56 replies to this topic

[VanillaG]

Syrkres, on 19 September 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

@VanillaG - That sounds interesting, while I was more interested in just gaining the ability to pilot a mech, to be more realistic you should (as you say) be able to lose the ability to pilot a mech.

Though this reminds me of a game the other day, I hate to say it was a stomping, where the opposing team was too split up and we killed 11 of them, then the last mech ran off and hid. With no loss people are doing this today just to save their KD ration, if you lose the ability to pilot a mech from a death, I think this would cause it even more.

So while I like it and much more realistic, I think it would cause even more people to run...

The gain and loss of salvage points is based purely on win/loss not whether you are killed because the basic premise is that the victor gets the salvage. So if you are killed but your team wins you get enough salvage to rebuild your ride and a little extra to put in the garage for next time. However, if you lose you need to dip into your salvage pool to fix your non-faction mech because you do not get any salvage as the loser.

[Hagoromo Gitsune]

Scrap Yard for People!!! For random!

...so I can wrench-off some lazors from beatten to the death Dire Whale

[Gas Guzzler]

Saxie, on 19 September 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

After thinking about this for a bit... The kills would have to be based per player. What I would fear is much of the same thing that we saw during some of these kill based award events which were supporting less team play and more "zomg gotta get the kill!!11". That is of course if I'm reading it through correctly?

Yeah if it was up to me I would make it so you get bonuses for kills/assists/component destructions/etc, but I'm advocating general salvage points not Mech specific, because as has been said it could take extra long to unlock Mechs that are less popular.

[Sandpit]

I've proposed a few salvage systems over the years, with what we know about CW now I've been mulling over a new thread regarding this but you beat me to it OP, so I'll post it here

Salvage is already a coded mechanic in the game so it wouldn't take much to tweak how the system itself works. The mechanics and code are already implemented, it's just that as of now, you get $$ for salvage instead of the actual components. So instead of that, let us have the components. Here's how it could work:

All salvageable components are put into a "salvage pool" at the end of the round. The winning team gets first crack at the salvage. Players on the winning team get first shot at their own personal salvage.
Example:
I'm on the winning team so before salvage is "rolled for (IE rng)" I get a chance at any salvage that came from my mech. If I miss the roll, then it goes into the "public" salvage pool.

Then the rest of the winning team gets to roll for their shot at the salvage in the public pool. The order would be determined by match score as opposed to # of kills, damage, etc. The match score is based on a player's total performance as opposed to how they performed in one single aspect of the match. Top player gets first shot as well as a bonus % added for being top player and on the winning team (all players on winning team get a bonus regardless). Then the second highest score gets a shot so on and so forth.
Example:
I get high score on winning team. (yea right, I can dream though ) Lets say I have a baseline 25% chance to salvage. I get a 10% bonus for being on the winning team, then I also get a 10% bonus for being top player for a total of 45% chance to win salvage. In order to prevent one player from always getting lucky and getting all the salvage (which is perfectly feasible when talking RNGs), as soon as a player wins a piece of salvage, they are then dropped to the bottom of the list. This only applies to the "public salvage pool" though. You don't drop to the bottom if you win your personal salvage back. The salvage would be listed in order from most expensive to least expensive. So if you have a PPC, a small laser, and a 300 XL engine, the engine would be rolled for first, then the PPC, then the small laser. If the player makes the roll for the XL engine, they win that piece and drop to the bottom of the list and the next player in line gets a crack at the next most expensive piece.

If the top player misses the roll for the XL engine, they would then get to roll for the PPC. If they make that roll it's the same process as above. If they miss it, then they get to roll for the small laser. If they miss all of their rolls they then drop to the bottom of the list and the next player rolls.

Once all players on the winning team have their rolls, the losing team goes through the same process except they don't get the "winning team bonus" (although I think they should also get a bonus based on match score). Once all players have had their rolls, they get one more shot under the same rules above. After the 2nd round of salvage rolls all remaining salvage is converted to cbills (the system we have now) and is dispersed per the current rules.

Now the player has the opportunity to keep salvage they win if they so choose or they can just sell it back via the mechlab in the same manner as selling off excess inventory. This would open the doors to all kinds of different aspects for a true economy in the CW campaign.

This is a rough outline and all numbers and %s are purely for example purposes.

[ApolloKaras]

Sandpit, on 19 September 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

I've proposed a few salvage systems over the years, with what we know about CW now I've been mulling over a new thread regarding this but you beat me to it OP, so I'll post it here

Salvage is already a coded mechanic in the game so it wouldn't take much to tweak how the system itself works. The mechanics and code are already implemented, it's just that as of now, you get $$ for salvage instead of the actual components. So instead of that, let us have the components. Here's how it could work:

All salvageable components are put into a "salvage pool" at the end of the round. The winning team gets first crack at the salvage. Players on the winning team get first shot at their own personal salvage.
Example:
I'm on the winning team so before salvage is "rolled for (IE rng)" I get a chance at any salvage that came from my mech. If I miss the roll, then it goes into the "public" salvage pool.

Then the rest of the winning team gets to roll for their shot at the salvage in the public pool. The order would be determined by match score as opposed to # of kills, damage, etc. The match score is based on a player's total performance as opposed to how they performed in one single aspect of the match. Top player gets first shot as well as a bonus % added for being top player and on the winning team (all players on winning team get a bonus regardless). Then the second highest score gets a shot so on and so forth.
Example:
I get high score on winning team. (yea right, I can dream though ) Lets say I have a baseline 25% chance to salvage. I get a 10% bonus for being on the winning team, then I also get a 10% bonus for being top player for a total of 45% chance to win salvage. In order to prevent one player from always getting lucky and getting all the salvage (which is perfectly feasible when talking RNGs), as soon as a player wins a piece of salvage, they are then dropped to the bottom of the list. This only applies to the "public salvage pool" though. You don't drop to the bottom if you win your personal salvage back. The salvage would be listed in order from most expensive to least expensive. So if you have a PPC, a small laser, and a 300 XL engine, the engine would be rolled for first, then the PPC, then the small laser. If the player makes the roll for the XL engine, they win that piece and drop to the bottom of the list and the next player in line gets a crack at the next most expensive piece.

If the top player misses the roll for the XL engine, they would then get to roll for the PPC. If they make that roll it's the same process as above. If they miss it, then they get to roll for the small laser. If they miss all of their rolls they then drop to the bottom of the list and the next player rolls.

Once all players on the winning team have their rolls, the losing team goes through the same process except they don't get the "winning team bonus" (although I think they should also get a bonus based on match score). Once all players have had their rolls, they get one more shot under the same rules above. After the 2nd round of salvage rolls all remaining salvage is converted to cbills (the system we have now) and is dispersed per the current rules.

Now the player has the opportunity to keep salvage they win if they so choose or they can just sell it back via the mechlab in the same manner as selling off excess inventory. This would open the doors to all kinds of different aspects for a true economy in the CW campaign.

This is a rough outline and all numbers and %s are purely for example purposes.

This is quite good. You wouldn't have to worry about individuals attempting to game the system.

[Gremlich Johns]

To capture a Clan mech factory, you are going to have to go on a looooonnnnnng trip to Clan Space.

http://www.netbattle...map/starmap.php

[Tzion]

I do like the idea of having salvage in the game but there are a couple of problems that I see with the idea. First of all, outside of complete stomps there is generally half the team or more on the winning team who is killed. If we assume that some parts are destroyed during combat (weapons, heat sinks, engines, utilities) not to mention the mechs armor, and so forth, then it could be pretty difficult to get even a single mech, let alone multiple mechs out of the scrap. One major difference between lore and MWO is that in the lore battles are almost never a complete wipe out. Either one side escapes or they surrender. In MWO there is no option to escape or surrender.

Another major issue with the idea that by salvage being available that the IS could get clan mechs. While this would be awesome there is a major problem. First, PGI has already announced that they will not allow mixed tech. Therefore if I gained a clan laser through salvage but did not have a clan mech what would the purpose of me having said laser be. Secondly, this would probably lead to everyone using clan tech.

As far as the season for cw possibly being three months before a reset, I think that is a good idea. For starters, I hope initially they do not allow different factions to defend a planet for a different faction. IE House Liao guarding Draconis planets or Davion guarding Rasalhauge planets. If there are not enough players to provide 12 people for that side to defend the planet then its an auto win for the invader. After the clans reach roughly the maximum distance in that wolf reached than it can be opened up for everyone to defend each others planets if there is not enough players. I doubt this will happen though and I am alright with that. The reason why I believe that it needs to be reset roughly every three months is that what happens for example if a capital is conquored? Do we allow those players who chose that side to continue to play in cw? What happens if an entire group is conquored? Now it does sound like PGI will allow certain worlds to be attacked and others to not be attacked. Like the capitals. Either way what happens if the IS players recapture all of the worlds that the clans have taken? Not to mention 3 months is a really long time considering that we are likely to see planets flip back and forth multiple times in a single day (hopefully).

[PANZERKAT]

If they made salvage, it should be weapons and gear only usable in your CW stable and not solo. Make salvaged gear perma destroyed OR a certain durability that goes down permanently when repaired until it is eventually lost.

[Gas Guzzler]

Most folks here just want to use the cross faction equipment they already have in the solo game, in CW. Who cares about walking home from a match with a new cER Medium Laser...

[PANZERKAT]

People seem to hope they'll be able to slap the best Clan weapons on their favourite IS mech. I suppose it could also me a mech module slot allowing a single weapon that takes up a certain number of slots and 2 mech slots for a single larger weapon. I don't think that would be too crazy.

[Sandpit]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 20 September 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

People seem to hope they'll be able to slap the best Clan weapons on their favourite IS mech. I suppose it could also me a mech module slot allowing a single weapon that takes up a certain number of slots and 2 mech slots for a single larger weapon. I don't think that would be too crazy.

I haven't seen many asking for that, I sincerely doubt that's the majority of players wanting a salvage system.

[Iyica de Tylmarande]

I would rather it work this way:

If you kill a mech not normally accesible to your faction, you get to use it until you lose it yourself (e.g Summoner for an Inner Sphere player).

If you lose a mech associated with your faction (e.g. Dragon for a Kurita player), it will have no impact and you can keep fielding it.

If an IS player loses an IS mech that isn't associated with their faction (e.g. Vindicator for a Steiner player), they can keep fielding it but incur a c-bill penalty if they lose it to account for the cost of ordering parts that aren't readily available to your faction.

[Sandpit]

Iyica de Tylmarande, on 21 September 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

I would rather it work this way:

If you kill a mech not normally accesible to your faction, you get to use it until you lose it yourself (e.g Summoner for an Inner Sphere player).

If you lose a mech associated with your faction (e.g. Dragon for a Kurita player), it will have no impact and you can keep fielding it.

If an IS player loses an IS mech that isn't associated with their faction (e.g. Vindicator for a Steiner player), they can keep fielding it but incur a c-bill penalty if they lose it to account for the cost of ordering parts that aren't readily available to your faction.

I'd rather see individual component salvage only for now. Get the system tweaked and balances before considering entire mechs for it.

With that said, I'd like to see it eventually. If a player wins a cross-faction (clan or IS) mech that they normally wouldn't have access to, I'd like to see them able to use it but at a higher repair rate. That would simulate the problems with techs trying to work on unfamiliar equipment.

Example:
I'm an IS pilot and salvage a Nova. I can then use the mech and it's available in my hangar, but it costs a higher rate to repair it and keep it combat worthy. These salvaged mechs would also only be available in my CW hangar and would not come with a mech bay. So if I have 10 bays that are all full, I would either have to buy a new bay (using LP or some such as these bays wouldn't carry over to the "public queue") or sell an existing mech to make room. The mech I sell I could have the option of either selling it on the BM for a higher price or I could sell it back to the faction for a lower price but a small amount of LP as well.

[PANZERKAT]

I think a system where you actually gain gear to keep undermines any kind of monetary gating they have in place. Not that there's any economy to speak of. I personally don't think its smart to hand out free gear that people keep forever until sold.

Salvaging mechs is completely out of the question unless it can be permanently destroyed from your roster...which...would be really cool. It would make seeing cross faction on a map out of the norm and a heated match for sure.

[Sandpit]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 21 September 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

I think a system where you actually gain gear to keep undermines any kind of monetary gating they have in place. Not that there's any economy to speak of. I personally don't think its smart to hand out free gear that people keep forever until sold.

Salvaging mechs is completely out of the question unless it can be permanently destroyed from your roster...which...would be really cool. It would make seeing cross faction on a map out of the norm and a heated match for sure.

you do realize that was suggested strictly for CW and has no bearing on anything outside of CW right? A player's CW hangar, resources, etc. would all be tied to the CW section. The public queue would be completely unaffected by any of this.

[Joe Mallad]

With me being a Merc and while I would love to see Mercs get the option to use both IS and Clan Mecs, that would be unfair to the House players that would want to also use Clan mechs.

Now while Mercs and House "might" have gotten ahold of some Clan mechs and salvaged a few to be used against the Clans... In Cannon BT/MW it really did not happen all that often. And when it did happen, most Merc units that were hired to fight the Clans had it in their contracts that the House that hired them got full salvage rights, not the Merc unit.

And most Houses didn't have the knowhow nor the time to learn how to use or reverse engineer the Clan tech that fast. So again, not much of it was captured/salvaged to the point of being used against the clans.

And on the side of the Clans. It you are a "true Clan purest" you would not be caught playing an inferior IS mech anyway. So that option would rightfully be off the table for Clan players.

Right away, I say keep it Clan mechs and tech VS IS mechs and tech. Let it play out like cannon and then later start to instigate the tech when the new major threat of "The Word of Blake" rears its dark head. Then the IS/Clan merger will be finalized and the WOB and Com Guards would be the two new major factions that people can play for. And then the real fun will start. At that point the Com star (only) Mechs will be the next big thing

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 21 September 2014 - 05:58 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I think this basic concept has promise, especially with the "seasons" proposal PGI has been floating.

I'd like to see salvage rights based on your record during a season, complete with in-game progress trackers in your mech bay. As your team gets kills on mechs of the opposite tech base (I'd prefer this only work for IS with Clan salvage, but the Clan players will QQ if they don't get salvage too), the progress bar begins to fill in. Once a progress bar is full, you have earned salvage rights to that variant/configuration. This could take any arbitrary number of kills for your team, but I'd say at least 10, probably more like 100.

Progress carries over per season. However, completing a salvage unlock during a season does not immediately unlock the mech. Rather, it means you'll have access to it at the beginning of the next season, and every season thereafter.