1306 replies to this topic

[Homeless Bill]

Hey Mischief, I vote for VXJaeger.

Also...

EboneezeeR, on 15 September 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

He is for Ghost Heat. That is ruining the game. You guys don't even know what or whom you are voting for

Oh lawd kids these days.

Edited by Homeless Bill, 15 September 2014 - 02:00 PM.

[EboneezeeR]

IraqiWalker, on 15 September 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

Gradual/scaling convergence in my opinion is a much better system, especially if it's made on a weapon by weapon basis (AC 20 should be slower to converge than a single ML for example).

AC20 is a smooth bored 8 inch cannon not a howitzer. What it means? It means that projectile speed must be at least more than 700m/s. Actually AC20 need a projectile speed buff.

For those who do not know what equals BT auto-cannons I just gonna leave this here:

Guass Rifle(inc. prototype) - 100mm/L73
Heavy Gauss Rifle - 144mm/L80
Improved Haevy Gauss rifle - 120mm/L80
Railgun(prototype) - 144mm/L100


Long Tom - 245mm/L107
AC20 - 208mm/L40
Sniper Artillery Peice - 185 or 195mm/L70
AC10 - 155mm/L50
Large Rifle - 140mm/L55
AC5 - 120mm/L56
Medium Rifle - 105mm/L61
AC2 - 90mm/L70

Edited by EboneezeeR, 15 September 2014 - 02:19 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Homeless Bill, on 15 September 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

Hey Mischief, I vote for VXJaeger.

Also...

Oh lawd kids these days.

Changing your status to 'Busy selling drugs to children' No problem

Just running down to the wire, have about 60 PM conversations going right now and trying to get some specifics with PGI worked out on how this will happen tomorrow. I managed to take today off but I'm going to be at work tomorrow so I'm hoping to get it mostly sorted today so Garandos or whoever helps pick it up doesn't have a ton of work to do.

Not trying to snap, just running down to the wire.

[FactorlanP]

Honestly...

You should scrap this Council malarky. It is destined to be nothing but one large ego stroke.

What you should really be doing is asking PGI to provide a HEAVILY moderated forum sub-section specifically for players to create threads to pitch their ideas for ECM changes.

Allow only posts discussing the merits, good and bad. ALL other posts are deleted. ALL.

Set a period of time for the ideas to be submitted and discussed, eight weeks perhaps.

At the end of the period, a series of polls to select the most popular ideas. Maybe allow players to vote for their favorite four or five ideas.

Eliminate ideas. Vote again. Repeat until the list is reduced to the most popular two or three.

Submit those ideas to the developers.

This entire Council idea is virtually unworkable. It only takes a look at this thread to realize that creating a layer of political bureaucratic non-sense is going nowhere fast.

Edited by FactorlanP, 15 September 2014 - 02:19 PM.

[stjobe]

EboneezeeR, on 15 September 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

AC20 is [snip]

Actually, an AC/20 is any calibre autocannon that fires bursts or a continuous stream of shells at the rate of 20 kg per second.

Fluff has them in all kinds of bore sizes, burst sizes, and rates of fire. The only thing they have in common is that they throw 20 kg of ammo down-range per second:


(Era Report: 3052, p. 98)

[Hoax415]

TopDawg deserves a nomination.

[MischiefSC]

Hoax415, on 15 September 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

TopDawg deserves a nomination.

Nominated, messaged and already confirmed.

Here is the list.

[EboneezeeR]

stjobe, on 15 September 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Actually, an AC/20 is any calibre autocannon that fires bursts or a continuous stream of shells at the rate of 20 kg per second.

Fluff has them in all kinds of bore sizes, burst sizes, and rates of fire. The only thing they have in common is that they throw 20 kg of ammo down-range per second:


(Era Report: 3052, p. 98)

ROFL



12 inch gun shell, folks...



850 pounds/385 kilos heavy shell launched with muzzle velociy 2,700 ft/s (823 m/s)... that is 300mm/12inch shell...not a ROFLing 20 kilos. DA THING will just in a single hit will turn the Daishi fur inside his hull.



Just go back to school kid. Please.

[Tombstoner]

EboneezeeR, on 15 September 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

850 pounds/385 kilos heavy shell launched with muzzle velociy 2,700 ft/s (823 m/s)... that is 300mm/12inch shell...not a ROFLing 20 kilos. DA THING will just in a single hit will turn the Daishi fur inside his hull.

Just go back to school kid. Please.

Whats the tensile strength or the toughness value of mech armor ....... DOH......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughness

Edited by Tombstoner, 15 September 2014 - 02:48 PM.

[EboneezeeR]

Tombstoner, on 15 September 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

Whats the tensile strength of mech armor...? DOH......

Lol dude it's a 400 tons in square mm pressure... mech, any mech will just vaporize if gets a direct hit. That pressure means a penetretion of 5 metres solid reinforced concrete. Equal to direct hit of a 3000lbs JDAM. So let's be sensible... 203mm with a light "heat" or "HE/high explosive" 60-85kg shell is a top-notch maximum for a smoothbored self loading cannon.

Edited by EboneezeeR, 15 September 2014 - 02:52 PM.

[Tombstoner]

EboneezeeR, on 15 September 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

Lol dude it's a 400 tons in square mm pressure... mech, any mech will just vaporize if gets a direct hit. That pressure means a penetretion of 5 metres solid reinforced concrete. Equal to direct hit of a 3000lbs JDAM. So let's be sensible... 203mm with a light "heat" or "HE/high explosive" 60-85kg shell is a top-notch maximum for a smoothbored self loading cannon.

Yes and it dose 20 points of damage to futuristic MW armor. That's the kicker.... its an ablative system that has magical sci fi capabilities. Its described well in the lore. doesn't mean it makes sense and i love for my sci fi to have a reasonable chance for the illusion of realism. But a corner stone of BT is as weapons tech increased so did armor tech. That's not happening in real life at the moment.... armor is way to heavy to be effective on vehicles.http://www.darpa.mil...2014/09/05.aspx

I get where you coming from but it's just a scifi game.... and i think many players of BT would like PGI to just follow the BT version of things. and stop tweeking it. ECM is fubar.

Edited by Tombstoner, 15 September 2014 - 03:05 PM.

[KraftySOT]

To be fair theres nothing fancy about Battlemech armor. Composite armor is in use today.

Thats surely not a corner stone of BT.

Infact almost every weapon, technology, and piece of lore, is based on real world things. Either events, people, or actual military technology, or technology that was on the horizon in the 80s.

Take for instance the 33lb SRM missile, thats the same weight as the then highly vaulted Javelin ATGM. Imagine getting hit by 6 of those.

Frankly one of the problems is that the weights dont really make alot of sense. A modern MBT outweighs a locust. So how does a locust take an SRM and survive? With a nuclear reactor no less? Id assume a diesel engine is a little lighter.

Though it does make more sense with the cannons. An AC10 is smaller than your average modern day MBT cannon, and expectedly without special ammunition, these things can bounce off armor altogether.

They eventually added glancing blows and such in a quest to get more fidelity out of the BT system, but that has received various levels of enjoyment.

And of course a 203mm which is up into the mid range of field artillery, would destroy any MBT today with a single hit, which is pretty par for the course in the TT against light mechs.

I think the FASA guys did a great job being realistic while still making the game incredibly balanced, and abstracted. Fact is all games, wargames or not, are abstracted. Even your The Operational Art of Wars and War in the Easts that are heralded as the most accurate wargames. Some level of abstraction is required for the rules to be coherent.

Also I think people keep getting LRMs wrong. These things are pretty small. An LRM20 is like your world war two era Nebelwerfer or Katayusha. Just with fins and a guidance system. Their range isnt much higher than those famous rocket platforms of the second world war, and theyre about as damaging to armored vehicles, which isnt much.

In the TT, theyre pretty darned inaccurate.

[Monsoon]

Gods, let's please only have people who can discuss the topics reasonably and without malice. I already see a couple of names on that list, I'd say would be huge mistakes.

However, Koniving, Bishop Steiner, Homeless Bill, JaegerXII, Jman5, Joseph Mallan, Redshift2k5 all good choices, IMO.

[Rebas Kradd]

Whoever is tampering with the Google Doc of nominees and inserting what are obviously opinions not submitted by the nominee, please stop before Mischief just makes the doc private. You're already upsetting a sincere attempt to keep things neutral.

[Monky]

I nominate 7;

Proton
JagerXII
Adiuvo
Homeless Bil
Jman5
TheMagician
Heimdelight

Edited by Monky, 15 September 2014 - 04:26 PM.

[Homeless Bill]

Rebas Kradd, on 15 September 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

Whoever is tampering with the Google Doc of nominees and inserting what are obviously opinions not submitted by the nominee, please stop before Mischief just makes the doc private. You're already upsetting a sincere attempt to keep things neutral.

I still like my "self-appointed loud *******" description better. I'm honestly surprised public editing is allowed and it's not just a complete ******* mess.

[Heffay]

Homeless Bill, on 15 September 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

I still like my "self-appointed loud *******" description better. I'm honestly surprised public editing is allowed and it's not just a complete ******* mess.

Well, I do have to go in a couple times a day to clean it up. People are just so petty. Kinda sad.

[LCCX]

Davers, on 14 September 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

It seems like it will create an additional tier between PGI and the community. I am not sure how that fasilitates communication. Besides, doesn't PGI still have it's 'secret squirrels' already?

It is and it isn't a layer between PGI and the community. It will be volunteers (PGI doesn't pay them), but they won't be the same as forum moderators. Their collection of community balance interests (starting with ECM), and publically turning them into actionable, pollable suggestions is what facilitates communication. PGI only has to check some poll results instead of trying to count out personal preferences from the hundreds or thousands of posts, in a variety of threads/topics on a variety of possible changes; this is far clearer and more concise (== better communication), thus facilitated.

[M a y h e m]

I have also started a Reddit thread that I will keep updated with relevant developments.

http://www.reddit.co...ayer_committee/

[Kaijin]

Bigbacon, on 15 September 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

that still doesn't define the 80% player base....

80% of what? people who played a round in the last XX days?
people who are founders?
people who spent real money?

again, how will that be defined? They can make it whatever they want and either way it will turn out with a small minority having the power to make changes to the game for all of us even if the rest of us don't want it.

PGI can just take whatever they say and make it happen because they are the devs. They already go on the opinions of the 'elite' players ( and they used that a few patches ago) so how can we be sure that this isn't just a more formal way for them to work with those elite players to screw the rest of us?

I'd vote for a Closed Beta majority, obtained via e-mail survey, as more than a few participants in the Closed Beta abandoned the game entirely when it became apparent Paul's God Box wouldn't be altered. The Closed Beta testers because while MWO certainly accumulated more MW and BT fans past the time when the Closed Beta ended, it'd be safe bet to say that a large portion of those testers were those who were ardent enough about the IP to be there at the time of the game's inception.