14 replies to this topic

[Xevius Von Morrigan]

I have notice that every 'mechs have the same internal space, from locust (20 t) to Atlas (100 t).
The engines too occupy the same number of slots despite the difference in weight (from 1 t to 59.5 t).

Am I the only one thinking that it is strange?

[Tezcatli]

I'm sure this was done for simplicity sake. You can make a similar comparison to the fact that 20 points of armor are the same on a Locust as on an Atlas despite the difference in surface. If things were to scale.

Though you can probably make a case for the slots and equipment on smaller mechs are proportional smaller. Of course the costs and weights are largely the same across all of the weight classes.

Edited by Tezcatli, 12 September 2014 - 03:53 PM.

[Xevius Von Morrigan]

20 point of armor weight the same amount in every 'mechs (standard armor -> 0.63 t, ferro fibrous -> 0.56 t) and larger 'mechs can equip more armor.
About equipment, if you are right (smaller 'mechs have smaller slots), I would like to equip light 'mechs weapons in assault one: they should be smaller.

But mine is only a theoretical debate....

[Impyrium]

Nope, because that's how BattleTech was built around. Logical or not, changing that would make BT fans like me grumpy and would be a nightmare to balance.

[Scratx]

Welcome to Table Top mech construction rules.

Sanity is that way. *points to /dev/null*

[Carrie Harder]

It's an artifact of the original BT construction system.

It's weird, no doubt, but I don't find it to be imbalanced. If anything, it's somewhat of an equalizer. If smaller robots had fewer critslots available than larger robots, it would just feed the arm's race even more than it's already going. It would especially hurt mechs with engines lower than 250 rating, like the Locust and Commando who would get roflstomp nerfed into the ground by such a change (external DHS already eating up a lot of slots). This is one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" situations.

[Kvaneal]

for balance. corerule ignore.

Edited by Kvaneal, 12 September 2014 - 07:05 PM.

[Xevius Von Morrigan]

I don't know Table Top game but I think a light mech cannot equip a big weapon (Gauss rifle, AC/20, for example).
There should be, perhaps, a way to limit weapon size in battlemechs.

In any case I like the game.

[ApolloKaras]

Xevius Von Morrigan, on 14 September 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

I don't know Table Top game but I think a light mech cannot equip a big weapon (Gauss rifle, AC/20, for example).
There should be, perhaps, a way to limit weapon size in battlemechs.

In any case I like the game.

Yeah but look @ what you have to give up to equip that.

[Carrie Harder]

Xevius Von Morrigan, on 14 September 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

I don't know Table Top game but I think a light mech cannot equip a big weapon (Gauss rifle, AC/20, for example).
There should be, perhaps, a way to limit weapon size in battlemechs.

In any case I like the game.

Light mechs use "big" weapons all the time.
















And many more that I can't remember at the moment.

Edited by Carrie Harder, 14 September 2014 - 08:42 AM.

[stjobe]

Xevius Von Morrigan, on 14 September 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

I don't know Table Top game but I think a light mech cannot equip a big weapon (Gauss rifle, AC/20, for example).

The only thing stopping a light 'mech from equipping something is tonnage and available crit slots; there's no other restrictions. As Ms. Carrie showed above, there's plenty of lights with oversized weaponry in BT.

Xevius Von Morrigan, on 14 September 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

There should be, perhaps, a way to limit weapon size in battlemechs.

There is, but it's not traditionally implemented in MechWarrior games, it's not implemented in MWO, and quite a few people would simply blow their tops if it was implemented.

You see, the customization we have in MWO is actually the BattleMech Construction Rules - as in, design a completely new BattleMech chassis from scratch. Those rules aren't really supposed to be used on already constructed 'mechs, but somewhere back in the mists of time someone didn't understand this, and used the construction rules instead of the rules that DO tell us what we can and cannot do to our 'mechs: The Field Modification Rules.

If those rules were followed instead, there would be a lot less "replace a Small Laser with a PPC" or "shoehorn a Gauss Rifle where a MG used to be", and it would generally be a LOT harder, more restricted, more expensive, and more risky to do any changes to your 'Mech.

Risky? Yes, there was always a chance something went wrong and the weapon or equipment would not work properly; perhaps it'd jam occasionally, or generate more heat, or lock up, or something like that.

In short, it would be a lot more complicated, a lot less freedom in sticking whatever equipment you wanted on your 'mech - and in my book, a lot more fun

Xevius Von Morrigan, on 14 September 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

In any case I like the game.

Great! Most of us do, even if we have grudges and issues with this part of it or that, we're all here because we love to fight in 'Mechs.

[Hagoromo Gitsune]

Scratx, on 12 September 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Welcome to Table Top mech construction rules.

Sanity is that way. *points to /dev/null*

FKTT.

Xevius Von Morrigan, on 14 September 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

I don't know Table Top game but I think a light mech cannot equip a big weapon (Gauss rifle, AC/20, for example).
There should be, perhaps, a way to limit weapon size in battlemechs.

In any case I like the game.

Did ya know bout recoil control system d00d?

[KraftySOT]

There was some miffing about this in the table top too iirc. The rules changed a few times and theres of course, construction rules vs modification rules.

I recall a version of the construction rules that had mechs have slots based on tonnage. A 20 ton mech I believe had 6 slots for instance in each arm (3 were generally taken up by actuators, though upper, lower, and hand actuators were all options, just had various uses). So in theory even if you could fit it, you couldnt throw anything larger than 6 slots on the arm, and you did so at a pretty sizable penalty.

The whole system in MWO is pretty silly though. It doesnt really bare any resemblence to any of the board game systems.

Not every mech has hands, or lower arm actuators for instance. There are a few mechs with weapons in the legs. Theres quads. Melee attacks (never gonna see a Hatchetman or Axeman )

[KraftySOT]

Like for instance the Jagermech in this has lower arm actuators. Which weigh something. Totally doesnt have those in the boardgame:

http://cdn.obsidianp...rMech_JM6-S.jpg

Its just two tons, but still.

Theres alot of stuff thats glossed over...which honestly is why this game has all the balancing issues. Theyre not based on something that was actually balanced (the tabletop) but based on what was ultimately a single player video game made by people who didnt know much about battletech when they started, in the freaking 90s.

Also mechs without lower and hands, could flip their arms behind them. Which would be a nice advantage for those mechs that can do it. Give you a little PIP of your rear view.

Blackjack, Jagermech, Rifleman, Urbie...all a bunch of arm flippers.

[Egomane]

KraftySOT, on 14 September 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

Like for instance the Jagermech in this has lower arm actuators. Which weigh something. Totally doesnt have those in the boardgame:

http://cdn.obsidianp...rMech_JM6-S.jpg

Its just two tons, but still.

Theres alot of stuff thats glossed over...which honestly is why this game has all the balancing issues. Theyre not based on something that was actually balanced (the tabletop) but based on what was ultimately a single player video game made by people who didnt know much about battletech when they started, in the freaking 90s.

Also mechs without lower and hands, could flip their arms behind them. Which would be a nice advantage for those mechs that can do it. Give you a little PIP of your rear view.

Blackjack, Jagermech, Rifleman, Urbie...all a bunch of arm flippers.

Activators have no weight. They are included in the weight for the inner structure.