104 replies to this topic

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Arm lock was added to the game to help the new player come to terms with piloting, a side effect of this was that experienced players can take advantage of a system that removes convergence from the system of balance because the torso and arms move together.

This system helps alpha based builds get all their shots on target at the same time in the same locality of the opposing mechs quicker than having to wait for the torso and arms to line up against a moving target.

What's peoples thoughts on arm lock? should it be removed and convergence returned (and improved upon)

[Budor]

Maybe. I run with armlock on most of the time (switch via mousethumb if necessary) because its so good :/

3rd person as default certainly needs to removed though, its a hindrance not a help.

Edited by Budor, 09 September 2014 - 10:05 AM.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

Remove arm lock and implement punch and kick switches. Targeted of course.

I want to see a lance of mediums ganging up on an Atlas and plinking its armor with ~10dmg kicks.

Edited by ArchMage Sparrowhawk, 09 September 2014 - 10:06 AM.

[BourbonFaucet]

DV McKenna, on 09 September 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

Arm lock was added to the game to help the new player come to terms with piloting, a side effect of this was that experienced players can take advantage of a system that removes convergence from the system of balance because the torso and arms move together.

This system helps alpha based builds get all their shots on target at the same time in the same locality of the opposing mechs quicker than having to wait for the torso and arms to line up against a moving target.

What's peoples thoughts on arm lock? should it be removed and convergence returned (and improved upon)

You're going to get varied responses, from people saying armlock is a crutch, to those who like it for the sake of how older targeting was, to those who hate it for no reason, to those who have a good reason to hate it.

Personally? I use it unless I have to aim because seeing the cockpit's bars turn slower than the screen when aiming left or right annoys me and throws my ability to shoot off.

[charov]

Never used it.

[PhoenixFire55]

Nobody with a clue how to shoot uses arm lock all the time as it gives more penalties than benefits.

[Haxburch]

Dont fix stuff wich doesnt need fixes !!! Do you not have other silly problems ? Freedom is a gift , gos save the free decision . Down with the dictators!

Edited by Haxburch, 09 September 2014 - 10:13 AM.

[POWR]

But, it doesn't do any of those things ? It just removes arm movement.

[Redshift2k5]

There's too many mechs with no lower am actuators (and even ones with modular ones), people would just gravitate to mechs with no elbows and/or clan mechs and toggle them off if there was a sliver of advantage to running with arms locked and you removed the keybind.

Why bother when so many mechs can arm lock if the player wants to (by mech choice or clan actuator toggle)?

[Lucky Strongarm]

I have not yet been able to determine a situation in which it is advantageous for the weapons on my arms to fire in a different direction than my torso. That being said, I unlock my arms occasionally, such as when I'm shooting down over a cliff. Other than that, my mech doesn't need arms. At least I don't think it does.

[That Dawg]

Budor, on 09 September 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

3rd person as default certainly needs to removed though, its a hindrance not a help.

NO, I LOVE third person. LOVE IT
any idea how many times I've dumb fired arty, airstrikes, LRM launches at that glowing little red ball floating about a building, ridge line, boulder?

[Budor]

ThatDawg, on 09 September 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

NO, I LOVE third person. LOVE IT
any idea how many times I've dumb fired arty, airstrikes, LRM launches at that glowing little red ball floating about a building, ridge line, boulder?

Exactly...also not being able to aim properly because theres this weird vertical 1cm throwoff around the horizon sure helps new players.

Edited by Budor, 09 September 2014 - 10:18 AM.

[Roland]

I feel like the game's been somewhat dumbed down as a result of this change.

Now, removing arm lock won't magically fix all the convergence issues... there are still lots of mechs with torso mounted guns, or no lower arm actuators and thus have less convergence issues with arm mounted weapons...

But overall? I think the game is better off without arm lock.

[NextGame]

DV McKenna, on 09 September 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

Arm lock was added to the game to help the new player come to terms with piloting, a side effect of this was that experienced players can take advantage of a system that removes convergence from the system of balance because the torso and arms move together.

This system helps alpha based builds get all their shots on target at the same time in the same locality of the opposing mechs quicker than having to wait for the torso and arms to line up against a moving target.

What's peoples thoughts on arm lock? should it be removed and convergence returned (and improved upon)

I like arm lock, it should stay. I do think that, like many other elements of MWO, its function and usage need to be made clearer to new players.

Building on Sparrowhawks comment around melee: Should they ever add it, I would be in favour of some sort of upgrade for unlocking melee for mechs that could be capable of it, which would disable arm lock for said mechs when taken. That would effectively be a balancing mechanism that would allow them to make melee reasonably effective without overpowering it.

Given that we can currently slaughter anyone in 3 or 4 seconds with a quad uac10 DW (which is hilarious fun), I'm not sure arm lock is the biggest problem, I think its more a general survivability issue.

I agree that work needs to happen at some point around convergence, as I think arm locked and torso weapons should converge on the crosshair at a fixed range point (the optimum range for that weapon, maybe even allow some minor tuning to that in the mechlab for each weapon), rather than the next solid object beyond the crosshair.

Edited by NextGame, 09 September 2014 - 10:27 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Redshift2k5, on 09 September 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

There's too many mechs with no lower am actuators (and even ones with modular ones), people would just gravitate to mechs with no elbows and/or clan mechs and toggle them off if there was a sliver of advantage to running with arms locked and you removed the keybind.

Why bother when so many mechs can arm lock if the player wants to (by mech choice or clan actuator toggle)?

The clan toggle would present a problem yes, the other on the IS side would present additional mech quirks which may change the landscape of mechs (albeit maybe not)

[terrycloth]

No. You should not remove it. Making the UI less convenient is just dumb. Since mechs mount both arm and torso weaponry, most of them want arm lock on by default and you can toggle it off for the few where that makes sense.

[Roland]

terrycloth, on 09 September 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

No. You should not remove it. Making the UI less convenient is just dumb. Since mechs mount both arm and torso weaponry, most of them want arm lock on by default and you can toggle it off for the few where that makes sense.

You're kind of missing the point though man.

Yes, you "want" arm lock because it makes it easier to focus all your weapons on a single point.

Consider that perhaps the game would be better if it were harder to do that.

[Bishop Steiner]

DV McKenna, on 09 September 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

Arm lock was added to the game to help the new player come to terms with piloting, a side effect of this was that experienced players can take advantage of a system that removes convergence from the system of balance because the torso and arms move together.

This system helps alpha based builds get all their shots on target at the same time in the same locality of the opposing mechs quicker than having to wait for the torso and arms to line up against a moving target.

What's peoples thoughts on arm lock? should it be removed and convergence returned (and improved upon)

I tried to run one of these posts months ago.

The "L33Ts" and pros pretty much tried to burn me at a stake.

It's a crutch, as long as it snaps the arms back to lock faster than one could with out, it's a crutch, and a bit of an exploit.

I am fine with it being available and explained, and such during the Cadet Phase, but once that is over, IMO both 3pV (while not gamebreaking, still hate it, lol. AND IF it was indeed to help new players......... ) and Arm Lock should be locked out.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 September 2014 - 10:27 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Lucky Strongarm, on 09 September 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

I have not yet been able to determine a situation in which it is advantageous for the weapons on my arms to fire in a different direction than my torso. That being said, I unlock my arms occasionally, such as when I'm shooting down over a cliff. Other than that, my mech doesn't need arms. At least I don't think it does.

Well for one, you can track and shoot 2 targets at one time when unlocked. That is of course if you know your Mech well and have properly grouped its weapons.

Edited by Almond Brown, 09 September 2014 - 10:29 AM.

[Lucky Strongarm]

Almond Brown, on 09 September 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

Well for one, you can track and shoot 2 targets at one time when unlocked. That is of course if you know your Mech well and have properly grouped its weapons.

That is a skill for pilots much better than me, of which there are many. Still, I do prefer to focus the malice of all my weapons upon a single foe, one at a time.