Jump to content

Give Us - Expansion Packs, Not Mech Packs - How To Monetize Maps And Features But Not Split The Community.


36 replies to this topic

#1 maxdest

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 137 posts

Posted 11 September 2014 - 12:52 PM

EDIT: IN THIS IDEA MAPS / FEATURES ARE FREE TO ALL - PLEASE READ THE FULL POST

EDIT 2: Amended idea with input from community to allow purchasers to vote on which content to implement. Also a picture example.


We all know the mech packs and the way they are used to monetize MWO.

Many of us want other things apart from mechs; Things like:
------> More maps
------> More game modes
------> More metagame (community warfare)

The problem is you cannot monetize these items or you will split the community.


But... you can monetize maps and features without splitting the community
The way this works is that you tie a mech pack to themed maps / features as stretch goals chosen by purchasers but available to all for free.

------> The mechs are exclusive to purchasers
------> The features / maps are offered free to everyone at the same time
------> More mech pack sales = more features / maps for all
------> Purchasers get to vote on what content they want implemented.


Benefits over the traditional mech pack
------> Encourages customers whom want non-mech items to contribute
------> Focuses and commits PGI to delivery of non-mech items by monetizing them.
------> Makes each pack more of an event (even for non purchasers) and more likely to get publicity. Expansion pack > mech pack.
------> Engages community and allows choice


Example 1: Clan invasion - Wave Two pack

Posted Image


Example 2: Solaris pack
New mech pack of four heroes using existing chassis. These heroes would be themed around Solaris champion mechs and have an extra +10% cbill bonus in Solaris game mode] In addition to the heroes a new Solaris game mode (all vs all) would be introduced, along with one arena map.

------> Additional feature - Weekly Solaris leader board 20k votes
------> Additional feature - Solaris voice over announcer 10k votes
------> Additional content - Arena map pack - 5k , 10k and 20k votes


So does anyone like the idea?

Edited by maxdest, 12 September 2014 - 04:47 PM.


#2 Hellcat420

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • 1,520 posts

Posted 11 September 2014 - 02:26 PM

no

#3 Naduk

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 1,575 posts
  • LocationAustralia

Posted 11 September 2014 - 02:37 PM

NO NO NO NO NO
a million times NO

do you know what that does ? it splits the community
anybody who does not buy a map pack cannot play with the people who did
this turns out 1 of two ways ,
1. very little use of all those maps due to pay gates, and very very small populations spread amongst them, populations get split each time you put out a new pack
2. nobody buys them because they bought 1 and never get to play them because half their friends/unit/group (it takes 1 friend to stop a whole group) did not own it, so with each pack less and less people bother owning them and just play the core maps

mechs are the perfect way to earn $ for pgi
everyone gets them and everybody's collection is different but players are not split because of it
i can even go and fight against the fans who own clan mechs when the separation comes in CW
it does not matter that i did not and will not buy any clan mechs i can still play with my MWO brothers who did

maps will always be added to this game, maps have not been on the production list for a while for a platitude of reasons, but they are back in production again (with a min of 3 new maps we know of)
CW is in full swing
so automatically you are getting what you want with out the need to split the player base at all

#4 Apnu

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 2,083 posts
  • LocationMidWest

Posted 11 September 2014 - 02:40 PM

I like the notion of expansion packs and it is a industry standard thing to do, but we need a complete game first. CW has to be up fully and Role Warfare has to be more fleshed out and yes, we need more maps for the basic release.

#5 Dirkdaring

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • 685 posts
  • LocationTwycross

Posted 11 September 2014 - 03:04 PM

View PostNaduk, on 11 September 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

NO NO NO NO NO
a million times NO

do you know what that does ? it splits the community
anybody who does not buy a map pack cannot play with the people who did


You might want to read his post again.

#6 Edustaja

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • LocationFinland

Posted 11 September 2014 - 03:05 PM

I like the idea.

Read the original post. OP never proposed a paywall for the maps, just that they are marked as content that is released for everyone at the same time when certain number of mechs are sold. Like real community goals.

Basically you just sell the mechs, but the maps are the bonus kicker that makes selling a quantity of mechs more compelling for the community.

#7 Appogee

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 10,967 posts
  • LocationOn planet Tukayyid, celebrating victory

Posted 11 September 2014 - 03:11 PM

There is flaw with your cunning plan.

First, PGI would actually have to make some maps... something they haven't had the resourcesto do for the better part of a year, because they've been churning out Clan Mechs.

#8 Ghogiel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2021 Gold Champ
  • CS 2021 Gold Champ
  • 6,852 posts

Posted 11 September 2014 - 03:24 PM

Honestly? While I don't dislike the idea IF it actually promoted more sales for the packages than would have otherwise been sold with it just being mech content with goodies thrown in.

Seeing as the only thing you put down there as features are maps... I really think community map making is the way forward here if all you want is new, interesting, good looking maps equal or better than the ones we have currently.

#9 Xenon Codex

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Bolt
  • The Bolt
  • 575 posts
  • LocationSomewhere Over the Rainbow

Posted 11 September 2014 - 03:37 PM

I don't really think your map idea is very sound, simply due to the time and resources it takes to make them I don't feel they should be a "bonus".

However, I do believe that your general idea is sound. We should pay for what we want and vote with our dollars. I don't have the answers. Maybe something as simple as a poll when you buy MC where you check which feature you'd like to see next...i.e. more maps, more mechs, more game modes, more modules, etc. Some way to let the paying customers influence direction.

Keep coming up with ideas though, and thanks for posting.

#10 Khobai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 23,969 posts

Posted 11 September 2014 - 04:02 PM

I think the only real option for us to get more maps is to get the community involved in map making.

Because it costs PGI little or nothing and I guarantee you community made maps will be of the same quality or higher than the current maps we have now.

#11 CMDR Sunset Shimmer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 5,341 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationNetherlands

Posted 11 September 2014 - 04:10 PM

View Postmaxdest, on 11 September 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

How things are
We all know the mech packs and the way they are used to monetize MWO.

Many of us want other things apart from mechs; Things like:
------> More maps
------> More game modes
------> More metagame (community warfare)

The problem is you cannot monetize these items or you will split the community.


But... you can monetize maps and features
The way this works is that you tie a mech pack to themed maps / features.

------> The mechs are exclusive to purchasers
------> The features / maps are offered to all and released staggered like the mechs
------> More mech pack sales = more features / maps for all


Benefits over the traditional mech pack
------> Encourages customers whom want non-mech items to contribute
------> Focuses and commits PGI to delivery of non-mech items by monetizing them
------> Makes each pack more of an event (even for non purchasers) and more likely to get publicity. Expansion pack > content pack.


Example 1: Clan invasion - Wave Two pack
New mech pack of four clan mechs that you purchase, as per usual. However the more mech packs sold, the more new maps that are delivered. All new maps are themed around wave two clan targets in lore (but would obviously be used for more than one planet in CW)

------> 1,000 packs sold = Trondheim - Lava themed map
------> 5,000 packs sold = Mannendorf - Canyon themed map
------> 10,000 packs sold = Twycross - Desert themed map
------> 20,000 maps sold = Garstedt - Ice themed map
------> 30,000 packs sold = Wotan - Temperate themed map

NOTE: volume of sales is just an example


Example 2: Solaris pack
New mech pack of four heroes using existing chassis. These heroes would be themed around Solaris champion mechs and have an extra +10% cbill bonus in Solaris game mode] In addition to the heroes a new Solaris game mode (all vs all) would be introduced, along with one arena map.

------> 5,000 packs sold = Additional arena map
------> 10,000 packs sold = Additional arena map
------> 20,000 packs sold = New feature - ingame weekly leader board for Solaris matches


So does anyone like the idea?


Monitizing maps brings a disparity in the playerbase due to the situation of players who do not have the new maps being unable to join in.

Meaning a seemingly shrinking playerbase.

Meaning less money in the long run.

It's why games have moved to F2P over the Expansion system. Trust me, I PREFER expansion packs, but flat out, there are instances where I don't have the cash to get those packs. And then that causes problems in units where other players in the unit have the packs, but you do not.

It just ends up a mess for everyone. The system, as is now, works best.

#12 CrashieJ

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,435 posts
  • LocationGalatea (Mercenary's Star)

Posted 11 September 2014 - 04:21 PM

**** no.

#13 KamikazeRat

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 711 posts

Posted 11 September 2014 - 04:22 PM

View PostFlash Frame, on 11 September 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:


Monitizing maps brings a disparity in the playerbase due to the situation of players who do not have the new maps being unable to join in.



oh man, read...this has already been said, and then shot down, read.... then comment....how hard is that?


anyway, i like the idea of promised goods with set values of mech pack sales. but from what it seems like they plan on churning out these things at the best rate they can anyway(after CW of course) and then it goes back to the problem of what if you don't want maps but you want more game modes, you put your money into these mech packs, cause you want the mechs too, and your "bonus" is maps you couldnt care less about.

better idea is XenonCx's idea, when you buy MC, a vote pops up, "check next to the project or projects you want to see" that way, you can vote with your wallet, no ambiguity. no forum polls that can be biased. the things the majority of paying players want is the next focus. they could even balance it per player, or per dollar. or have some ratio of the two.

#14 Xarian

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Wrath
  • 997 posts

Posted 11 September 2014 - 04:55 PM

It's a good idea. Xenon's idea is also good.

- Every X sales of "Premium Expansion Packs", PGI creates a new feature.
- Every time you buy an expansion pack like this, you vote on which feature will get created.
- At the end of some time period, that feature starts getting made.
- Then you start over again.
- Features get released in the order that they were voted in, unless something catastrophic happens.

#15 Warblood

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hunter
  • The Hunter
  • 503 posts
  • LocationMontreal, Qc, Cnd

Posted 11 September 2014 - 05:15 PM

Dont we already have this? they sell (C) or (H)mech or Clans, they get $$ then make more content. ummm yeah, we already have this, just with out the voting on what we want next.

#16 DAYLEET

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 4,316 posts
  • LocationLinoleum.

Posted 11 September 2014 - 05:24 PM

It works for Battlefield4 and it's not a free to play game that relies on the people buying more. It does not split the community, why would it split the community in a free to play game that exist thanks to everyone contributing with a small ammount of cash. Because you dont want to contribute?

I agree, stop selling mech pack. Release mech for mc/cbills on the same day, no preorder bs. and sell us expansion with 3 maps every 4 months for 120$. add a few free goodies in there too so people are happy.

#17 Quxudica

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • 1,858 posts

Posted 11 September 2014 - 05:44 PM

View Postmaxdest, on 11 September 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

How things are
We all know the mech packs and the way they are used to monetize MWO.

Many of us want other things apart from mechs; Things like:
------> More maps
------> More game modes
------> More metagame (community warfare)

The problem is you cannot monetize these items or you will split the community.


But... you can monetize maps and features
The way this works is that you tie a mech pack to themed maps / features.

------> The mechs are exclusive to purchasers
------> The features / maps are offered to all and released staggered like the mechs
------> More mech pack sales = more features / maps for all


Benefits over the traditional mech pack
------> Encourages customers whom want non-mech items to contribute
------> Focuses and commits PGI to delivery of non-mech items by monetizing them
------> Makes each pack more of an event (even for non purchasers) and more likely to get publicity. Expansion pack > content pack.


Example 1: Clan invasion - Wave Two pack
New mech pack of four clan mechs that you purchase, as per usual. However the more mech packs sold, the more new maps that are delivered. All new maps are themed around wave two clan targets in lore (but would obviously be used for more than one planet in CW)

------> 1,000 packs sold = Trondheim - Lava themed map
------> 5,000 packs sold = Mannendorf - Canyon themed map
------> 10,000 packs sold = Twycross - Desert themed map
------> 20,000 maps sold = Garstedt - Ice themed map
------> 30,000 packs sold = Wotan - Temperate themed map

NOTE: volume of sales is just an example


Example 2: Solaris pack
New mech pack of four heroes using existing chassis. These heroes would be themed around Solaris champion mechs and have an extra +10% cbill bonus in Solaris game mode] In addition to the heroes a new Solaris game mode (all vs all) would be introduced, along with one arena map.

------> 5,000 packs sold = Additional arena map
------> 10,000 packs sold = Additional arena map
------> 20,000 packs sold = New feature - ingame weekly leader board for Solaris matches


So does anyone like the idea?



I miss the days of gaming when development thought was more "How do we make this game fun enough for people to buy" and not "how do we chop up our content best to sell piecemeal for massive markups". I miss the days when "Expansions" were a real thing with a large amount of content designed to make the game better, sold at one all inclusive price point.

The longer I'm exposed to free to play as a model, and even dlc in other games, the more I hate what it's doing to my hobby. Even games with exceptionally good F2P business models, like Path of Exile, suffer from the model.. introducing way more grind then they otherwise would, holding back the best art to be sold for markup, and worst of all.. selling solutions to problems they put into the game itself.

Quote

It works for Battlefield4 and it's not a free to play game that relies on the people buying more. It does not split the community, why would it split the community in a free to play game that exist thanks to everyone contributing with a small ammount of cash. Because you dont want to contribute?

I agree, stop selling mech pack. Release mech for mc/cbills on the same day, no preorder bs. and sell us expansion with 3 maps every 4 months for 120$. add a few free goodies in there too so people are happy.


A really really really bloody terrible idea. Beyond terrible. Competitive titles should never sell maps, ever. This gives an unfair advantage to those who buy in early, (more importantly) it splits the player base between those who own them and those who don't (which will lead to lopsided queues, even deserted ones), effectively strongarms players into purchasing it if they want to play with friends who own them, and is just a terribly ethically repugnant thing for a company to do. CoD and Battlefield get away with it because they have trained the DLC generation of gamers to accept it (and have massive playerbases to support the division), but that doesn't mean it's a good practice. Even if you are selling an expansion, the maps and game modes should be part of a free pre-expansion update even if you don't own it.

There was a time when, if you told a competitive pc gamer he'd have to buy maps and map packs, they'd laugh their ass off at you. These things were free as a matter of course and were such for very good reasons.

Also 120 bucks for an expansion.. containing three maps? Full priced games are 60 at most when not counting collector edition BS, an expansion is not a full game by definition and thus is always cheaper than the initial game. Map packs are also not Expansions, expansions (as they used to be anyway) add large chunks of content to the game, new modes, new items, new systems, balance changes, improvements, and all manner of things, sometimes they nearly reinvented the game itself. Something is massively wrong with the industry if people are getting to a point where they see three maps being worth what entire game collections used to cost.

Edited by Quxudica, 11 September 2014 - 05:49 PM.


#18 Tremendous Upside

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 738 posts

Posted 11 September 2014 - 05:46 PM

Just eat the grab deals. You've been getting them every ~9 months (from when we hit open beta), and you'll continue to get them until there's a viable long term monetization strategy here. Until people start buying premium time, consumables, and MC (for modules, GXP, customizations), it's going to be a fact of life. Something's gotta pay the bills.

#19 Quxudica

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • 1,858 posts

Posted 11 September 2014 - 06:06 PM

View PostBanky, on 11 September 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

Just eat the grab deals. You've been getting them every ~9 months (from when we hit open beta), and you'll continue to get them until there's a viable long term monetization strategy here. Until people start buying premium time, consumables, and MC (for modules, GXP, customizations), it's going to be a fact of life. Something's gotta pay the bills.



This seems like a backwards view on this issue, to me anyway. The community shouldn't be expected to eat a bad business model to support the devs no matter how much they may love the product, it should be up to the dev's to figure out how to improve their business model so more people see it as good value for their money.

A service issue, which this is at its core, is the responsibility of the service provider. The responsible consumer's only concern is whether or not the service is good value for their money, if it isn't then it is entirely correct for them to not spend their money on it until it does become good value for money.

Supporting something you enjoy is fine, but it's not a charity. Even if I love a product, I'm not going to pay massive markups on it when I don't see the value I'm getting in return as worth the cost.

#20 DAYLEET

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 4,316 posts
  • LocationLinoleum.

Posted 11 September 2014 - 06:07 PM

Im thinking keep the model we have now but make forum use 10$ a months. New players forum is open to everyone and any post not pertaining to new player gets deleted. If monetising forum keept Novalogic alive for so long without any kind of new content it can surely keep mwo going for ages.

Edited by DAYLEET, 11 September 2014 - 06:07 PM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users