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#21 Thirdstar

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 07:52 PM

View PostCmdr Rad, on 14 September 2014 - 07:48 PM, said:

I mean, how many players did you ban exactly?


Quite a large number. The island is almost a continent at this point. One could almost say the positions are reversed.

#22 Cmdr Rad

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 07:57 PM

View PostThirdstar, on 14 September 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:


Quite a large number. The island is almost a continent at this point. One could almost say the positions are reversed.


Perhaps, but I am curious what the number is now.

#23 Thirdstar

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 08:00 PM

View PostCmdr Rad, on 14 September 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:


Perhaps, but I am curious what the number is now.


You could potentially go over individual, corroborated reports of bans on Reddit and arrive at an approximate.

I doubt PGI will ever release that kind of information, it would be counter-intuitive to their PR efforts to show just how many long time players/Founders have been banned.

Edited by Thirdstar, 14 September 2014 - 08:01 PM.


#24 Cion

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 08:05 PM

That might be a lot of work from your part Russ, but I believe many of us can see the efforts u guys are putting into rebooting relations and vouching for a new start.

I believe it's a good move. That being said, I really have enjoyed the forums with less negativity. We don't want all the forums too positive, but a balance is good. it's been refreshing.

#25 XX Sulla XX

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 08:07 PM

Looks like a good idea.

#26 MischiefSC

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 08:16 PM

There are plenty of people who were banned and need to stay banned. Troll accounts, etc. etc.

No, this is a good way to do it. If someone doesn't want to even e-mail in to say 'hey, I want to be unbanned and here's why'.

No saying you've got to knock meekly on the door with your hat in your hand. You do need to ask though, that's not unreasonable. Bluntly even if someone was banned for the wrong reason there needs to be a clear agreement that 'you are being unbanned because of X reason' between them and PGI. Be that reason 'It's been a while and you promised to behave' or 'the reason you were banned is questionable and undeserved' or 'totally an accident, we were all drunk and/or high and just banned you for giggles'.

Whatever the reason it needs to be clear between PGI and anyone who comes back. Otherwise the ban itself will start drama again.

#27 Domenoth

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 08:16 PM

View PostCmdr Rad, on 14 September 2014 - 07:48 PM, said:


Russ, I think this is a rather magnanimous gesture. But you should just blanket unban everyone...


I respectfully disagree. I'm not exactly sure I can eloquently say why I disagree, but I do. I think the root of it is that I feel this issue is two-sided and both sides should acknowledge what happened and why. Blanket amnesty wouldn't solidify a contract it would just be blanket amnesty. When I read Russ's post, I didn't get the vibe that anyone needs to grovel. But a written record between Russ and said player that details what is expected/sought after moving forward is both reasonable and desirable. Something along the lines of:

Quote

Back when PGI/IGP did [x], it made me angry, so I [y]'d. I realize [y]ing was [inappropriate/out of order/destructive/etc] and I will endeavor to stay constructive and take alternate avenues to voice my dissatisfaction in the future. I am interested in helping to produce a better MWO. Please unban me.


I feel someone who really cares about improving the game should be capable of constructing something similar to the above. If they aren't, I'm not sure I want them contributing to the game or these forums.

That's my gut reaction.

#28 Russ Bullock

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 08:17 PM

View PostCmdr Rad, on 14 September 2014 - 07:48 PM, said:

Russ, I think this is a rather magnanimous gesture. But you should just blanket unban everyone (Except for those who were banned for spamming, real life threats, or other bans that relate to real world crimes).


I expected at least some of these feelings. Regardless It's my starting point for now. Many out there taking the wait and see approach with PGI and that is fair, think of this as a similar wait and see response from us. It's an olive branch they can reach for, I am a very reasonable person, just email me.

#29 Thirdstar

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 08:21 PM

http://www.reddit.co...orums_for_your/

Would be nice if Russ could comment on allegations that people were being banned for criticizing PGI on 3rd party websites. There are also worrying reports that Niko is using real names that he has no business having access to.

#30 ThisMachineKillsFascists

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 08:24 PM

View PostThirdstar, on 14 September 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

http://www.reddit.co...orums_for_your/

Would be nice if Russ could comment on allegations that people were being banned for criticizing PGI on 3rd party websites. There are also worrying reports that Niko is using real names that he has no business having access to.

This


Posted Image

#31 Wrenchfarm

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 08:31 PM

View PostThirdstar, on 14 September 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

http://www.reddit.co...orums_for_your/

Would be nice if Russ could comment on allegations that people were being banned for criticizing PGI on 3rd party websites. There are also worrying reports that Niko is using real names that he has no business having access to.

That is seriously troubling.

#32 Kilo 40

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 08:55 PM

View PostThirdstar, on 14 September 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

There are also worrying reports


you mean rumor

#33 Thirdstar

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 09:02 PM

View PostKilo 40, on 14 September 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:


you mean rumor


It's a serious enough allegation that even rumours must be given due attention. I don't think it's in anyone's best interest to undermine the seriousness of community managers using real names to strong arm the players.

#34 Lord de Seis

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 09:04 PM

Excellent post, hopefully this is the beginning of mending a strained relationship between the community and PGI.

#35 Russ Bullock

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 09:05 PM

I will investigate it tomorrow. I certainly believe this is false information, but its worth investigation for sure.

#36 Thirdstar

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 09:08 PM

Thank you Russ, I'm glad you're giving this serious issue the attention it deserves.

#37 Kilo 40

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 09:08 PM

View PostThirdstar, on 14 September 2014 - 09:02 PM, said:


It's a serious enough allegation that even rumours must be given due attention. I don't think it's in anyone's best interest to undermine the seriousness of community managers using real names to strong arm the players.


I'd say that it's serious enough that the people spreading that rumor should provide some evidence of it before spreading "worrying reports".

#38 Stingray Productions

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 09:09 PM

View PostRuss Bullock, on 14 September 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

I will investigate it tomorrow. I certainly believe this is false information, but its worth investigation for sure.

It seems there always is false information floating around out there about PGI. Best of luck with the investigation! :)

#39 Thirdstar

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 09:12 PM

View PostKilo 40, on 14 September 2014 - 09:08 PM, said:


I'd say that it's serious enough that the people spreading that rumor should provide some evidence of it before spreading "worrying reports".


View PostStingray1234, on 14 September 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:

It seems there always is false information floating around out there about PGI. Best of luck with the investigation! :)


I'd like to point out that the policy to ban people for being critical of PGI on 3rd party sites is actually enshrined in the new community rules as outlined by Niko.

It's not false information by any yardstick.

I think it's disingenuous of you guys to cherrypick the points I was making.

Edited by Thirdstar, 14 September 2014 - 09:17 PM.


#40 TLBFestus

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 09:20 PM

View PostKilo 40, on 14 September 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:


you mean rumor



Now see? What was the purpose of that comment?

I'm pretty sure that 90% or better of us can read the original post and understand exactly what he was saying without needing to reply because "worrying reports" sounds too much like it's a fact.

As much as those who are big supporters of the game and PGI claim that it's the detractors stirring the pot in the forums, here is a perfect example of it coming from those who support the game. It's not a big deal this time, but it's a great example of what NOT to do.

If you seriously want to see the forums improve, then I suggest everyone, one either side of a position, take a minute to review just why they are responding in a certain manner. He11 I'm guilty of it, it's my bread and butter, but I'm going to try to make an effort NOT to provoke those I'm in disagreement with for the foreseeable future.

Edited by TLBFestus, 14 September 2014 - 09:21 PM.






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