36 replies to this topic

[waterfowl]

Scroll to bottom for TL;DR

Air strikes and arty strikes are part of the game, and the lore. A very important part of the lore in fact, so I think they should stay effective. But the current gameplay issue is that there is no penalty for spamming them or bringing one to a match. I think hitting them directly with the nerf bat anymore would be stupid, and I happen to be a fan of lateral balance. (Changing indirect things so you don't ruin gameplay elements. Take a hint, Paul...)

Here's my suggestion:

When someone initiates a strike, bitching betty should warn both teams. Something along the lines of "*beep beep beep* Incoming artillery detected"

Like Starcraft sorta:

Make it play for everyone on the map so it doesn't give out the location of the strike. It would just give warning that you should possibly be on the lookout for the red smoke.

Lore wise it makes sense, because you'd probably have a drop ship or satellite in space watching the planet, and it would be easy to see the heat signature of artillery firing. The excuse for air strikes is easy too- radar detection.

I think this little change would help a lot with the spammable effectiveness of strikes without further nerfing their damage. It would keep them useful for tactical situations (choke points, legged guys, etc), yet go a long way towards stopping cheesy usage.

For example: you're dueling a raven in a heavy mech. You'd suddenly hear the warniing, and know that he probably initiated a strike behind you. You'd have the ability to disengage for a moment to run from the strike. This is an example of current cheesy usage. Maybe he didn't use the strike though, and someone else on the map did it somewhere else. This opens up gameplay choices, which leads to interesting games.

This audio warning further opens up pathways for interesting gameplay mechanics. E.g., a module or equippable item, like command console, that gives your airstrike plane "stealth", so the warning doesn't play. If ECM gets changed some way or another, maybe those disrupted by ECM wouldn't hear the warning. Something like that would give nimble ECM lights a little niche for bombing people. And so on.

Thank you for reading

TL;DR: Make strikes play an audible warning (like missiles do) for everyone on the map when they're initiated. This would encourage them to be used more tactically instead of spammed, without further nerfing their power level

Edited by waterfowl, 13 September 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[Mcgral18]

20 shells, 20 damage.

More damage, better chance to hit something, no instakilling.

[Devilsfury]

I actually like that idea!

[Kiiyor]

waterfowl, on 13 September 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

TL;DR: Make strikes play an audible warning (like missiles do) for everyone on the map when they're initiated. This would encourage them to be used more tactically instead of spammed, without further nerfing their power level

Oh god yes. I'm not approving based on balance theory, i'm approving this based on my white hot seething hatred for artillery and airstrikes in general. I despise being defeated not because of enemy skill; but because I didn't see a plume of red smoke behind my mech (and yes, I acknowledge that placing artillery does involve skill, but so did finding things to click on in Monkey Island).

[dario03]

waterfowl, on 13 September 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

TL;DR: Make strikes play an audible warning (like missiles do) for everyone on the map when they're initiated. This would encourage them to be used more tactically instead of spammed, without further nerfing their power level

Mcgral18, on 13 September 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

20 shells, 20 damage.

More damage, better chance to hit something, no instakilling.

Why not both???

Edited by dario03, 13 September 2014 - 04:41 PM.

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 13 September 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

20 shells, 20 damage.

More damage, better chance to hit something, no instakilling.

I disagree. It's precisely the threat of instakilling, no matter how small the odds, that makes them frightening.

Edited by Mystere, 13 September 2014 - 04:46 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 13 September 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

I disagree. It's precisely the threat of instakilling, no matter how small the odds, that makes them frightening.

This needs a poll.

Do we want instagibbing in MWO?

[Pjwned]

Mystere, on 13 September 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

I disagree. It's precisely the threat of instakilling, no matter how small the odds, that makes them frightening.

We shouldn't have consumable items that have no weight and take up no critical slots on a mech be more frightening than something like an AC20 because of RNG shells instantly destroying your cockpit, that's complete nonsense.

Mcgral18, on 13 September 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

This needs a poll.

Do we want instagibbing in MWO?

Do I want to be instagibbed from potentially infinite range by a consumable item that causes RNG shells to hit my cockpit before I can even do any damage? The answer is no.

Edited by Pjwned, 13 September 2014 - 05:00 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Mystere, on 13 September 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

I disagree. It's precisely the threat of instakilling, no matter how small the odds, that makes them frightening.

Lets make High Explosive's a consumable lol.

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 13 September 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

This needs a poll.

Do we want instagibbing in MWO?

Let me start ...

Yes, as long as something called "artillery" or "air strike" is in the game. Just make sure the probability is small enough ... just like what we have today.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Mystere, on 13 September 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

I disagree. It's precisely the threat of instakilling, no matter how small the odds, that makes them frightening.

I would find the prospect of 20 AC20 rounds with splash damage raining down all around me plenty frighting, I think.

[Mystere]

Kaeb Odellas, on 13 September 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

I would find the prospect of 20 AC20 rounds with splash damage raining down all around me plenty frighting, I think.

Not if the probability of a direct hit is low and my mech is not being held together by duct tape.

But a shell capable of taking out a fresh mech, no matter how small the chance, forces people to look out for that red smoke.

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 13 September 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

Not if the probability of a direct hit is low and my mech is not being held together by duct tape.

But a shell capable of taking out a fresh mech, no matter how small the chance, forces people to look out for that red smoke.

400 damage also makes that mech look out for red smoke.

[Pjwned]

Mystere, on 13 September 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

Not if the probability of a direct hit is low and my mech is not being held together by duct tape.

Anybody that's remotely intelligent would still fear a barrage of shells even if it didn't have a chance to instantly kill them.

Quote

But a shell capable of taking out a fresh mech, no matter how small the chance, forces people to look out for that red smoke.

A shell taking out a fresh mech due to a RNG hit is awful design, especially when no other weapon in the game can do that unless you boat it and somehow get that very rare headshot.

Edited by Pjwned, 13 September 2014 - 08:02 PM.

[Mystere]

Pjwned, on 13 September 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

Anybody that's remotely intelligent would still fear a barrage of shells even if it didn't have a chance to instantly kill them.

Considering that lately I've been running straight through the red smoke in my Timber Wolf and only getting yellow, I am now willing to take more risks with regard to artillery.

Pjwned, on 13 September 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

A shell taking out a fresh mech due to a RNG hit is awful design, especially when no other weapon in the game can do that unless you boat it and somehow get that very rare headshot.

Getting killed by a direct hit from artillery is rare enough in my book, especially given my recent experience.

As for it being "awful design", I disagree, especially because this is my frame of reference:

Mcgral18, on 13 September 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

400 damage also makes that mech look out for red smoke.

In 40 damage increments yes, I will do so (maybe[*]). But in 20 damage increments, I will do so less.

[*]

Mystere, on 13 September 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

Considering that lately I've been running straight through the red smoke in my Timber Wolf and only getting yellow, I am now willing to take more risks with regard to artillery.

Edited by Mystere, 13 September 2014 - 08:15 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Mystere, on 13 September 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

Getting killed by a direct hit from artillery is rare enough in my book, especially given my recent experience.

A headshot from an artillery shell was what killed me during PGI's 12-man tournament.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 13 September 2014 - 08:17 PM.

[Mystere]

Kaeb Odellas, on 13 September 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

A headshot from an artillery shell was what killed me during PGI's 12-man tournament

Then you drew the proverbial short stick. It happens.

[Pjwned]

Mystere, on 13 September 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

Considering that lately I've been running straight through the red smoke in my Timber Wolf and only getting yellow, I am now willing to take more risks with regard to artillery.

That's not really a bad strategy in the first place if you're going as fast as a timber wolf and considering how much armor it has.

Quote

Getting killed by a direct hit from artillery is rare enough in my book, especially given my recent experience.

As for it being "awful design", I disagree, especially because this is my frame of reference:

My signature said:

Stop making arguments on how to balance things based on how some thing or another supposedly work in real life, this is a video game.

I'll consider it rare enough when either of these 2 things happen:
A: it takes 2 shells to take out the cockpit, because that would be so exceedingly rare that you really would just have to think "well that sucks."
or
B: it's more of a consistent risk with other weapons

Mystere, on 13 September 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

Then you drew the proverbial short stick. It happens.

It happens because it's bad design.

Edited by Pjwned, 13 September 2014 - 08:30 PM.

[Mystere]

Pjwned, on 13 September 2014 - 08:26 PM, said:

It happens because it's bad design.

Then our opinion on this particular matter will forever be on opposite sides.

As for your sig, I (obviously) disagree with that as well. I came here for a "futuristic" war game, not eSport.

Edited by Mystere, 13 September 2014 - 08:36 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mystere, on 13 September 2014 - 08:35 PM, said:

As for your sig, I (obviously) disagree with that as well. I came here for a "futuristic" war game, not eSport.

So good balance/design in a vidya game is only good for eSports.....lolwut