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Doritos And Ecm - Why Bugs And Ecm Need Addressing

Balance Gameplay HUD

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#21 Ultimax

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 09:43 AM

View PostMystere, on 13 September 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:


It still does not change the fact that [1] bugs need to be fixed and [2] new players need better help, preferably before touching any systems affected by them. Those two items have been used as excuses long enough.




I like ECM just fine, and that's from being on both sides of the ECM/anti-ECM machanic.

I'm not saying it cannot be improved. But most "improvements" I have seen so far seek to nerf them into the ground or eliminate them outright.


Yeah this is how I feel.

Bugs should be squashed, not used as reasons to nerf a system.


ECM's functionality needs to be a completely separate conversation.

#22 Mystere

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 09:47 AM

View PostDeathlike, on 13 September 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Those are rare moments. There are no "proper tools" to ask for help. Even way back when... it has been repeated before in no uncertain tones is if you needed help, you needed to give a location (like, you had to type it out if you weren't on coms). Usually by then, you're probably already toast (and that some people aren't capable/able of typing out "help @ X location" in mid-combat).


Then let's ask for them. Better intra-team communication tools help with more things other than just the ECM "problem".

#23 DocBach

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 09:49 AM

View PostMystere, on 13 September 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:


Then let's ask for them. Better intra-team communication tools help with more things other than just the ECM "problem".


Man, if only someone thought to ask for better in game communications over the last three years?

#24 Mystere

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 09:52 AM

View PostDocBach, on 13 September 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Man, if only someone thought to ask for better in game communications over the last three years?


They seem to be now willing to listen with regard to ECM, so why not with regard to better communications tools?

Edited by Mystere, 13 September 2014 - 09:52 AM.


#25 Deathlike

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 09:57 AM

View PostMystere, on 13 September 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:


They seem to be now willing to listen with regard to ECM, so why not with regard to better communications tools?


It's been on the backburner... again. We have to wait until the resources that are put to CW Phase 2 to be completed first... unfortunately (like UI 2.0, NPE... heck, just look @ the plan).


View PostDocBach, on 13 September 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Man, if only someone thought to ask for better in game communications over the last three years?


Feels like insanity, does it not?

#26 Mystere

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 10:03 AM

View PostDeathlike, on 13 September 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

It's been on the backburner... again. We have to wait until the resources that are put to CW Phase 2 to be completed first... unfortunately (like UI 2.0, NPE... heck, just look @ the plan).


Then it's probably a better idea to have a general "Back To Basics" council, instead of a more specific "ECM" one that seem to be underway. The former looks to be of higher priority, wouldn't you agree? :wub:

#27 Scratx

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 10:04 AM

View PostMystere, on 13 September 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:


Yes I was.



And this was why.


Yes, let's throw a dime into the air to decide which of those mechs circling and shooting at each other inside the ECM bubble are enemy and which are friendly.

Do you feel lucky? Because last I checked no mechs have decals/team colors on their outside to give visual cues as to which team they belong to!

No wonder the blue doritos were returned.

#28 Deathlike

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 10:08 AM

View PostMystere, on 13 September 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:


Then it's probably a better idea to have a general "Back To Basics" council, instead of a more specific "ECM" one that seem to be underway. The former looks to be of higher priority, wouldn't you agree? :wub:


Wait until 2015 at the earliest for... whatever.

The thing about the basics is that I still see people that don't even know how to use "R" properly. That's just a scary notion.

#29 Mystere

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 10:12 AM

View PostDeathlike, on 13 September 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

The thing about the basics is that I still see people that don't even know how to use "R" properly. That's just a scary notion.


I will just quote someone from another thread:

View PostWolfways, on 13 September 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

It's very common for players to specifically not hit R so that LRM users cannot "steal their kills" and other assorted rubbish. In my experience, not many players in solo queue are willing to help anyone who uses LRM's.

Edited by Mystere, 13 September 2014 - 10:21 AM.


#30 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 10:18 AM

I'd be hard pressed to believe that preventing kill steals is the more prevalent reason people don't press R than simply not knowing about it. Considering I've worked with more new players that have had issues not pressing R than people who actually try and undermine the noobs that run LRMs considering ECM does a fine job of that for them.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 13 September 2014 - 10:18 AM.


#31 Mystere

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 10:23 AM

View PostWM Quicksilver, on 13 September 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

I'd be hard pressed to believe that preventing kill steals is the more prevalent reason people don't press R than simply not knowing about it. Considering I've worked with more new players that have had issues not pressing R than people who actually try and undermine the noobs that run LRMs considering ECM does a fine job of that for them.


Whether or not it is more prevalent, I honestly don't know. But, I have noticed it happening and have also heard it mentioned a few times here on the forums.

#32 CocoaJin

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 11:42 AM

I'd prefer if ECM affected everybody, friend or foe. Using ECM away from friendlies or foes would be beneficial for scouting as it lets you advance into forward areas under some cover...but it wouldn't aid your friendlies because your ECM blocks even your data link. Not until you switch to detect would you be able to transmit contacts back to friends.

Running ECM amoung foes would disrupt their sensors and data links, but require you be among them alone...because if you have friends nearby, they get screwed too. Running in detect near friends would improve all friends locks through the datalink.

My long winded idea more or less fleshed out last night:
http://mwomercs.com/...y-views-on-ecm/

View PostCocoaJin, on 12 September 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

ECM is apparently supposed to have two modes, one that provides improved detection like BAP, or the other which is essentially jamming.

Improved detection mode should extend detection ranges for the user mech(providing full target detail), but also make him easier to detect by the enemy by approximatly 2x the detection range of the ECM detect user(but with no target detail). Ex: Detect user gets full target data at let's say 750m, the enemy gets only a target square at 1500m, but no target info). Perhaps using it generates small amounts of heat...not making you hotter, just not letting you cool.

Jamming mode is basically sensory noise. In theory, it could have possibly been set for a selective unit or sensor suite, but doing so would have left it detectable by every other unit and every other sensory suite...so instead, it uses broad/multi-spectrum disruption. Once again, maybe it generates some heat so you can't or it is harder to cool.

Jamming would not be pure stealth. It wouldn't be gauranteed protection from locks and it wouldn't distinguish between friend or foe.

Jamming would produce intermittent contacts, locks and displaced locks with no IDing info when at its outer range(intermittent and erroneous blips, requiring line of sight to confirm) of let's say 1000m.

At intermediate ECM range(750m), you'd get displaced locks that improve as you close, but it would take longer to achieve locks, intermittent IDing would appear. Standard/conventional missiles such as LRM and Streaks would still work per canon, but would be affected by longer lock times and would suffer decreased accuracy(increased missile spread and misses).

ECM would affect all, friend or foe. Two opposing ECMs on Jamming mode wouldn't counter each other, it would make it worse for all within their overlapping range.

An ECM on detect mode would not hard counter an ECM on jam, it would only reduce the effectiveness and lock delay of the jamming for the detect mode user only...this detect soft counter to jam would not stack...meaning two ECM on detect would not eliminate the jamming or stack the soft counter effect. Target link data from the detect ECM users would only transfer a portion of its soft counter to allies. Receiving target data link from a friendly ECM on detect would result in you having lock values worse than that of the friendly ECM on detect that's relaying the target data to you.

Being in close proximity(200m) to an ECM on jam would produce static, slight view screen wash-out and intermittent HUD disruption for all, friend or foe.


Edited by CocoaJin, 13 September 2014 - 11:47 AM.


#33 Deathlike

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 11:54 AM

View PostMystere, on 13 September 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Whether or not it is more prevalent, I honestly don't know. But, I have noticed it happening and have also heard it mentioned a few times here on the forums.


Personally, I think that person is pretty much a bad teammate, regardless of his opinion of LRMs. I'm not a fan of LRMs, but I don't have any issues helping teammates. If you refuse to spot for your teammates, then that says more about you than it does me.

#34 StalaggtIKE

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 11:57 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 13 September 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

It wasn't a bug initially. The initial ECM implementation deliberately removed ALL doritos.

No. I'm referring to the start of the match when I'm over 1000 kms away from the enemy and I get no IFF from teammates.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 13 September 2014 - 11:58 AM.


#35 banjoe

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 07:44 PM

Last weekend, i was in a mid-game brawling match, when I was about to alpha a Raven that didn't have a Dorito. Right before I fired, I noticed the Raven look at the backside of an allied Atlas ddc, (who had the blue Dorito), and didn't fire any weapons. I'm glad I stayed my shoot, but I'm still not sure if the Raven was a friend or foe.





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