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Can An Atlas Match A Direwolf?


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#81 oldradagast

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 03:39 PM

I get a laugh out of the "the Atlas will win a brawl" defense.

In theory, yes, if the 2 mechs appear right next to each other and politely circle of death each other, the Atlas should eventually be able to get out of the Direwolf's fire arc and kill it.

Now, sure - this type of things does happen on rare occasions in reality, mostly if the mechs stumble across each other by surprise and the Dire Wolf doesn't react as fast.

But in reality, the Dire Wolf simply kills you before you get to the brawl. Brawling skills are worth little if you're dead.

#82 Vadafallon

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 05:34 AM

The Atlas will have more armor than the Direwolf, so it is going to be pretty even eventually.

#83 Soul Tribunal

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 06:45 AM

I only have a DW so far, not Atlas yet (though in October I will get my first one).
That being said, one on one rarely if ever happens unless something has gone horribly wrong in the game or someone gets seperated.
That being said, the Atlas has a certain agility to it and field of fire that I don't find nearly has restricted as the DW. Terrain can make or break the game for an assault as I have learned in my own DW and Masakari. While they are great at restricting corridors they lack a lot of the same range of motion , ie on maps like canyon that can make them perform on the same level. ANd you never fight a DW on its own anyways. You wolfpack it and put it down.
I will personally always prefer the Atlas (ECM Equipped) on my team to any DW. You let the Atlas give you cover and tank the damage while you and medium/light friends ruin the other Assults day.

My thoughts at least because the board/terrain and so many other things come into play that a realistic one vs one is rare from what I have seen.

-ST

#84 Arctcwolf

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 09:50 PM

An atlas D-DC can take any direwolf 1 on 1.

ecm pays dividends in stealth. if a direwolf cant find u, he cant kill u.

atlas can swap engines, going with more size and double heatsinks built in, clans cant.

direwolf has most weapons on the arms. no arms, less of a threat. tear an arm off and u reduce threat level by 50% in most cases.

so, u have to aim, and set up a mech properly to do enough damage to an arm to remove it. both issues are in the pilots control.

why do I know this...because i play a direwolf a lot...and because in the end, if i have weapons, i will kill you.

#85 JigglyMoobs

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 09:58 PM

The thing is, with an Atlas, even if you are a really really good pilot, even if you are loaded for a brawl, you can have zero margin for error. And oh, the Direwolf can have friends. Witness:



:P

#86 Modo44

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 10:02 PM

View Postoldradagast, on 17 September 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

In theory, yes, if the 2 mechs appear right next to each other and politely circle of death each other, the Atlas should eventually be able to get out of the Direwolf's fire arc and kill it.

Not really. A light or medium can be fast enough. An Atlas is barely pushing 60kph with a large engine, so the whale pilot only has to hit reverse to never, ever lose it. Remember also that you can take arm actuators on a Whale to get some arm tracking.

#87 MisterPlanetarian

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 03:26 AM

They play too differently to compare in that way. What you should ask is, how will the King Crab hold up to the Direwolf?

The Direwolf is essentially a fat mobile turret, nothing in this game can match it in long range standoffs. It's to slow to be used for flanking and outmanouvering. And it's way too big and unagile to be a durable defender.

The King Crab is a similar mech, only it's smaller with a similar weapons profile.

It will have top mounted ER Lasers supported by multiple AC's or dual Gauss Rifles, with some backup missiles to boot. It's arms will have better convergence and seem to be higher mounted than those of the DireWolf relative to the pilots p.o.v.



I hope that the Atlas will get internal HP bonuses as part of it's quirks to further enhance it's role as a tanked up brawler.

#88 T-Rex

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 03:43 PM

View PostVadafallon, on 18 September 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:

The Atlas will have more armor than the Direwolf, so it is going to be pretty even eventually.


No. Both are 100t Mechs and can have the exact same armor.

#89 n r g

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 04:00 PM

View PostMalachy Karrde, on 12 September 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

I am loathe to spend real money...can you build an atlas that can go toe to toe with a Daishi?


No.

//endthreadggclose

#90 Aluminumfoiled

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 05:15 PM

Anecdotal experience in matches Dire out does the Atlas everytime if you remove Atlas support. I don't drive either one.

While in my Kitfox:
What I will say is if I roll up on a Dire fading away is my only thought. I do not look at, shoot at or think at that monster until I am not in front of it. Dire's attention is not desired. x2 gauss + ERPPC(s) plays a part here.

Roll up an Atlas and I fade of course but I take a shot at them anyway. I just dont fear an Atlas with it's R torso flaw. Atlas lost the throne a long time ago and needs something. Hardpoints limit what you can do and I'm afraid it will always be so.

I cover Atlai and Dire's with ECM and focus with them quite often. Rather have a Dire next to me.

* I hoped the Banshee would be able to step up here. Not happening. Don't know why and dont see enough to know why. Can the King Crab do it? Hope so.

Edited by MicroVent, 21 September 2014 - 05:20 PM.


#91 n r g

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 05:25 PM

View PostMicroVent, on 21 September 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

Anecdotal experience in matches Dire out does the Atlas everytime if you remove Atlas support. I don't drive either one.

While in my Kitfox:
What I will say is if I roll up on a Dire fading away is my only thought. I do not look at, shoot at or think at that monster until I am not in front of it. Dire's attention is not desired. x2 gauss + ERPPC(s) plays a part here.

Roll up an Atlas and I fade of course but I take a shot at them anyway. I just dont fear an Atlas with it's R torso flaw. Atlas lost the throne a long time ago and needs something. Hardpoints limit what you can do and I'm afraid it will always be so.

I cover Atlai and Dire's with ECM and focus with them quite often. Rather have a Dire next to me.

* I hoped the Banshee would be able to step up here. Not happening. Don't know why and dont see enough to know why. Can the King Crab do it? Hope so.


No.

ggclose

#92 Aluminumfoiled

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 05:36 PM

View PostE N E R G Y, on 21 September 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:


No.

ggclose

I would argue with you because the King has 2 ballistics but I tend to agree with you. It would be like arguing with myself. And I dont want to lose an argument with myself. My dog does this enough already.

Sad Inner Sphere is sad.

#93 Koniving

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 05:57 PM

View PostMalachy Karrde, on 12 September 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

I am loathe to spend real money...can you build an atlas that can go toe to toe with a Daishi?


I've had a few non-meta builds do very well.

RS or Boar's Head with 4 LPL (with or without other weapons). Hits harder than an AC/20 per shot, very cool-running depending on how you build it.

Atlas D 3 LPL, 2 MG, 2 Streaks. Stood toe to toe against a Dire Wolf with 3 UAC/5s, 2 LB-5s and 1 UAC/10 and won (lost a side torso though) at 200 to 300 meters (he surprised me at the back of the entire team and had buddies, I was alone). (His allies killed me after).

Atlas D (yes I have the founder one too). LB-10x + AC/5, 2 streaks, multiple mediums.

Any Atlas with 2 to 3 SRMs + 2 UAC/5s or an AC/20.
Nastiest combination I seen was 2 SRM-4s, AC/20 and AC/2 with 4 medium lasers. Holy crap.
------
Some fights. While the firing style is rigged nothing else is. After the first round the hud is left off for these fights. Third person was used because the 'crosshairs' in third person bounce with the mech's movement, removing perfect pinpoint aim entirely from both sides.

Dire Wolf

Atlas


Round 2
Spoiler


Round 3 was scrapped / never uploaded, but it was also an Atlas win.


Round 4 (Stock Dire wolf versus stock Highlander 733c)
Spoiler


Round 5 (Timber Wolf versus Thunderbolt; both stock.)
Spoiler


#94 Malachy Karrde

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 02:27 PM

After a week of trying various assault mechs, I have found that the stalker is superior to both the Dire Wolf and The Atlas, and my second favorite is a highlander with dual AC 5 in the right arm:)

#95 Ogreman

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 06:59 PM

I drive both.
Dropped dead a dire b up close on d-dc (stealthly jumped in front of him on manifold, let loose the 2x lbx/3x srm6 artemis). Lost side torso, though.
Dueled on prime whale vs. rs in the tunnel on straits, gauss/ppc ripped him.
Hell, even 3xlpl/ac20 misery could face a whale and live, although heavily damaged.

#96 Macc_

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 08:39 PM

These are good discussions to have, but I feel most are missing the point of the OP entirely...

I interpret the situation in question being Atlas VS Dire Wolf in a 1 on 1 dual, with no variables and no outside influences. (YMMV on cover.)
If both are alone, aware of each other's position, facing each other initially, on flat terrain, and possessing equal skill, I would wager Daishi as the victor.

But I could be mistaken.

Obviously an extreme scenario, but that seems to be the spirit of the question.

Edited by Macc 1666, 23 September 2014 - 08:40 PM.


#97 Moonlander

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 09:05 PM

Like others have said, the plus side to an Atlas is that you will always have people with you because of the ECM bubble. Not usually alone or left behind. That helps quite a bit. A Direwolf gets left behind quite a bit. Direwolf's feel a bit more fragile to me, compared to my DDC. It's also so stiff, compared to an Atlas.

#98 Sam Slade

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 10:41 PM

Great Clan era D-DC: STD350, Endo, DHS, AC20, 3xASRM4, 2xLgeLasers, ECM. 3tonAC ammo, 2tonSRM ammo.

I have found this quick enough to get in behind a Direwolf (and stay there) and bust it up severely, provided I don't try to march in and face tank. If you can get an approach that doesn't see you marching into UAC5 rain or a Deathstar with Gauss(and with ECM it's far easier) then you can out turn and out run a Direwolf easily. Only issue is ammo conservation



#99 Asmosis

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 01:53 AM

If the atlas gets the first volley off, he has a fighting chance. as mentioned though the only possible way an atlas can get enough firepower is the <270m brawl build whereas the DWF has the same direct firepower at ~1km, and about 25% more firepower in brawl range, as well as more frontal armor due to insanely small rear clan hitboxes.

#100 Dagon Zur

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 04:04 AM

Whale is bad in indirect combat, so for safer whale hunting try this:

Tools:
+dual AC (AC2+GAUSS, 2xUAC5, 2xAC5, UAC5+AC10, AC5+AC2, LBX10+AC2/AC5, etc...)
+few smaller LRM launchers ( 3xLRM5, LRM10+10, LRM15+10+5, etc..)
+lasers as backup/finishing shots/heat dump (never overheat in front of DW!!!)
+BAP if not DDC
+UAV
+TARGET DECAY MODULE
+RADAR DERPIVATOR MODULE if not DDC


Tactics:

Phase 1 - Finding the whale
Stay near main group, on flank/vanguard if possible, avoid corners and flat terrain and use short buildings and ridges for peeking, exposing only the cockpit for short periods.

Phase 2 - Harassing the whale
When a whale is found, target it with LRMs to put him on defensive.
Use UAV if in range.
Peek only your with your head for LRM targeting, dont expose until the whale starts to recieve LRM damage.

Phase 3 - Harpooning the whale
When the Whale turns or starts retreating or faces another mech (check minimap) , THEN you can get out of cover and unleash AC fire at his most damaged component, keep launching LRMs.
If the whale turns towards you, retreat behind the ridge and and back to phase 2

Repeat until whale dead


my favorite whalers:

AS7-D (2xUAC, 2xLRM10, 4xML , STD335, endo, BAP)
AS7-D-DC (AC2+GAUSS, LRM15+10+5, 2xML, STD300, endo, ECM)


In Short:
LRMs for supression and softening , ACs for DPS, using terrain as your main ally vs the whale. NEVER face it directly!





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