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#1 Mothykins

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:32 AM

We have an issue, and it isn't all gameplay.


Starting off, We've all complained about the high pricing for everything. All of us. At least once. And it sucks, but We've been getting ton's of sales as of late, which take the hurt off. I don't see this changing quickly, and here's why:
  • The game has been up for years at this point. If you drop the price, all the players who've already sunk money into it will be understandably upset.
  • If you try to mitigate that damage with refunds/free in game stuff, you now need to track the many thousands of players and how much they've spent, which takes up tons of resources.
  • The sale prices are generally closer to what I'd personally consider "in line" anyways, with a few exceptions.
That said, We still have an issue where MC to C-bill and MC to Premium time are not equal to what they give you.




We also have an issue where expansion requires real world money - Mechbays, though PGI has been doing it's best to give those away as part of challenges. This is a great move on their part, as long as it becomes a semi-recurring theme.



"So what's the problem? It can't be just Premium Time."


Glad you asked.


The problem is the games current C-Bill rewards. Even with Premium they're terrible. This is a serious throttle to players.



The following is based off of myself, who is an average, if not below average player.

I've bought a single 'Mech in game in the last three months, because it's not easy to create any in game income with the current model. This is while running a Locust, ranging into the 400-600 damage per match range, with numerous spotting rewards. In game income is ~120,000CB, minus the 80,000CB for a total of 40,000CB. Some games are Net Zero. Some are better. Average is 40,000. (My 1V-P nets more, but I'm basing off a standard variant)

A Locust, pretty much the cheapest thing in the game, costs 1,491,242CB. This is 38 Matches (Rounding up.) An average match is 1 minute to connect, and then 7 minutes on average. This is five hours of solid playing. For a Locust. By contrast, a Clan Mech, the Summoner, costs 14,071,353CB, which is more than an inner-sphere Assault. This is about 10 times the cost, so the grind would be ten times the length. 50 hours to get a Clan Heavy. More than two days of solid playing. If you spread that out at two hours a day (personally my average), that's 25 days. Nearly a month to get a single clan heavy.

This is incredibly frustrating as a player. 25 days to get a single 'Mech Chassis; by this point most sane players would quit. Advancement is slow and painful, so why keep going, there's hardly any reward. (The only reason I'm here is dedication to the IP really. But we need to retain new players.)

This is not a good model. It feels like you're forcing people to pump real money into the game to advance at all, and alienating the casual players. This is compounded by the high price to buy things for real money. You need better rewards in game, be it just a general income buff or better rewards for filling warfare roles.


EDIT FOR CLARITY:

I'm Stating that the average casual player who's just trying the game out will feel like they can't advance and the only option is to spend money. The game is toted as Free To Play, yet feels like you require money to advance in a timely fashion. As well, They're told that in order to advance, they can't use game-play options that are offered to them (UAV, ART./AIR Strike) OR 'Mechs they enjoy piloting. This isn't some single player, linear advancement game where the end result is a lance of Assaults.

Hoping for constructive comments and Suggestions on how PGI could fix this. Good ideas will be quoted to the opening post.

Edited by Cavale, 11 September 2014 - 11:21 AM.


#2 Emery Radick

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:39 AM

How about dropping the modules while grinding for MC? It cuts your time down by 2/3rds. Still a grind but not nearly as horrid as you make it out to be.

#3 Pendraco

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:42 AM

If you stop buying consumables, add premium time and a Hero type Mech it's amazing how fast the C-Bills pile up. During the last challenge I earned close to 8 milllion C-Bills trying to Unlock the 6.5 million C-Bill reward!

#4 Hospy

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:44 AM

While I agree with the spirit of your message, I'm a little confused why you're using consumables that take up 2/3rds of your income if you're trying to grind c-bills.

#5 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:45 AM

View PostCavale, on 11 September 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

We have an issue, and it isn't all gameplay.


Starting off, We've all complained about the high pricing for everything. All of us. At least once. And it sucks, but We've been getting ton's of sales as of late, which take the hurt off. I don't see this changing quickly, and here's why:
  • The game has been up for years at this point. If you drop the price, all the players who've already sunk money into it will be understandably upset.
  • If you try to mitigate that damage with refunds/free in game stuff, you now need to track the many thousands of players and how much they've spent, which takes up tons of resources.
  • The sale prices are generally closer to what I'd personally consider "in line" anyways, with a few exceptions.
That said, We still have an issue where MC to C-bill and MC to Premium time are not equal to what they give you.



We also have an issue where expansion requires real world money - Mechbays, though PGI has been doing it's best to give those away as part of challenges. This is a great move on their part, as long as it becomes a semi-recurring theme.



"So what's the problem? It can't be just Premium Time."


Glad you asked.


The problem is the games current C-Bill rewards. Even with Premium they're terrible. This is a serious throttle to players.



The following is based off of myself, who is an average, if not below average player.

I've bought a single 'Mech in game in the last three months, because it's not easy to create any in game income with the current model. This is while running a Locust, ranging into the 400-600 damage per match range, with numerous spotting rewards. In game income is ~120,000CB, minus the 80,000CB for a total of 40,000CB. Some games are Net Zero. Some are better. Average is 40,000. (My 1V-P nets more, but I'm basing off a standard variant)

A Locust, pretty much the cheapest thing in the game, costs 1,491,242CB. This is 38 Matches (Rounding up.) An average match is 1 minute to connect, and then 7 minutes on average. This is five hours of solid playing. For a Locust. By contrast, a Clan Mech, the Summoner, costs 14,071,353CB, which is more than an inner-sphere Assault. This is about 10 times the cost, so the grind would be ten times the length. 50 hours to get a Clan Heavy. More than two days of solid playing. If you spread that out at two hours a day (personally my average), that's 25 days. Nearly a month to get a single clan heavy.

This is incredibly frustrating as a player. 25 days to get a single 'Mech Chassis; by this point most sane players would quit. Advancement is slow and painful, so why keep going, there's hardly any reward. (The only reason I'm here is dedication to the IP really. But we need to retain new players.)

This is not a good model. It feels like you're forcing people to pump real money into the game to advance at all, and alienating the casual players. This is compounded by the high price to buy things for real money. You need better rewards in game, be it just a general income buff or better rewards for filling warfare roles.



Hoping for constructive comments and Suggestions on how PGI could fix this. Good ideas will be quoted to the opening post.

With Premium Time I averaged over 120K and brought in a One time high of 260K. Its not to low. We are supposed to be grunt Mercs. You don't get rich waging war.

#6 Catalinasgrace

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:46 AM

While I understand what you are saying, I don't agree with you...

I average 100k per match, and on a really good match I can make upwards of 300K. Yes, I run premium time but even taking the bonus off that amount I think it is fair. If it is taking you almost a month to afford a single mech something is wrong in my opinion. When I started playing MWO there was no cadet bonus or any help for that matter other than premium time or buying the mech outright with MC.

While it is only my opinion, I do not see it being difficult to make C-Bills in game...

#7 Torgun

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:46 AM

I recall someone taking a screenshot of a great game he had, I believe with 7 kills, 3 assists, lots of component destructions and 1200+ damage with the win. He walked away with 180K CBills. I had a good laugh.

#8 Mothykins

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:46 AM

View PostNinja Thor, on 11 September 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

How about dropping the modules while grinding for MC? It cuts your time down by 2/3rds. Still a grind but not nearly as horrid as you make it out to be.

Kills 'mech efficiency. Keeps you from being a full asset to your team. In the case of lights, not taking those modules is a poor choice, as a UAV can be the difference between your team winning or losing.

View PostPendraco, on 11 September 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

If you stop buying consumables, add premium time and a Hero type Mech it's amazing how fast the C-Bills pile up. During the last challenge I earned close to 8 milllion C-Bills trying to Unlock the 6.5 million C-Bill reward!


"This is not a good model. It feels like you're forcing people to pump real money into the game to advance at all, and alienating the casual players. This is compounded by the high price to buy things for real money."

I'm basing this off the average casual player. Pumping money into a game to make it playable is not Free To Play.

#9 Mothykins

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:49 AM

View PostHospy, on 11 September 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

While I agree with the spirit of your message, I'm a little confused why you're using consumables that take up 2/3rds of your income if you're trying to grind c-bills.

Playability of the Locust chassis. Plus the fact that you should still be able to advance while using all options laid out before you. As it is, these consumables are just part of the repair and rearm system they already had to shut down because it was stifling the in game economy.

#10 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:51 AM

View PostTorgun, on 11 September 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

I recall someone taking a screenshot of a great game he had, I believe with 7 kills, 3 assists, lots of component destructions and 1200+ damage with the win. He walked away with 180K CBills. I had a good laugh.

Yes 180K for 15 minutes of fighting is crazy!

#11 Xyroc

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:51 AM

5 hr grind for a mech isnt bad at all ... in League of Legends you get an average of 100 IP ( in game currency ) per match. The newest Champions cost 6800 at release.

That comes to 68 matches for one champ.

Average game time 30-45min.

Total Time invested to get something new ~ 40 hrs.

This is a HIGH estimate but still on the low end you would still expect ~25-30hrs.

Edited by Beliall, 11 September 2014 - 10:52 AM.


#12 Catalinasgrace

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:52 AM

Your first mistake in trying to make c-bills is using the locust to do it in... I have them as well, and the only time I run them is to have fun with them...

#13 Napoleon_Blownapart

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:52 AM

i cant agree.i have have played maybe 14+months and only put $37 into mc and over $500 into my system to play it better and i remember the old cbill rewards pre 12man.

and the joy of arti is worth the 40k

Edited by Gorantir, 11 September 2014 - 10:53 AM.


#14 Torgun

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:54 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 11 September 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

Yes 180K for 15 minutes of fighting is crazy!


Don't go all lore-crazy on me now, you know what I'm talking about. When you do that well in one of those rare matches and can't even get a large laser for the trouble, this reward system is crap.

View PostBeliall, on 11 September 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

5 hr grind for a mech isnt bad at all ... in League of Legends you get an average of 100 IP ( in game currency ) per match. The newest Champions cost 6800 at release.

That comes to 68 matches for one champ.

Average game time 30-45min.

Total Time invested to get something new ~ 40 hrs.

This is a HIGH estimate but still on the low end you would still expect ~25-30hrs.

You need 3 variants of those champions to master one?

Edited by Torgun, 11 September 2014 - 10:55 AM.


#15 Catalinasgrace

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:56 AM

View PostTorgun, on 11 September 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:


Don't go all lore-crazy on me now, you know what I'm talking about. When you do that well in one of those rare matches and can't even get a large laser for the trouble, this reward system is crap.


You need 3 variant of those champions to master one?


Yes, but once you have purchased the weapon it is yours forever. There is no repair or rearm any longer. Only the one time cost of the item...

#16 Pendraco

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:56 AM

View PostCavale, on 11 September 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

Kills 'mech efficiency. Keeps you from being a full asset to your team. In the case of lights, not taking those modules is a poor choice, as a UAV can be the difference between your team winning or losing.


"This is not a good model. It feels like you're forcing people to pump real money into the game to advance at all, and alienating the casual players. This is compounded by the high price to buy things for real money."

I'm basing this off the average casual player. Pumping money into a game to make it playable is not Free To Play.


The game is perfectly playable and FREE TO PLAY. Don't like the Grind that FREE TO PLAY offers you? Consider a subscription of $14.95 a month for Premium time and 500 mc to spend as you like and start swimming in C-Bills.

You don't need consumables to be effective either, wait until you have millions and millions ...then start using consumables.

Edited by Pendraco, 11 September 2014 - 10:59 AM.


#17 Mothykins

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:56 AM

View PostBeliall, on 11 September 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

5 hr grind for a mech isnt bad at all ... in League of Legends you get an average of 100 IP ( in game currency ) per match. The newest Champions cost 6800 at release.

That comes to 68 matches for one champ.

Average game time 30-45min.

Total Time invested to get something new ~ 40 hrs.

This is a HIGH estimate but still on the low end you would still expect ~25-30hrs.

Unlike MWO, LoL has usable characters on rotation free to play. Customization of build is handled in game, with currency usable only per match.

MWO requires you to buy a 'Mech to customize it, and the customization is considered an integral part of the game. Needing to grind for 5 hours for the smallest 'Mech is not at all viable.

The comparison doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

#18 Torgun

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:57 AM

View PostCatalinasgrace, on 11 September 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:


Yes, but once you have purchased the weapon it is yours forever. There is no repair or rearm any longer. Only the one time cost of the item...


I'm pretty sure any weapon you purchase in most shooters you get to keep man, your point being?

#19 Artgathan

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 11:00 AM

First off, as others have mentioned, drop the modules if you're trying to gain C-Bills.

Secondly, while I agree that earnings for F2P players are a little low (I'd estimate they come in at around ~100,000 a match), if you stack a Hero Mech on top of Premium Time you can earn considerably more (I can easily make ~200,000 on average a match, often getting over 250,000. Bear in mind that my play experience may not reflect yours however). Granted, this is a somewhat expensive solution but is fairly par for the course in F2P games.

#20 Warblood

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 11:02 AM

Quote

The problem is the games current C-Bill rewards. Even with Premium they're terrible. This is a serious throttle to players.

my avg winning game with out PremTime or (H)mech is 120-140k

my best pay out with PremTime or (H)mech is like 187k.(pic is 176k)
Posted Image

My best pay with PremTime n (H)mech is like 298k
Posted Image

Yes i know its hard for new players to make cbills but you have to keep playin and keep gettin better, the better you get the more you'll end up earning. No one starts off makin tons of cbills we all had to work hard at getting better and as we did the amount we earned started to get higher. Look hard at the pics you'll notice im doin a hell of a lot of stuff to make that much cbills

Edit:
added pics

Edited by Warblood, 11 September 2014 - 11:59 AM.






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