Jump to content

Information Warfare, Role Warfare, And The Future Of Ecm

Balance Gameplay Skills

24 replies to this topic

#21 Deathlike

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Littlest Helper
  • Littlest Helper
  • 29,240 posts
  • Location#NOToTaterBalance #BadBalanceOverlordIsBad

Posted 28 September 2014 - 03:36 PM

View Postaniviron, on 28 September 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

Yeah, that makes sense. If you limit the radius to ~180m though, how many spots are there where you could just sorta hang out as a light within 180m or 3+ enemies without dying in seconds?

If the multi-target extends to the normal maximum distance, I don't really have a problem with that, even with 360 target retention. The only caveat is that it would be a problem for the BAP-assisted through object targeting maybe, but that's also limited to relatively short distances as is. I'm not sure if I have an issue with it being powerful- you do need something pretty useful to compete when you consider that going for e-war means giving up firepower and maneuverability.


Let's be clear... it's a buff to missile spotters (more spotting bonuses), and more Lurms as a direct/indirect result. I can already smell some LRM user licking his chops.

#22 Nightmare1

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 7,636 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationPeeking over your shoulder while eating your cookies.

Posted 28 September 2014 - 03:45 PM

In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, I'll throw this out there: Passive Sensors.

MW4: Mercenaries was a great example. You could toggle between active and passive sensors to avoid detection. To me, this is how ECM is currently working. Instead of switching to passive sensors, I have to equip ECM to achieve the same bonus. The only main difference, is that instead of simply hiding myself from enemy sensors at ranges >200m, ECM also disrupts all enemy sensors when in range, so that no one can detect enemy Mechs.

Frankly, I hesitate to see ECM changed, because the recent laser, PPC, and JJ nerfs are still too fresh in my mind. However, I do recognize that ECM and information warfare aren't working too well in the game's current state. Perhaps the implementation of toggleable passive sensors would enable the devs to consider some new ways to improve ECM from being a simple "Hide me!" mechanism. Regardless of what happens though, I am strongly against an ECM nerf. There have been way too many nerfs as of late.

I won't presume to suggest what changes should be made, since I am not qualified to do so (I have very little knowledge of ECM outside of the game with regard to how it is used canonically). I simply would like to toss another option on the table (passive sensors) and state my willingness to see an ECM change, but also my aversion to seeing an outright nerf.

#23 Here5y

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Rage
  • Rage
  • 377 posts

Posted 28 September 2014 - 04:17 PM

My Background:

Hi , I`m Plizzken and I am a Battletech Fan since Childhood and am more a Simulator minded Player, and I`m really missing the Rolewarfare Aspect in MW:O - here's my take on the Situation:

Sensors:

There should be a Passive Sensor Mode, like there was in almost all Mechwarrior Franchise Games. Period. Benefit should be Mechs in Passive Sensore Mode can`t be target and scouted with sensors.

Mechs in Passive Sensor Mode should not be able to target any other enemy Mechs , that are also in Passive Sensor Mode, but Enemy Mechs, that are in Active Sensor Mode, although with less Range than in Active Sensor Mode.

Mechs should not be able to classify or identify enemy Targets in the very Distance. Information about the Target should just be available at more Medium Ranges and it should take way more time to obtain these Infos. This Time could be boosted by Module and Beagle Probe.

Needed Changes in MW:O:

* Implement a more general approach to share Enemy Target Location, without providing exact Location. Could be done like in Heroes & Generals for example:
- see http://www.youtube.c...u3N4bkaE0#t=334 : These small red dots, which are appearing are the Enemy Info. You just get an Idea of the Direction, but not the exact Location.

Impact on Role Ware:

* Using Stealth Tactics and Ambushes becomes more viable
* Having a dedicated Scout in a Lance, that is the only Mech in Active Mode becomes viable
* Scouting becomes more necessary, since nobody wants to walk in an ambush
* Identifying Enemy Unit Compisition and Weapons becomes a Job for the Scouts

ECM:

ECM is an overpowered Counter to an overpowered Ability - the Ability to share Target Information. The Problem is that every Mech comes with a free C3 Master and Slave Unit.

For Canonwise Background Information please take a look at:

http://www.sarna.net...C3_Command_Unit

C3 Systems were invented in Battletech Year 3050, so an Implementation would be canonwise possible.

Impact on Rolewarfare:

* Scoutmechs with C3 Units would be more important than ever to relay Target Information to their Lance Comrades.
* Lance Mates with C3 Slave Units would benefit from this information
* Players would be needed to work more as a real Team in a Lance - since the target information is just shared among the Lance.
* The Mech with the C3 Master Unit is precious and needs to be protected , since if it goes down it would result in the C3 Network going down
* ECM would not be a hard Counter against LRMs, but AMS would be and be therefore more useful (and could be buffed ) - therefore Mechs with 2 or 3 AMS would have actually a role to fulfill.
* smaller and faster ECM Mechs could Counter the Mech , that has the C3 Master Unit equipped (usually Assault Mechs ) , rendering the C3 Network useless .
* If an Enemy Forward Obeserver, equipped with C3 Slave is spotted by an ECM equipped Mech, it can disable the C3 Target Relay Functionality to its C3 Peers.

Needed Changes in MW:O :

* Implement C3 Equipment for Mechs ( with Integrated TAG Functionality - see Sarna Article)
* ECM Should counter C3 Indirect Target Info Distribution
* ECM should counter Seismic Sensors, like its intended in Battletech ( its an Electronic Countermeasure and can counter Sensors),
* Implement a more general approach to share Enemy Target Location, without providing exact Location. Could be done like in Heroes & Generals for example:
- see http://www.youtube.c...u3N4bkaE0#t=334 : These small red dots, which are appearing are the Enemy Info. You just get an Idea of the Direction, but not the exact Location.
* ECM should counter NARC.
* Mechs in ECM Bubble should still be allowed to be targeted directly with Target Lock on Sight.
* ECM should not Counter TAG
* An ECM equipped Mech can only be sensed in the very near by BAP equipped Mechs

BAP:

The Beagle Active Probe should provide a bigger sensor range, allowing to detect Mechs in passive Mode from a larger distance that without. Furtermore I`d suggest the Beagle Active Probe should be the only way to detect an ECM Mech if its very near. Since ECM would have a total other Sense, it shouldn't be a Problem.

The Beagle Active Probe should allow a Mech to identify Mech Types , Variants and Loaded Weaponry faster and with a longer Range.

Impact on Rolewarfare:

*Having dedicated Mechs for scouting , that are dropping some Weapon Tonnage for better scouting becomes a more viable Approach
* Identifying Enemy Unit Composition and Weaponry becomes a Scout`s Job.


LRM:

A Problem with Jumpsniping ( as an extreme Form ) or static and defensive play is the benefit of using Cover very efficently, while taking not so much of a risk. One Reason why this works ( ignoring Pinpoint Damage and stuff like that ) is the lack of good indirect Fire in MW:O (even the Drop In Artillery is fired in a direct Firing Mode).
So my take would be to give LRMs ( which then would get way less shared Target Information ) a mode so it can be fired indirectly and unguided in a more artillery way. This could be done by clicking on the battle grid map to define Target Area, for example.

Impact on Rolewarfare:

* LRM Mechs could provide indirect Fire Capabilitiies to Friendly Units and enrich Variety
* LRM Mechs would be more in need of Scouts and more specialized Mechs to get Target Locks for guided Missle Mode ( via C3 - if LRM MEch C3 Slave, NARC and TAG )

Sidenote :

A Drop-in-Artillery with Smoke would be nice to provide Cover, making Longrange Weponry less viable and making tactical retreats a viable option.

That`s my two cents,

Plizzken

Edit: Sentence at the end had was quirked.

Edited by Plizzken, 29 September 2014 - 03:33 AM.


#24 ArchMage Sparrowhawk

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 722 posts

Posted 28 September 2014 - 06:34 PM

Special sensor smoke that defeats everything but drones and UAVs, because it's smoke plus metal nano-filaments and all that other good ****.

No locks. The best you can do is shoot in the dark, or run out of the cloud.

Edited by ArchMage Sparrowhawk, 28 September 2014 - 06:35 PM.


#25 Here5y

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Rage
  • Rage
  • 377 posts

Posted 29 September 2014 - 04:57 AM

@ArchMage: My last Sentence was a little bit quirked ... I edited that.





5 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 5 guests, 0 anonymous users