35 replies to this topic

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Before I get started, I just want to say that I know that the game is not about the kills, I know the difference between assists and "kill steal", I don't play LoL or CoD (well, not anymore) and I don't really care about the kills, most of the time that is.

Some of you can probably relate, there are times when you take an enemy head on, had an epic 1v1, managed to take away most of the enemy's armor and weapons and you're in a good shape. Then when you're just waiting for that 1 more second for that Medium laser finish cooling down to deliver the killing blow that you know you deserved, a team mate decides to step in, kicks you in the nut and literally steals your kill.
Sure, it wouldn't be so bad if you didn't lose both arms and both side torsi, but when you're that "useless" mech with no more weapons left, then yeah, it totally sucks.

I remember a match I had about a week ago, when I took a Blackjack head on with my Spidee around early game, I manage to core his CT and took out about half of his weapons systems at the cost of one leg, lost all armor on one arm and the armor on my other leg at red-orange. Then a "friendly" heavy that had finally caught up decided to shoot at my general direction (I was literally hugging the enemy at this point), so I lost an arm, one rear torso at orange and he killed the Blackjack. Enemy reinforcements came about 5 seconds later, it was a K2 and a Summoner. The friendly heavy then left without saying anything. So there I was, a legged spider with 2 Machine guns and a flamer to defend my self against 2 healthy heavies.

I don't blame you if you're only trying to help, I don't blame you if you're new and is still learning the ropes, I don't blame you if you're oblivious and somehow didn't see me. But I do blame you and you should feel bad if you were aware of the situation and went as far as nearly killing a team mate just so you could secure a quick and easy kill.

TL;DR To the guys who "Kill steal", just think about those who actually took the beating and did 99% of the work. It wouldn't hurt if you aim at the arms and remove some of the enemy's fire power.

[Rogue Jedi]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 13 September 2014 - 02:44 AM, said:

I do blame you and you should feel bad if you were aware of the situation and went as far as nearly killing a team mate just so you could secure a quick and easy kill.

TL;DR To the guys who "Kill steal", just think about those who actually took the beating and did 99% of the work. It wouldn't hurt if you aim at the arms and remove some of the enemy's fire power.

unless someone deliberately shot through you to take the kill (this is extremely rair) most likely they just did not see you, I spend about half my time in game in a Light, so have been in the situation you described many times, yes it is irritating if piloting a Light Mech I have almost killed an assault or heavy 1 on 1 then someone walks around the corner and fires a shot that kills an enemy Mech but this is not stealing the kill it is teamwork, I have finished matches with a kill and 0 damage more than once, this is never deliberate but if I am scouting and see an enemy with an open CT in range I will take the shot.

If you then suffer damage due to being too close to the enemy Mech, unfortunately this is your fault, getting too close to enemy Mechs is a huge risk, it is often worth the risk but if you take this action do not be surprised if you suffer damage from "friendly fire", especially if there are LRM boats on your team.

the most important thing to help the team is to remove enemy Mechs from the fight as fast as possible, ways to remove a Mech from the fight include legging it if it is a fast or short ranged Mech, removing all its weapons and killing the Mech

the only situation where I dislike someone taking a kill I had earned is of I strip a Mech e.g. an Atlas but he still has armor on the CT and the team is outnumbered engaging the bulk of the enemy force so I (in a light) run to assist the rest of the team instead of finishing the Atlas, then someone, generally in a heavy or assault disengages from the main battle to take the "free" kill of the Atlas (which I had left alive specifically so I could add my firepower to the main battle 10-20 seconds faster) and in the process guarantees our teams defeat

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 13 September 2014 - 06:33 AM.

[Darth Futuza]

I wouldn't be upset about a team kill, but I would about friendly fire. You should not friendly fire just for a kill. (Unless its kill a dev weekend, in which case we understand.)

Edited by Darth Futuza, 13 September 2014 - 06:33 AM.

[Varik Ronain]

I do not mind it when someone kills my primary target even if I did 99% of the work. I look at it this way, the faster an enemy mech goes down that is directing it's firepower directly at me then all the better. It saves me armor, ammo, time and makes the magic Dorito go away.


When a teammate scores the kill I think of it as a kill confirmed. Your kill to death rate is not a great measurement of skill compared to your win-loss rate!

[Gremlich Johns]

If you are on a team, it isn't "kill stealing".

It's called getting the mission done.

[Kesslan]

Gremlich Johns, on 13 September 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

If you are on a team, it isn't "kill stealing".

It's called getting the mission done.

Then his point is you shouldn't 'get the mission done' at the avoidable expense of your team mates which you are supposed to be working with as a team. Rather than deliberately shooting through them to net the kill.

I mean it happens by accident sometimes especially to lights but a lot of times it's avoidable.

[Joseph Mallan]

In our group we understand there isn't kill stealing. Only kill confirmation & victory.

[PhoenixFire55]

There is no such thing as "kill stealing" in a team game. Be happy that somebody killed a guy shooting at you and don't hesitate to take out a guy who shoots your teammate.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

"If you then suffer damage due to being too close to the enemy Mech, unfortunately this is your fault, getting too close to enemy Mechs is a huge risk, it is often worth the risk but if you take this action do not be surprised if you suffer damage from "friendly fire", especially if there are LRM boats on your team."

Yes, I know that, but I noticed that the Blackjack had 2 PPCs, 2 Mediums and 2 Smalls, and was on Third Person, I realized that hugging him was the best way of dealing with the situation. By doing so, I basically have negated the bulk of his fire power, and since he was on TPS, and I'm small, It was fairly hard for him to see me during the first seconds of the engagement. The friendly heavy didn't have missiles, he had PPCs and AC/5s.

"most likely they just did not see you"

Well, it was on Crimson Strait, I'm a little blue and red spider shooting fllames at a green blackjack. I'm pretty sure he saw me.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Varik Ronain, on 13 September 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

I do not mind it when someone kills my primary target even if I did 99% of the work. I look at it this way, the faster an enemy mech goes down that is directing it's firepower directly at me then all the better. It saves me armor, ammo, time and makes the magic Dorito go away.

I don't either, but when I'm damaged from the engagement to the point where I'm basically "useless", I get a little upset about it.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

PhoenixFire55, on 13 September 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

There is no such thing as "kill stealing" in a team game. Be happy that somebody killed a guy shooting at you and don't hesitate to take out a guy who shoots your teammate.

That's what I thought too. But what I described is fairly far from an assist. I'm not really happy with my team mate, I'm not sure if you just misread, but the Blackjack didn't even know he was there. All the enemy knows is that there's a legged spider, throwing pebbles and playing with a lighter in front of him.
The team mate also knows that I was there, he had the intentions of killing me to secure the easy kill. I only survived because I torso twisted

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Rogue Jedi, on 13 September 2014 - 06:26 AM, said:

the most important thing to help the team is to remove enemy Mechs from the fight as fast as possible, ways to remove a Mech from the fight include legging it if it is a fast or short ranged Mech, removing all its weapons and killing the Mech

Funny thing is, I had a match a few hours ago, this time I was playing with the SDR-5KC. I put up a one hell of a fight, did lots of damage and got lots of assist. Overall, I was in a pretty bad shape, but I didn't have any limbs missing.
Things went well for my team, and there was one enemy left. He was DC'd. When we were all looking for him, one team mate legged me on purpose and seeing how I was the only light left in the team, it was obvious that he didn't want me to find him first. Good thing the enemy was DC'd and we had a good number, otherwise, it would have totally sucked if we lost

[PhoenixFire55]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 13 September 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

That's what I thought too. But what I described is fairly far from an assist. I'm not really happy with my team mate, I'm not sure if you just misread, but the Blackjack didn't even know he was there. All the enemy knows is that there's a legged spider, throwing pebbles and playing with a lighter in front of him.
The team mate also knows that I was there, he had the intentions of killing me to secure the easy kill. I only survived because I torso twisted

What you described isn't "kill stealing", it is just plain f@ggotry.

From a "normal" perspective, yes, you hate when stuff like that happens to you. From a tactical perspective however, your heavy saw you were a legged light, a more or less useless unit. He ensured a fast kill on the enemy BJ before more enemies arrived, and yes, he did it risking killing you as well. As it was somewhere in the beginning of the match, a legged light somewhere deep in enemy ground is dead anyway. This is sad, but it makes sense. Even in 12-mans sometimes you sacrifice one mech so that the team can win.

[ImperialKnight]

there is no kill steal, only kill secured. there is no respawn in MWO, every split second earlier an enemy dies, is a split second less likely it will kill a friendly

[IllCaesar]

Hmm, do I want to ignore my damaged teammate by sticking my head in the sand and hope they get the kill instead of being killed themselves, letting an enemy player evade death and deal more damage to the team, or do I want to help ensure my teammate gets out with as little damage to their mech as possible?

It sucks when your kill gets "stolen" until someday a teammate doing that ends up saving your life. Then you learn to value such behavior.

As for the situation mentioned in the OP, you'd have died even if your teammate hadn't shown up. You were legged with the armour strippe off your other leg, and that is of your own doing. If you didn't have one leg already lost, you'd probably have been grateful that the heavy on your team showed up and killed the Blackjack, because then you could've actually survived. Your feelings are misplaced, and they should be redirected towards your recklessness rather than your teammate.

[WonderSparks]

Perhaps I am just an oddball, but I do rather agree with the OP. At the same time I also see the points made by other posters.
I mean hey, I can be annoyed and grateful towards a single person, I am human after all.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

MarsAtlas, on 13 September 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

Hmm, do I want to ignore my damaged teammate by sticking my head in the sand and hope they get the kill instead of being killed themselves, letting an enemy player evade death and deal more damage to the team, or do I want to help ensure my teammate gets out with as little damage to their mech as possible?

It sucks when your kill gets "stolen" until someday a teammate doing that ends up saving your life. Then you learn to value such behavior.

As for the situation mentioned in the OP, you'd have died even if your teammate hadn't shown up. You were legged with the armour strippe off your other leg, and that is of your own doing. If you didn't have one leg already lost, you'd probably have been grateful that the heavy on your team showed up and killed the Blackjack, because then you could've actually survived. Your feelings are misplaced, and they should be redirected towards your recklessness rather than your teammate.

The enemy's CT was at red, i just needed a few more seconds. As for the enemy, he only had to a Medium and a Small laser to take out my nearly cored last leg.
To be honest, when I do something stupid, I won't blame anyone. I know that the enemy had 2 PPCs, If I kept my distance, I know that I'm gonna be in a world of hurt. I also thought about of running, but then since he has already targeted me and have done some damage, I was afraid that LRMs are gonna be on my tail. So I made a split second decision. Run away with after taking some beating without doing damage, or take him head on knowing that it's almost suicide.
I took the second option. Luckily, I wasn't targeted by their LRMs. I ran to him up close, almost like hugging him. I aimed for the cockpit, but my weapons were hitting his side torsi, and ended up destroying his RT,reducing his weapons to half. At this point, I know I had the advantage.
If I somehow died in that 1v1, I am at fault, there's no one to blame but myself. But I didn't die in the 1v1, I could have finished him off. But the team mate decided no, "I will not let you secure that kill", and instead, nearly kills me (as I stated from my previous post, the only reason I survived his shots was because I torso twisted) just so he could secure the quick and easy kill.
I even told him on chat how I just needed a few more seconds to secure the kill and how he nearly killed me.

knightsljx, on 13 September 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

there is no kill steal, only kill secured. there is no respawn in MWO, every split second earlier an enemy dies, is a split second less likely it will kill a friendly

I agree, but in my situation, the BlackJack won't be killing anyone.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

PhoenixFire55, on 13 September 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

What you described isn't "kill stealing", it is just plain f@ggotry.

From a "normal" perspective, yes, you hate when stuff like that happens to you. From a tactical perspective however, your heavy saw you were a legged light, a more or less useless unit. He ensured a fast kill on the enemy BJ before more enemies arrived, and yes, he did it risking killing you as well. As it was somewhere in the beginning of the match, a legged light somewhere deep in enemy ground is dead anyway. This is sad, but it makes sense. Even in 12-mans sometimes you sacrifice one mech so that the team can win.

I see your point, but can you tell if a friendly is legged though? I don't know, but as far as I know, the only way you could tell is when they're moving very slow. I wasn't moving when I was hugging the blackjack, so....

[drinniol]

The only thing you're missing out on is a number on your K/D ratio. XP and Cbills are rewarded on how much damage you did to an enemy. I thought this was commong knowledge now?

[Davegt27]

Let me say I apologize

I am a heavy pilot and an expert at showing up at the last min and blasting that Mech

What happens and I have said this before I see on the mini map a Mech doing the dance and for some dumb reason I always try to rush over and help, my thought is I am trying to save that gun

Anyway I am rushing over saying to myself don't die
So one of four things happen
1) They kill the enemy
2) They disengage and run off (I am stuck all alone and get killed)
3) I show up and we take out the bad guy
4) The bad guy kills our guy (I am screwed and get killed)

I get killed a lot because I am always trying to help that Mech that is off to the side alone
Or an Atlas that I try to escort

One last thing
The computer controls this game I don't know how many times I put the last bullet in and did not get
Credit for the kill or I get the kill and I hardly did anything