long as you use one arm when expecting return fire. LRMs, LLs, or PPCs -- it is up to you.

[Void Angel]

I don't use LRMs on my Atlas - nor do I often take any sort of long-range firepower. The Atlas' limited hardpoint configuration means that you're more limited by internal space and hardpoints than you are by tonnage - so pulling out the SRMs or LRM launchers hurts you in the brawl. It requires more patience, but most matches aren't a total long-range slugfest followed by a short brawling phase. On most maps the teams come together somewhat quickly, and even though everyone's is kinda hiding while they get liquored up to fight, if you work on where to stand (and where the enemy is likely to be shooting from, more importantly,) you can engage in fight around the corners of cover with their forward elements - most of whom will not be Atlases. }:]

[Kmieciu]

Funny thing is, you can put the firepower of an Atlas on a clan medium mech: SCR-PRIME UAC20 3xSRM6 2xERML that runs 107 kph.

And it's not even considered a good build!!!

One thing the Atlas still does best is tanking damage. Tanking meant hoping the enemies will hit spend their heat cap shooting your arms and side torsos. Taking advantage of the damage reduction mechanic. If they hit your arm stump, only 50% is transferred to the side torso. If your side torso is destroyed, only 25% damage is transferred to the CT.
This only works if you've got your whole team supporting you. But even while playing on comms with people you know, using an Atlas is very frustrating. Stalkers and Battlemasters are the kings of ridge-humping while the Banshee is the best ballistic assault.

[Coleman Rendar]

Kmieciu, on 15 September 2014 - 03:56 AM, said:

Funny thing is, you can put the firepower of an Atlas on a clan medium mech: SCR-PRIME UAC20 3xSRM6 2xERML that runs 107 kph.

And it's not even considered a good build!!!

One thing the Atlas still does best is tanking damage. Tanking meant hoping the enemies will hit spend their heat cap shooting your arms and side torsos. Taking advantage of the damage reduction mechanic. If they hit your arm stump, only 50% is transferred to the side torso. If your side torso is destroyed, only 25% damage is transferred to the CT.
This only works if you've got your whole team supporting you. But even while playing on comms with people you know, using an Atlas is very frustrating. Stalkers and Battlemasters are the kings of ridge-humping while the Banshee is the best ballistic assault.

amen to all that... ive been getting some better matches now. Ive been working on positioning more and finding the balance between being passive and non-passive.

But the moment I face any clan mech, The first exchange of blows usually ends up with one of my side torso's gone, even if ive already twisted around for them to hit my arm. I believe I'm starting to feel like how the IS felt when clans first invaded...

I still use my brawler setup but i've jammed in ER large lasers so i have some form of returning fire at long range

[Modo44]

In theory, your Elo should be lower due to losses from inferior tech, so you should be meeting terribad Dire Whale pilots. Of course, that is only theory. And even then, a 100 damage alphastrike at point-blank range is hard to dodge. It almost seems like you need to have a medium range build so that you can put out damage without hugging targets (read: without being easy to hit).