114 replies to this topic

[JigglyMoobs]

You know, to really get the Atlas to be able to close to brawling distances and deal with the terrain issues, what you need to is to take something like the Atlas D, give it more missile hardpoints and more lasers, make it run at 80 or 90 kph, and throw in a couple of jump jets to boot.

Oh wait, that's just a Timberwolf.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 12 September 2014 - 06:34 PM.

[oldradagast]

In general, assuming the two builds are comparable (no joke builds), the mechs are both in the same condition, and the pilots are of about equal skill, the Dire Wolf will win almost every time.

There is absolutely nothing the IS has that is remotely comparable to the firepower that can be put out by a Dire Wolf, and that firepower is effectively "free" since the mech still has the armor of a 100-tonner with decent mobility.

Even the vaunted "IS can use pinpoint damage" fallacy means nothing to the Dire Wolf. It can also mount a pair of Gauss Rifles with plenty of backup weapons, which is more pinpoint damage than almost any IS mech, and it doesn't need to become a glass cannon to do so. It can mount a pile of UAC5's and, despite the damage spread, put out twice the DPS of those amazing "front-loaded" IS weapons. It can mount a mix of UAC20's and UAC10's... with backup weapons... it basically has "all the guns."

What does the Atlas have? At most 2 ballistics, and they'll spread damage, too, or 1 AC20, which is nothing compared to the Dire Wolf, and a bunch of SRM's... which hit hard, but also spread damage and require you to close the ranged, which is very hard against the DPS of a Dire Wolf.

No, the Dire Wolf wins this fight in reality almost every time for good reasons.

Edited by oldradagast, 13 September 2014 - 06:52 AM.

[JigglyMoobs]

oldradagast, on 13 September 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

In general, assuming the two builds are comparable (no joke builds), the mechs are both in the same condition, and the pilots are of about equal skill, the Dire Wolf will win almost every time.

There is absolutely nothing the IS has that is remotely comparable to the firepower that can be put out by a Dire Wolf, and that firepower is effectively "free" since the mech still has the armor of a 100-tonner with decent mobility.

Even the vaunted "IS can use pinpoint damage" fallacy means nothing to the Dire Wolf. It can also mount a pair of Gauss Rifles with plenty of backup weapons, which is more pinpoint damage than almost any IS mech, and it doesn't need to become a glass cannon to do so. It can mount a pile of UAC5's and, despite the damage spread, put out twice the DPS of those amazing "front-loaded" IS weapons. It can mount a mix of UAC20's and UAC10's... with backup weapons... it basically has "all the guns."

What does the Atlas have? At most 2 ballistics, and they'll spread damage, too, or 1 AC20, which is nothing compared to the Dire Wolf, and a bunch of SRM's... which hit hard, but also spread damage and require you to close the ranged, which is very hard against the DPS of a Dire Wolf.

No, the Dire Wolf wins this fight in reality almost every time for good reasons.

Exactly. The Atlas needs a BUFF. I used to love my DDC, and then PGI introduced that horrible terrain model that made him trip and snag at every rock, and climb hills like an asthmatic sea turtle, killed his ability to use Gauss in brawls with that charge up mechanism, and slowed his AC/20 slugs down to the speed of fast spit balls. His cool looking low slung arms became more useless than tyrannosaurus stubs, and the utter lack of high weapons mounts became fatal at all ranges.

At least before the clan mechs showed up he could hide behind a hill, under a bridge or behind a building and club unsuspecting mechs over the head with his omg close range fire power. With clan mechs in play, if the enemy is that close, the team is already dead, not to mention that mediums now have more alpha.

BUFF the Atlas. Give him some more weapons mounts. Do SOMETHING for the big fella so that he's not constantly hiding behind his buddies, "providing ECM support".

Yep, that's pretty much the only value he brings to the team these days.

Jiggly: Guys, I'm gonna switch out of an Atlas.
Team: No, but the ecm
Team: Oh wait, we'll just get a cicada.
Jiggly: ()

[pulupulu]

There are still ALOT of bad direwolf player with really bad direwolf builds out there queuing. So, yes, it is possible to kill them with atlas.

However, if direwolf population ever become min-max only, atlas will have no chance.

[Just wanna play]

JigglyMoobs, on 13 September 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

Exactly. The Atlas needs a BUFF. I used to love my DDC, and then PGI introduced that horrible terrain model that made him trip and snag at every rock, and climb hills like an asthmatic sea turtle, killed his ability to use Gauss in brawls with that charge up mechanism, and slowed his AC/20 slugs down to the speed of fast spit balls. His cool looking low slung arms became more useless than tyrannosaurus stubs, and the utter lack of high weapons mounts became fatal at all ranges.

At least before the clan mechs showed up he could hide behind a hill, under a bridge or behind a building and club unsuspecting mechs over the head with his omg close range fire power. With clan mechs in play, if the enemy is that close, the team is already dead, not to mention that mediums now have more alpha.

BUFF the Atlas. Give him some more weapons mounts. Do SOMETHING for the big fella so that he's not constantly hiding behind his buddies, "providing ECM support".

Yep, that's pretty much the only value he brings to the team these days.

Jiggly: Guys, I'm gonna switch out of an Atlas.
Team: No, but the ecm
Team: Oh wait, we'll just get a cicada.
Jiggly: ( )

Me (and koniving) say base armor on stock armor or at least give front line type mechs (thunder bolt, atlas, etc) armor quirks like +10% armor, similar to what they did to the awesome. then the atlas wont just be another 100 tonner, it will actually be the ATLAS, which translate into enduring, and the thunder bolt will no longer just be a front line design with fire support armor and weight..... also would buff the locust and dragon since they are well armored designs out classed by bigger fire support mechs getting higher armor caps, the dragon is an assault mech for gods sake

Edited by Just wanna play, 13 September 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Pkunk]

Eldane, on 12 September 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

If I had to pick between my single Atlas(DDC) and my 3 Direwhales, I'd take my DDC any day of the week, an Atlas is like a ballerina compared to a DW as a hockey player! Sure the hockey player might win a fistfight, but some finesse can go a long way.

[Just wanna play]

pretty sure thats a spider ^^^

[Josef Koba]

The maneuverability of my mastered Dire Wolves make my mastered Atlases look like a parkour athlete on speed. But as much as I love my Atlases, they cannot compete with the DWs in terms of firepower or range in most cases. I wouldn't say that either mech is intrinsically better than the other, overall, however. A duel between the two would come down to piloting skill and a little bit of luck. I'm of the mind, right or wrong, that I can be a handful to any pilot in any mech and while a DW might destroy my best Atlas, I am confident that I would be able to hold him down long enough for my comrades to make his day worse.

[Josef Koba]

JigglyMoobs, on 13 September 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

Exactly. The Atlas needs a BUFF. I used to love my DDC, and then PGI introduced that horrible terrain model that made him trip and snag at every rock, and climb hills like an asthmatic sea turtle, killed his ability to use Gauss in brawls with that charge up mechanism, and slowed his AC/20 slugs down to the speed of fast spit balls. His cool looking low slung arms became more useless than tyrannosaurus stubs, and the utter lack of high weapons mounts became fatal at all ranges.

You make some good points here, especially in terms of the AC/20 velocity. While that nerf was, I think, intended to limit the AC/40 Jagers for the most part, it certainly had an impact on the Atlas's ability to brawl.

Just wanna play, on 13 September 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

Me (and koniving) say base armor on stock armor or at least give front line type mechs (thunder bolt, atlas, etc) armor quirks like +10% armor, similar to what they did to the awesome. then the atlas wont just be another 100 tonner, it will actually be the ATLAS, which translate into enduring, and the thunder bolt will no longer just be a front line design with fire support armor and weight..... also would buff the locust and dragon since they are well armored designs out classed by bigger fire support mechs getting higher armor caps, the dragon is an assault mech for gods sake

I would like to see some quirks associated with the Atlas (and all mechs, frankly). An overall armor quirk might make sense, depending on what the vision of the Atlas' intended role is.

[Just wanna play]

Josef Koba, on 14 September 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

depending on what the vision of the Atlas' intended role is.

"A 'Mech as powerful as possible, as impenetrable as possible, and as ugly and foreboding as conceivable, so that fear itself will be our ally."

[InspectorG]

Ahab vs the Whale?

[Cion]

[JigglyMoobs]

Cion, on 14 September 2014 - 08:12 PM, said:

Lol, had Kon not gimped his build, adopted chain fire rules and meticulously spread damage over every component the fight would have been over in 30 seconds, ie on the second or third alpha.

Edit: match would actually be decided in 10 seconds. 30 is for cleanup.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 14 September 2014 - 09:10 PM.

[pulupulu]

JigglyMoobs, on 14 September 2014 - 08:59 PM, said:

Edit: match would actually be decided in 10 seconds. 30 is for cleanup.

i say 4 seconds; assault aren't exactly the type to overcome defeceit. 1 fire cycle should be enough to decide it (2 shots).

but i get what u mean.

and this is what direwolf say to other mechs...

Edited by pulupulu, 14 September 2014 - 09:32 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

What can Atlas do better then Direwolf? Brawling. At medium range Direwolf has you by the balls and can melt your armor or out right alpha you to death.

Why cant a direwolf brawl? You realize you can setup a Direwolf as a brawler right? And it will brawl the !@#$ out of any Atlas.

[PhoenixFire55]

Even with equal player skill, it all depends on the situation and builds used. But generally, up close (<~200m) Atlas tears DireWolf apart, further away DireWolf tears Atlas apart. DPS matters not, if it did CTF-IM would be better than CTF-3D, we all know it was never so.

[PhoenixFire55]

Khobai, on 14 September 2014 - 09:30 PM, said:

Why cant a direwolf brawl? You realize you can setup a Direwolf as a brawler right? And it will brawl the !@#$ out of any Atlas.

With its awesome speed as well as incredible torso twist speed and ranges, with addition of arms that perfectly protect side torsoes and a tiny small CT hitbox, the DireWhale remains the king and the pinnacle of brawler mechs.

[Kmieciu]

PhoenixFire55, on 15 September 2014 - 02:53 AM, said:

With its awesome speed as well as incredible torso twist speed and ranges, with addition of arms that perfectly protect side torsoes and a tiny small CT hitbox, the DireWhale remains the king and the pinnacle of brawler mechs.

Atlas pilots think they're so smart trying to torso twist. Let's see how they'll use their "brawling skilzz" when the Hexa-Whale* chews their legs off. Watch out for them ammo explosions ;-)

The only disadvantage of an 6xUAC5 DW is that they have not enough ammo.

Not enough for 12 kills.

But plenty to take down any enemy in 1vs1 fight.

Edited by Kmieciu, 15 September 2014 - 03:12 AM.

[Modo44]

1 on 1, an Atlas pilot gets ~4 Dire Whale salvos to the legs before death. GG.

Team on team, the skill multiplier of the DW is higher. If you know how to position, the Atlas will never be in range to become dangerous. If you do not know how to position, you are dead in either of those mechs -- a free kill for a fast mech pack or an easy focus fire target. Can the Atlas win? Of course, but only with a vastly superior pilot and/or team.

Edited by Modo44, 15 September 2014 - 03:23 AM.

[Kmieciu]

Don't ask me why, but is seems this DW build has the most damage potential right now:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f4d072ed440e050
http://i.imgur.com/VuyM9ty.jpg

The premise is simple: the more UAC5 ammo you have, the better. Throw in some lasers, because UAC5s are TOO heat efficient.

Edited by Kmieciu, 15 September 2014 - 03:33 AM.