39 replies to this topic

[A banana in the tailpipe]

This is pretty much the only "game breaking" thing ATM, and I cannot fathom how the matchmaker cannot place at least one ECM mech per side. It's demoralizing from the moment the match starts and creates the kind of stomps that drives players out of the game. This issue only gets worse when the map has poor cover such as Caustic or Alpine. Has Paul given any thought on how to correct such a glaring issue, and I'd love to hear if they have any sort of solution towards this simple quality of life factor that would go a long way towards balancing out pug matches so the game doesn't continue to bleed new casual/players.

[Mercules]

So not true. Is the match possibly more difficult? Yes. Is it absolutely more difficult? Not necessarily. Is it winnable? Definately. Is it an auto-loss? No.

Maybe the issue isn't the lack of ECM but some other common factor to all of your teams.

[Xtrekker]

You know...the easy fix...you can take ECM. Homogenizing the entire system to suit your playstyle is a little over the top.

[Voidcrafter]

Xtrekker, on 11 September 2014 - 10:03 PM, said:

You know...the easy fix...you can take ECM. Homogenizing the entire system to suit your playstyle is a little over the top.

What have always bugged me - what's the point of ECM aside of being counter to LRMs?
Yea yea, scrambling and sheet.
Really now. What's the point?
Riiiiight.
I particularly don't care about LRMs in any other cases rather than 4 LRM boats in the opposite team to be honest - and to be honest again that case occurs quite often - but the idea of having a single piece of equipment to neglect a whole weapon system is kinda wrong for me.
I play with LRMs too by the way - now and then - the last ~2 weeks I haven't, just for the sole reason it really feels like an easy mode(in solo Q).
When it feels like a hard mode in group Q is just because 4/5/6 fellas from the enemy team have picked up ECM for no reason at all, just for the phract of it.
You see my point now?
Everyone claims that LRMs kill only the new, misguided, not skilled, etc. players, but even those that claim it bring 3+ ECMs to the group play.
Now return to the beginning of my post.
If you still see no issue I can't really add anything else to the topic

Edit: Added a bit of dramatism

Edited by Voidcrafter, 11 September 2014 - 10:12 PM.

[Flyby215]

lockwoodx, on 11 September 2014 - 09:30 PM, said:

This is pretty much the only "game breaking" thing ATM, and I cannot fathom how the matchmaker cannot place at least one ECM mech per side. It's demoralizing from the moment the match starts and creates the kind of stomps that drives players out of the game. This issue only gets worse when the map has poor cover such as Caustic or Alpine. Has Paul given any thought on how to correct such a glaring issue, and I'd love to hear if they have any sort of solution towards this simple quality of life factor that would go a long way towards balancing out pug matches so the game doesn't continue to bleed new casual/players.

I can understand where you're coming from, and I think the point is very valid. Mercules is also right; not having ECM is not an automatic loss. Aside from 20-30-odd matches to master out the 3L, I never run ECM myself and often don't have any on the team (even if I do, it often runs off on its own anyway). Stay near cover if missiles are a problem, stay mobile. Carry AMS! It doesn't feel like it does anything since you will always be rocked by missiles (no matter how many or how few hit) but if you watch the damage on your mech-doll, AMS really does help buy time (won't save you, but it buys a little time to get into cover!).

So, not a total loss.... but, here's the kicker: an **experienced** player knows how to handle the situation without ECM. Getting said experience takes time, matches, losses. Players lose interest after so many losses, and don't come back. The new player experience, in my humble opinion, is still quite terrible. ECM balancing I think is one of these issues, as you point out. At least even if you have ECM but the ECM player is a complete moron at least you can say "well it was his fault not mine". This may very well go a long way for the new player experience.

[Lykaon]

Voidcrafter, on 11 September 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

What have always bugged me - what's the point of ECM aside of being counter to LRMs?
Yea yea, scrambling and sheet.
Really now. What's the point?
Riiiiight.
I particularly don't care about LRMs in any other cases rather than 4 LRM boats in the opposite team to be honest - and to be honest again that case occurs quite often - but the idea of having a single piece of equipment to neglect a whole weapon system is kinda wrong for me.
I play with LRMs too by the way - now and then - the last ~2 weeks I haven't, just for the sole reason it really feels like an easy mode(in solo Q).
When it feels like a hard mode in group Q is just because 4/5/6 fellas from the enemy team have picked up ECM for no reason at all, just for the phract of it.
You see my point now?
Everyone claims that LRMs kill only the new, misguided, not skilled, etc. players, but even those that claim it bring 3+ ECMs to the group play.

You are seriously under valuing the Sensor jamming effects of ECM. The reason you see ECM in use by veteran players is because veteran players are the players that know the true value of ECM is not as a super powered AMS but for the sensor jamming effects it provides.

Most puggies will not ever realize the potance of ECM because these additional jamming effects do not effect disorganized play.It is fairly difficult to increase the disorganization in a disorganized mob.ECM however does have the potential to sow confusion and disinformation when used against organized players.

A puggie will play as a solo in a mob of solos.PUGs do not need to know what a target's designation is,it's grid referance or it's loadout they just need to "see" it and spam weapon fire at it until it or they are destroyed.

A premade team member does use this information and frequently.A drop commander will call focus targets.The criteria for a focus target is not always the first enemy seen (that is generaly the entire criteria in a pug match) The focus target may be chosen based on loadout,possition,condition or even pilot,all data that is hidden by active ECM.In addition the method a skilled drop commander calls a focus target is Mech designation (Alpha - Lima) Mech grid location (Grid India Five!) and mech type (Direwolf) With no ECM obfuscating the battle it is a simple matter of seeing and calling targets,but with ECM the DC (drop commander) does not know the critical data to make a clear focus target designation.The highly accurate data provided by uninterupted sensors is replaced with an order more like...

Shoot the direwolf or warhawk that's near grid G4 or 5,I think it's blue... and not ...Target Bravo,Direwolf,Golf four! Left torso is crit.

ECM can and does exstend the survival of damaged mechs covered by it's jamming effects.A severely damaged mech that still has all it's parts attached (ruby red CT with no armor) looks a lot like a fully intact mech if ECM prevents the enemy from seeing your mechs condition.If clearly detected as criticaly damaged this target would be quickly removed from play but because the information about it's condition is obfuscated by ECM the enemy may not realize this target's critical condition and prioritize another target over an easy ellimination.This has the effect of improving survival for any mechs that have critical data obfuscated by ECM.This is a big deal.

Next situation.If you are willy and crafty sort of team you use several chassis of the same basic type painted the same.When the enemy has engaged you they can not be sure if that particular Timberwolf is the same Timberwolf that has it's RT mauled or is it the Timberwolf with the chewed up legs? Guess I need to get closer to see the graphical damage on the mech since ECM is keeping my sensors from telling me if I should aim low or aim right and high.as a result ECM has improved the survival time of mechs by preventing the clear display of weakened body segments as well as preventing the enemy from seeing if your mech is Alpha Timberwolf or Bravo Timberwolf or even Charlie Timberwolf since all three have the same paintjob.

[STEF_]

The point is..... ECM should not cover friendly unit.....
And LRM should not have indirect fire without narc/tag.

but, ehy, this is not Battletech TT..... we all know.

[Blood Rose]

lockwoodx, on 11 September 2014 - 09:30 PM, said:

This is pretty much the only "game breaking" thing ATM, and I cannot fathom how the matchmaker cannot place at least one ECM mech per side. It's demoralizing from the moment the match starts and creates the kind of stomps that drives players out of the game.

Advanced Tactical Missiles We dont get those for another couple of years or so.....

[Mercules]

Stefka Kerensky, on 12 September 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

The point is..... ECM should not cover friendly unit.....
And LRM should not have indirect fire without narc/tag.

but, ehy, this is not Battletech TT..... we all know.

Um.... but in Battletech TT LRMs have indirect fire without NARC/TAG and ECM makes the role to determine if there are enemy mechs in range in Double Blind games much harder meaning you typically have to be much closer to detect them(Now the ECM distances are a bit off in MWO). So..... what was your point about this not being Battletech TT?

[Angel of Annihilation]

Depends on the map to be honest. If there is plenty of cover to avoid LRMs, the ECM isn't quite as important, but if your on a map like Caustic (especially like Caustic) where the fight happens around the Caldera which doesn't have sides high enough to screen against LRMs, yeah not having an ECM mech is always a total loss.

[Livewyr]

In the case of disorganized solo queue drops, this is pretty well true. (Especially if there are a lot of LRMs on the side that does not have ECM.)

ECM definitely needs fixed.

I simply do not bring LRMs any more because they are too "feast or famine."

[Trevor Belmont]

Agreed. It's a bit crappy when playing PUG and one team will have 3 ECMs and the other Zero.

[Bulletsponge0]

I've won numerous pug matches on both caustic and alpine with teams with no ECM
I've lost numerous matches on both caustic and alpine on teams with multiple ECMs against teams with no ECM

ECM isn't game breaking, nor is it the deciding factor on what team wins or loses....(teamwork, and tactics are the main deciding factors on what teams win or lose)

next time you are on a team without ECM, I suggest you make that fact known to the team and suggest tactics that can negate any enemy ECM and LRMs (UAV, close the distance, etc)...I've found that the pug team will respond positively to those comments the vast majority of the time

[Jacob Side]

Completely False

[Joseph Mallan]

lockwoodx, on 11 September 2014 - 09:30 PM, said:

This is pretty much the only "game breaking" thing ATM, and I cannot fathom how the matchmaker cannot place at least one ECM mech per side. It's demoralizing from the moment the match starts and creates the kind of stomps that drives players out of the game. This issue only gets worse when the map has poor cover such as Caustic or Alpine. Has Paul given any thought on how to correct such a glaring issue, and I'd love to hear if they have any sort of solution towards this simple quality of life factor that would go a long way towards balancing out pug matches so the game doesn't continue to bleed new casual/players.

Bit of an overstatement there Lock. Not completely wrong but a bit of a stretch.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 September 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

Bit of an overstatement there Lock. Not completely wrong but a bit of a stretch.

I was a bit grumpy last night because the MM was worse than I've seen it in months with the same names stomping the same pugs match after match. Some (well known names from these forums no less had the lack of class to complain the matches were "boring" and "not even a challenge". Boy how I wish I could name and shame those suckers) Lack of ECM was just gasoline on the fire. The thing is you should know I'm talking about pugging because every organized group will have at least 1 ECM because they understand the importance of how game breaking/changing it is. Pugging on the other hand is a roll of the dice, and last night them dice were loaded. Played a little less than a dozen matches and 4 completely stomps occured back to back to back to back. Whatever damage the bad PR campaign from Redditgate did, it was massive because participation was so dismal the same names kept popping up on the other teams. Thus, I took one, the most glaring example of why stomps occur in the first place (lack of ECM) and decided to highlight it in this thread. Now I'm off to go PM those stomps to Mr. Science thread guy for his data.

Good day

Blood Rose, on 12 September 2014 - 04:15 AM, said:

Advanced Tactical Missiles We dont get those for another couple of years or so.....

Oh you!

Mercules, on 11 September 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

So not true. Is the match possibly more difficult? Yes. Is it absolutely more difficult? Not necessarily. Is it winnable? Definately. Is it an auto-loss? No.

Maybe the issue isn't the lack of ECM but some other common factor to all of your teams.

99.9% auto loss. Happy?

Edited by lockwoodx, 12 September 2014 - 07:41 AM.

[Bulletsponge0]

lockwoodx, on 12 September 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

I was a bit grumpy last night because the MM was worse than I've seen it in months with the same names stomping the same pugs match after match. Lack of ECM was just gasoline on the fire. The thing is you should know I'm talking about pugging because every organized group will have at least 1 ECM because they understand the importance of how game breaking/changing it is. Pugging on the other hand is a roll of the dice, and last night them dice were loaded. Played a little less than a dozen matches and 4 completely stomps occured back to back to back to back. Whatever damage the bad PR campaign from Redditgate did, it was massive because participation was so dismal the same names kept popping up on the other teams. Thus, I took one, the most glaring example of why stomps occur in the first place (lack of ECM) and decided to highlight it in this thread. Now I'm off to go PM those stomps to Mr. Science thread guy for his data.

Good day



Oh you!

Call me naive...but what is this reddit PR disaster I'm hearing about?

(or will mentioning it get the thread locked/k-towned/deleted??)

[Kalimaster]

ECM cannot protect you from laser fire. ECM works against missiles, and a larger number of players build brawlers or snipers.

[Metus regem]

When I see ECM mechs on the OP-4, I gun for the ECM locations, thank you to smurfy for all the hard work that you do, if you can take off the DDC's left torso, it will not have ECM, take off the Kit Fox's right arm on and remove the ECM, kill the LT on the Commando 2D, kill the ECM.... you see the pattern?

Rather than spread your damage everywhere like a near-sighed grandmother with a minigun, trying to pad your damage score, be effective with your damage, and learn the ECM locations.

[Fut]

Mercules, on 11 September 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

Maybe the issue isn't the lack of ECM but some other common factor to all of your teams.

Yeah, the common factor making them win is their attitudes. They don't see ECM on their team, so they all give up before they even begin.

Sad really.