307 replies to this topic

[Gierling]

If you lose 50% of your weaponry, 50% of your heat efficiency is a wash.

That's not a meaningful penalty. If you and an inner sphere XL get into a fight, and you both lose a torso,he is dead and you are now running around still capable of influencing the battle.

Oh and did I mention that you had more firepower and armor then the spheroid so it would be a case of him overperforming to trade torsos in a fight.

Losing a torso needs to be a serious impediment, remember inner sphere pilots DIE when they lose a torso. So merely being put in a bad circumstance assuming you have been pushing your heat curve aggressively compares very favorably as still being 100% superior to running an Inner Sphere XL.

Edited by Gierling, 17 September 2014 - 09:45 AM.

[Damien Tokala]

And your suggestion means we die as well, making the survivability useless while you sit there in a standard and shoot my face with A-crutch20s

[Metus regem]

Gierling, on 17 September 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

If you lose 50% of your weaponry, 50% of your heat efficiency is a wash.

That's not a meaningful penalty. If you and an inner sphere XL get into a fight, and you both lose a torso,he is dead and you are now running around still capable of influencing the battle.

Oh and did I mention that you had more firepower and armor then the spheroid so it would be a case of him overperforming to trade torsos in a fight.

Losing a torso needs to be a serious impediment, remember inner sphere pilots DIE when they lose a torso. So merely being put in a bad circumstance assuming you have been pushing your heat curve aggressively compares very favorably as still being 100% superior to running an Inner Sphere XL.

Yes and in a few years (time line wise, as soon as 3053 for the prototypes) the IS get Light engines that are 75% weight of the STD's but work like Clan XL's, as in only two cirts in the sides, rather than 3.

So maybe MWO will do a time jump or let that tech filter in sooner, to keep people like you from all the crying about clan OP ness.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Gierling, on 17 September 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

Oh and did I mention that you had more firepower and armor then the spheroid so it would be a case of him overperforming to trade torsos in a fight.

Don't know about you but my Timberwolf has the same max armor as an orion, the same as the Direwolf has the same as the D-DC.

As to more firepower, you conveniently forget the IS has the adv in PP FLD, compared to the clans DoT lasers and UAC's, so it's actually alot closer than you think, the up coming changes to clan XL's will close the gap.

You are free to bring standard engines to remove your death penalty, the clans will have to live with their crippled abilities on torso loss.

Edited by DV McKenna, 17 September 2014 - 09:52 AM.

[Bilbo]

Gierling, on 17 September 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

If you lose 50% of your weaponry, 50% of your heat efficiency is a wash.

That's not a meaningful penalty. If you and an inner sphere XL get into a fight, and you both lose a torso,he is dead and you are now running around still capable of influencing the battle.

Oh and did I mention that you had more firepower and armor then the spheroid so it would be a case of him overperforming to trade torsos in a fight.

Losing a torso needs to be a serious impediment, remember inner sphere pilots DIE when they lose a torso. So merely being put in a bad circumstance assuming you have been pushing your heat curve aggressively compares very favorably as still being 100% superior to running an Inner Sphere XL.

IS mechs don't necessarily have XL engines equipped and the clan mech is only going to have more armor if he outweighs you. They are talking about movement and heat penalties already. Anything more than that would be overkill.

[Bront]

DV McKenna, on 17 September 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

Is the extra heat not coming from the fact they just lost half their engine heat sinks?

As opposed to giving them extra extra heat which is just stupid.

The extra heat is in theory because of heat leaking from the damaged fusion reactor. In TT, the heat doesn't change even with DHS.

[KraftySOT]

Nope. It should reduce their speed, and increase their heat. Like the TT

[Gierling]

Damien, its a huge disadvantage but still quite survivable if you are fighting at range, or with teammates.

Metus, Light engines are still in every way inferior to Clan XL's. That's not a argument for balance.

McKenna, clan weapons are lighter, allowing heavier armor. Pound for pound a clan mech doing the same damage as an IS mech will have more armor.

[Destructicus]

Gierling, on 17 September 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

If you lose 50% of your weaponry, 50% of your heat efficiency is a wash.

That's not a meaningful penalty. If you and an inner sphere XL get into a fight, and you both lose a torso,he is dead and you are now running around still capable of influencing the battle.

Oh and did I mention that you had more firepower and armor then the spheroid so it would be a case of him overperforming to trade torsos in a fight.

Losing a torso needs to be a serious impediment, remember inner sphere pilots DIE when they lose a torso. So merely being put in a bad circumstance assuming you have been pushing your heat curve aggressively compares very favorably as still being 100% superior to running an Inner Sphere XL.

You seem to conveniently forget that we're bound to XL engines, we can't change to STD engines

[Damien Tokala]

It really isn't. It doesn't take long to shred an overheated mech.

[Destructicus]

Gierling, on 17 September 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

Damien, its a huge disadvantage but still quite survivable if you are fighting at range, or with teammates.

Metus, Light engines are still in every way inferior to Clan XL's. That's not a argument for balance.

McKenna, clan weapons are lighter, allowing heavier armor. Pound for pound a clan mech doing the same damage as an IS mech will have more armor.

you're talking about balance but you're trying to get clans to shut down so you can take cheap popshots?
You're idea is terrible, why can't you admit it?

[CrashieJ]

on clan XL side torso loss

-15% movement speed
-10% heat dissipation/cap
all "Pocketed" internal engine heatsinks are still inside

[KraftySOT]

gavilatius, on 17 September 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

on clan XL side torso loss

-15% movement speed
-10% heat dissipation/cap
all "Pocketed" internal engine heatsinks are still inside

Should be more severe than that. 3 engine hits destroys you, so were talking 2/3rds of that is accomplished. More like -60% and -40%

Basically youre lucky to be alive. The clans XL only provides the benefit that you dont instantly die losing a left or right torso. Youre still basically rendered ineffective.

And not instantly dying is still a huge advantage. Because the enemy has to keep blasting you, and you can keep soaking up damage meant for team mates.

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

You seem to conveniently forget that we're bound to XL engines, we can't change to STD engines

Some of yer mechs dont have em.

This s why people want the Kingfisher.

[Gierling]

Destructicus, I'm talking about balance because Clan mechs need to be 1v1 on par with IS mechs.

The ClanXL allows them huge weight savings with no survivability penalty. True Balance would be to just have Clan mechs die on torso loss (and add a Clan Standard engine option), however I don't think you would accept that either.

Do you have an argument other then "Clans are supposed to be better"?

[Destructicus]

What OP is basically saying is that he's so bad he can't kill a Clan mech unless it's not moving or shooting him back.
"hurdurr your weapons are lighter and more powerful"
But extremely hot
"BUT YOUR XL ENGINES ARE SO OP"
But we can't swap them out for bigger or smaller ratings or to STD, if IS engine rules were applied to clan mechs it would be insta death for all clan mechs, not to mention we're bound by our lack of speed.

If you knew anything about clan mechs you'd understand how ridiculous your proposal is.

[Scratx]

Gierling, on 17 September 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Destructicus, I'm talking about balance because Clan mechs need to be 1v1 on par with IS mechs.

The ClanXL allows them huge weight savings with no survivability penalty. True Balance would be to just have Clan mechs die on torso loss (and add a Clan Standard engine option), however I don't think you would accept that either.

Do you have an argument other then "Clans are supposed to be better"?

Can I put endo-steel and ferro-fibrous on my Summoner and Nova?

[Gierling]

Right so your sticking with the "Supposed to be better" line of argument.

[KraftySOT]

Also, you dont have to nerf the clan weapons into IS weapons, if you guys can be effectively rendered moot by blasting out your left or right torso.

And it KILLS us if we carry one. We lose weight, which means firepower, and speed, by not using an XL. So were already at a disadvantage in those terms.

Were less survivable, with less weapons and armor. However we have more options. Thats how you make up for that deficinecy.

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

What OP is basically saying is that he's so bad he can't kill a Clan mech unless it's not moving or shooting him back.
"hurdurr your weapons are lighter and more powerful"
But extremely hot
"BUT YOUR XL ENGINES ARE SO OP"
But we can't swap them out for bigger or smaller ratings or to STD, if IS engine rules were applied to clan mechs it would be insta death for all clan mechs, not to mention we're bound by our lack of speed.

If you knew anything about clan mechs you'd understand how ridiculous your proposal is.

No but you have more firepower, and theres a **** ton of clan mechs with standard engines. They just havent rolled them out yet.

The best clan mechs are usually those with XLs, and thats why those invaded the inner sphere.

But seriously did you miss the Kingfisher?

FFS dude youre not even on point with your anti-whine whining.

[AdamBaines]

Gierling, on 17 September 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Destructicus, I'm talking about balance because Clan mechs need to be 1v1 on par with IS mechs.

No. I cannot disagree more with this statement.

Oh well, maybe I can.

Hells-to-the-No

[Destructicus]

Gierling, on 17 September 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

True Balance would be to just have Clan mechs die on torso loss (and add a Clan Standard engine option), however I don't think you would accept that either.

Do you have an argument other then "Clans are supposed to be better"?

No, fixed engine ratings is a restriction I accept with my mechs
That leaves less room for customization.
if they did allow us to swap out engines, you people would by whining about how DW's are flying around at 81kph
Not everybody likes XL engines, I have mostly STD engines on all my IS brawlers because I prefer survivability to speed.

I never said "that clans are supposed to be better"
Don't put words in my mouth
They need to be different from IS mechs
What you're proposing is nerfing Clan mechs in a way that would break the game.