12 replies to this topic

[Red October911]

Do they? I believe IS mechs do but I'm not sure if the clans do. I've heard in several posts that they didn't and wondered why? I never played TT so I can't really tell weather or not the clans abide to em. If they don't, does that mean they're OP and would need minor tweeks to make em more balanced? If they do, do you think they're balanced as is?

I find it a bit silly to be hitting mechs and delivering full/ half damage with ER clan Mlas at ranges that a normal IS Mlas would just love to be able to attain. Or indeed a Clan UAC/5 that fires so many more rounds before jamming unlike IS version that can fire 4-5 max before jamming.

Are there some distinct down sides to the clanners that I'm not aware of (except not being able to change engine, mechs + weapons costing more C-Bills and heat being more intense on Clan weapons).

P.S. this isn't meant to be a nagging post, I just want to see what you other folks think about the clans...

[Lynx7725]

Clan mech actually follow TT rules more stringently than IS mechs, mostly. PGI had to tweak weapons values for the TT-to-FPS translation, but generally it follows.

EDIT: Just to point out, on TT the Clans have a sizable advantage over IS mechs. PGI is trying to set things up so that the advantage is not so big in games.

Edited by Lynx7725, 15 September 2014 - 09:18 PM.

[Coralld]

Yes, Clan mechs do in fact fallow the rules they were set with in TT. The only thing that they do not fallow currently is that in TT, when a CL XL mech loses a side torso, or anything which causes engine damage, they get a speed and heat penalty per crit loss. In MWO however, they do not.

[Lucian Nostra]

Strictly speaking no clan mechs don't. PGI has allowed us to redistribute armor to get around mechs like the Summoner and Kit Fox having terrible armor loads (as well as the upcoming Hellbringer)

With that said the level of IS customization while fitting in the rules, is out of control. Engine swaps and endo-steel swapping didn't happen.. New versions of said chassis would roll off the lines with endo but it's not a refit ability, and I can't recall a single instance of a Mech getting an engine swap outside the Bounty Hunter's Marauder (one super special character.. well a passed down persona really).

To draw a correlation, sure you can drop a Ferrari v12 engine into your Honda civic with work.. but how many people do you see driving Civics with Ferrari v12 engines?

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 15 September 2014 - 09:55 PM.

[Quxudica]

Coralld, on 15 September 2014 - 09:26 PM, said:

Yes, Clan mechs do in fact fallow the rules they were set with in TT. The only thing that they do not fallow currently is that in TT, when a CL XL mech loses a side torso, or anything which causes engine damage, they get a speed and heat penalty per crit loss. In MWO however, they do not.

Heat rules in general aren't followed in the game, though I really thing a better heat system could be made if they took more queues from how TT heat works.

[Coralld]

Quxudica, on 15 September 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

Heat rules in general aren't followed in the game, though I really thing a better heat system could be made if they took more queues from how TT heat works.

The OP was talking about Clan mechs and their stuff specifically, not about the game as a whole.

[EboneezeeR]

TT is no rule for MWO. Stop posting that TT heresy here.

Edited by EboneezeeR, 16 September 2014 - 06:39 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

Red October911, on 15 September 2014 - 09:14 PM, said:

I find it a bit silly to be hitting mechs and delivering full/ half damage with ER clan Mlas at ranges that a normal IS Mlas would just love to be able to attain. Or indeed a Clan UAC/5 that fires so many more rounds before jamming unlike IS version that can fire 4-5 max before jamming.

Are there some distinct down sides to the clanners that I'm not aware of (except not being able to change engine, mechs + weapons costing more C-Bills and heat being more intense on Clan weapons).

P.S. this isn't meant to be a nagging post, I just want to see what you other folks think about the clans...

The only thing the clan mech have is range on the lasers. The uac weapons jam all the time, you can't count the burst rounds time as fired. I wouldn't take an IS ac weapon any day. The burst spread on clan weapons is really bad.

I would take IS lrm weapons, streaming lrms spreads and is shot down by ams.

IS srms are about the same but IS they have little more dmg.

Soon when they nerf clans some more as they said they would do, I don't see much of a reason to play them over IS.

[BourbonFaucet]

EboneezeeR, on 16 September 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

TT is no rule for MWO. Stop posting that TT heresy here.

But should we ignore corerule?

[Joseph Mallan]

Coralld, on 15 September 2014 - 09:26 PM, said:

Yes, Clan mechs do in fact fallow the rules they were set with in TT. The only thing that they do not fallow currently is that in TT, when a CL XL mech loses a side torso, or anything which causes engine damage, they get a speed and heat penalty per crit loss. In MWO however, they do not.

Also On TT Omnis do not get to add or subtract armor.

EboneezeeR, on 16 September 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

TT is no rule for MWO. Stop posting that TT heresy here.

Sorry man but this is a BattleTech game(says so in the upper left corner) and as such should adhere where it can to those Mechanics.

[Redshift2k5]

Clan ERMLs certainly do have range that an IS ML "would love to attain" and in the TT it actually has even more range (CERML got a small range nerf recently)

Clans have a few more restrictions in TT, such as not changing armor values, but overall Clan mechs/equipment is weaker in MWO than TT because otherwise, like previous MW titles, clan mechs would be ridiculous.

Clan mech hitboxes are generally not that great, many builds suffer from lack of horizontal arm movement so they're basically turrets, and many have poor speed compared to an IS mech or are locked with no Endosteel giving them less weight to work with. Clan lights also don't run at 150-175 KPH

Inner Sphere guns also are much better at pinpoint FLD, a Banshee with 2 PPC/3AC5s will do less damage total than a Dire Wolf with 6 ERML and 4 UAC5s but the Banshee can put all that damage to ONE spot and the Dire Wolf can't (2 guass/2ppc dire wolf is kinda another problem though, but the real comparison there will be to the yet-to-be-released King Crab)

I'm not sure how often a Clan UAC5 jams, but keep in mind it would not jam per-bullet but per-burst (one burst of an Clan UAC5 does 5 damage total). Generally you see UAC5s on a Dire Wolf with 4-6 of them so even if one jams you'll still see a buttload of bullets coming out anyway.

IS vs Clan balance is not terrible, and you have to look at the whole picture and not comparing one weapon to another, although it's hard to say for sure without long term/wide scope clan vs is combat.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 16 September 2014 - 07:07 AM.

[Murphy7]

Coralld, on 15 September 2014 - 09:26 PM, said:

Yes, Clan mechs do in fact fallow the rules they were set with in TT. The only thing that they do not fallow currently is that in TT, when a CL XL mech loses a side torso, or anything which causes engine damage, they get a speed and heat penalty per crit loss. In MWO however, they do not.

Engine hits do not bring about a speed decrease in TT, at least not directly.

Speed decreases and loss of accuracy would occur as you climb the heat scale. Each engine hit would be a static increase in heat of 5 heat points per engine hit. Three engine hits and your mech was done.

This could be accomplished in MW: O if (1) engine hits were kept track of, and (2) it was applied as a hard floor to the in game heat scale (1 hit = +10% heat to the bottom for the envirionment, 2 hits +20% to the bottom for the environment)* such that you have progressively less total heat scale to work within when fighting in game.

*Corrected for environment would look like this:

• Terra Therma : No engine hits = 10% heat, 1 engine hit = 20% heat, 2 engine hits 30% heat
  
• Frozen City: No engine hits = 0% heat, 1 engine hit = 10% heat, 2 engine hits - 20 % heat
  
• Canyon Network: No engine hits = 4 % heat, 1 engine hit = 14% heat, 2 engine hits - 24% heat

Where % heat is the base level for your mech not moving. This would be a way to make engine hits and clan side torso losses hurt a bit more while straying closer to TT and not leaving standard engines unscathed.

Not sure how this affects TTK - losing heat room when fighitng cuts your firepower, but accruing three engine hits across your torsos could get you out of the game without full loss of a section, so I cannot tell.

[Coralld]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 September 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

Also On TT Omnis do not get to add or subtract armor.

You are correct, forgot about that.

Murphy7, on 16 September 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

Engine hits do not bring about a speed decrease in TT, at least not directly.

Speed decreases and loss of accuracy would occur as you climb the heat scale. Each engine hit would be a static increase in heat of 5 heat points per engine hit. Three engine hits and your mech was done.

This could be accomplished in MW: O if (1) engine hits were kept track of, and (2) it was applied as a hard floor to the in game heat scale (1 hit = +10% heat to the bottom for the envirionment, 2 hits +20% to the bottom for the environment)* such that you have progressively less total heat scale to work within when fighting in game.

*Corrected for environment would look like this:

• Terra Therma : No engine hits = 10% heat, 1 engine hit = 20% heat, 2 engine hits 30% heat
  
• Frozen City: No engine hits = 0% heat, 1 engine hit = 10% heat, 2 engine hits - 20 % heat
  
• Canyon Network: No engine hits = 4 % heat, 1 engine hit = 14% heat, 2 engine hits - 24% heat

Where % heat is the base level for your mech not moving. This would be a way to make engine hits and clan side torso losses hurt a bit more while straying closer to TT and not leaving standard engines unscathed.


Not sure how this affects TTK - losing heat room when fighitng cuts your firepower, but accruing three engine hits across your torsos could get you out of the game without full loss of a section, so I cannot tell.

That would be very interesting to have in MWO.