307 replies to this topic

[KraftySOT]

And logic dictates...if there is a fundamental flaw in something, and it causes you to do something else to fix it, which then causes something else to need to be fixed, which then causes something else to need to be fixed...you should have just fixed the fundamental flaw. The basepoint. Where the problem started.

Did the problem start with poptarting? Did it start in MWO? Did it start in MW3? Did it start in the original Mechwarrior? Find where the problem is and correct the problem.

[Revis Volek]

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

But it isn't
You're giving yourself these arbitrary ultimatums
Get rid of ghost heat and just ghost heat and then what?
huzzah, ghost heat is gone and the game it that much better
You seem determined to make things more difficult
The game worked fine before ghostheat


so my logic is flawed if I think that the removal of ghost heat is good without moving totally towards TT?
explain

That one wasnt meant for you, my quote didnt come through. I edited the post...sorry for the mixup.

[Destructicus]

DarthRevis, on 17 September 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

That one wasnt meant for you, my quote didnt come through. I edited the post...sorry for the mixup.

I got that lol
all good
didn't realize we were agreeing.

Edited by Destructicus, 17 September 2014 - 01:54 PM.

[KraftySOT]

DarthRevis, on 17 September 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

"...only Sith's deal in absolutes...."




Its not "either or" if you have countless other variables....your logic is flawed.

Its A, B or the rest.....

Incorrect. Because anything but A is "other".

I want a Pepsi at the Applebees.

"Sorry sir we have B,C,D,E,F, and G, and unsweet tea"

Well then I have two choices. I can leave, or I can go with the "other".

You guys seem to forget theres a baseline here. I went into the applebees wanting a specific thing. The IP predates MWO and people want specific things.

It IS either or, because its either TT, or, its not.

There is no "well its sort of TT...I mean the medium laser does 5.2 damage, thats pretty close?"

No, that is most assuredly not, TT.

[Revis Volek]

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

I got that lol
all good
didn't realize we were agreeing.

I do agree with you however we dont need a total adoption of TT rules but use them as a start and then go from there. If they used degrees of the TT rules and catered then to MWO like other have?

Maybe cut the heat generation from TT to increase DPS and make it feel more FPSish? Or increase cooling so that we can all shoot happy go lucky but still have to manage ourselves? I am not as versed as some of the other in the full mechanics but i have seen much better suggestions then exponential GH.

[Destructicus]

KraftySOT, on 17 September 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

And logic dictates...if there is a fundamental flaw in something, and it causes you to do something else to fix it, which then causes something else to need to be fixed, which then causes something else to need to be fixed...you should have just fixed the fundamental flaw. The basepoint. Where the problem started.

Did the problem start with poptarting? Did it start in MWO? Did it start in MW3? Did it start in the original Mechwarrior? Find where the problem is and correct the problem.

you have this huge hard on for trying to come off as logical don't you?
You just come off as pretentious
The problem was the variable, the players.
Players with "a must win at all costs "mentality
That's where poptarting came from, cheap easily exploitable mechanics
That's why ghost heat was implemented along with the gauss charge.
A lot of convoluted mechanics to fix the FLD PP alpha craze.
The problem was meta knights

DarthRevis, on 17 September 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

I do agree with you however we dont need a total adoption of TT rules but use them as a start and then go from there. If they used degrees of the TT rules and catered then to MWO like other have?

Maybe cut the heat generation from TT to increase DPS and make it feel more FPSish? Or increase cooling so that we can all shoot happy go lucky but still have to manage ourselves? I am not as versed as some of the other in the full mechanics but i have seen much better suggestions then exponential GH.

This is exactly what I'm saying, but as you said, this guy loves to deal in absolutes, I thinking a strict 100% adherence to TT is ludicrous

Edited by Destructicus, 17 September 2014 - 02:01 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

But it isn't
You're giving yourself these arbitrary ultimatums
Get rid of ghost heat and just ghost heat and then what?
huzzah, ghost heat is gone and the game it that much better
You seem determined to make things more difficult
The game worked fine before ghostheat

Difficult is good.

And no you cant, at this point, given any sort of credit to reality, just remove arbitrarily, systems which are ultimately bandaids of other broken systems. You have to fix the fundamental flaw that eliminates most of the problems. Then you have a little breathing room to make the other changes in context, to make sure no ones game is ruined in the mean time (we are in a real time environment not just n the game)

Ill post this again:

Malleus011, on 16 September 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

The issues, IMHO.


Major Issues:

• Ghost Heat: A widely hated solution to the boating of PP FLD weapons. It partially fixed the problem, but really pushed players to other combinations to do the same thing. A complex issue which will likely require a comprehensive solution.
  
• Low Time-to-Kill: Nearly unlimited customization of IS 'mechs and PP FLD weapons have created very low time-to-kill in most matches. This is very discouraging for new players and doesn't fit the desired 'feel' of giant robot battlefield combat.
  
• Weak Jump Jets: 'Pop-tarting' - using JJ's to perform a low jump and firing at the apex with PP FLD weapons provoked the change that severely under-powered Jump Jets. Current JJ's are far, far short of Canon jump distances and are really only useful for climbing hills and low obstacles. Restoring JJ's to full tactical mobility while not reintroducing pop-tart sniping would be desirable.
  
• ECM: This 1.5 ton module is quite powerful for its weight, and a 'no brainer' to always take when possible. Though not as important in elite team play, lack of ECM in the general que can be a serious issue. Extremely confusing for new players.
  
• Lack of Community Warfare: a reason to keep playing.
  
• Lack of Role Warfare: all 'mechs are essentially combat 'mechs. There is minimal scouting, skirmishing, or other tasks to complete in matches.
  
• Lack of Game Modes/Mission types: We effectively have three flavors of Deathmatch.
  
• Lack of Maps: We have a very small number of maps, many plagued with errors like invisible walls and movement blockers.

Minor Issues:

• Gauss Charge: Nerfed because the combination circumvented Ghost Heat and was extremely powerful. Seriously penalizes 'mechs which rely on a single Gauss. While many players adapted to the charge mechanic, a significant portion of the player base simply abandoned the Gauss rifle entirely. Gauss boating become a problem with Clans and led to a limit of two GR's charging at once. The charge is not canon and faintly ridiculous to 'charge' a weapon which explodes when critted because it is holding a charge ...
  
• PPC speed nerf: Again, imposed because of PP FLD optimization. Seriously penalizes 'mechs which rely on a single PPC.
  
• Victor and Highlander agility nerfs: Imposed due to pop tart meta, now merely makes the chassis sluggish. A minor issue, but should be reverted or at the very least cut in half.
  
• LRMs: MWO struggles with LRM implementation, because general que LRM boating can be extremely effective. Inexperienced players have difficulty coping with the indirect fire mechanic, while elite players rarely bother with such a 'weak' weapons system.
  
• Obsolete Skill system: Many of the Elite skills don't even work. Ideally, this should be reworked with mutually exclusive trees and smaller, more numerous benefits.
  
• The Grind: Buying three chassis of a single type to allow mastery creates a long, expensive grind. Removing the 'three chassis' requirement would make the game more friendly to new players.
  
• High Prices: Many players feel that the prices of Hero 'mechs and cosmetic items such as paints and patterns are too high, and that there are no true 'micro-transaction' options.

Personal Gripes:

• I don't like the modules system; it isn't canon. Why can't we have manufacturer quirks for various parts and pilot/technician skills instead?
  
• Lack of soul/character: The game treats itself like a game. I don't feel like a mechwarrior dropping into missions, I feel like a gamer loading up a deathmatch.
  
• Lack of insignia and canon skins: Why can't I paint and mark my 'mech properly? I'm part of the 10th Skye Rangers, AFFC, but there's no Skye Rangers skin, no LCAF or AFFC insignia, no Ranger's badge ...
  
• No Urbanmech!

And the single biggest issue which MWO struggles with:

• Pinpoint accuracy and front-loaded damage: As can be seen by the above topics, PP FLD has driven many of the nerfs in the game. There have been dozens of good suggestions for alternatives - reticle sway, cone-of-fire, convergence, etc. Many of which could work; but which one? And how to win over the die-hard players who like PP FLD gameplay? This is probably the single biggest root cause of MWO's balance troubles. Fixing THIS issue could easily allow the REMOVAL of most of the above list.

This is the fastest way to get you a stable platform from which to start making the changes in a rational manner , that would bring us at least closer, to 100% TT than anything else has in the history of the IP being a video game in the first person setting.

[Damien Tokala]

Ghost heat is not the same as ghost bears, REMEMBER THAT RUSS!

[pwnface]

KraftySOT, on 17 September 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

Incorrect. Because anything but A is "other".

I want a Pepsi at the Applebees.

"Sorry sir we have B,C,D,E,F, and G, and unsweet tea"

Well then I have two choices. I can leave, or I can go with the "other".

You guys seem to forget theres a baseline here. I went into the applebees wanting a specific thing. The IP predates MWO and people want specific things.

It IS either or, because its either TT, or, its not.

There is no "well its sort of TT...I mean the medium laser does 5.2 damage, thats pretty close?"

No, that is most assuredly not, TT.

If you want a total adoption of TT rules go play megamek. TT is a board game, MWO is a computer game, these are completely different mediums and should be treated as such.

I understand that there are players that want MWO to follow 100% TT, but this doesn't make sense in a game where you can AIM. TT values are based on random chance (dice rolls) for hitting enemies. How many people do you think would be playing this game if we had digital dice rolls for every shot we wanted to take?

[KraftySOT]

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

you have this huge hard on for trying to come off as logical don't you?
The problem was the variable, the players.
Players with "a must win at all costs "mentality
That's where poptarting came from, cheap easily exploitable mechanics
That's why ghost heat was implemented along with the gauss charge.
A lot of convoluted mechanics to fix the FLD PP alpha craze.
The problem was meta knights


This is exactly what I'm saying, but as you said, this guy loves to deal in absolutes, I thinking a strict 100% adherence to TT is ludicrous

No the problem was pin point accuracy.

If they couldnt hit the same point on a mech with all their weapons, or even hit with every weapon every time they fired an alpha...that would never have happened.

You blame the psychology of the meta knight.

Thats like saying the gang banger stole a wallet that was sitting in the middle of an empty room with no one watching with 1,000 dollars in it and the gang bangers psychology is the problem...and not hte guy who let him into the room or left the wallet there.

No the problem is the base problem, that the meta knight could do that in the first place. Which ISNT something you can do in the TT.

Instead of throwing ghost heat at the problem, how about figuring out a good way to keep people from hitting the same location in a mech with an entire alpha strike...which doesnt even happen on Novas and Supernovas and other boats in the TT...

You say "well we can aim at any part we want"

Yet theres nothing about how you have to actually hit what youre aiming at.

You say "Its because its an FPS"

Yet all FPS, have inaccurate weapons, and detailed systems for making sure its at least remotely realistic and the opponent has a chance. Even in the non realistic ones like Unreal Tournament or Quake...everything isnt that accurate.

Its an oversight in the series and MWO especially.

If you look at the TT, and the results of the TT, and youre not matching those results in MWO, something is wrong. The way to get the results to be the same which is what we all want generally, is not arbitrary systems that have no origin in the TT.

pwnface, on 17 September 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

If you want a total adoption of TT rules go play megamek. TT is a board game, MWO is a computer game, these are completely different mediums and should be treated as such.

I understand that there are players that want MWO to follow 100% TT, but this doesn't make sense in a game where you can AIM. TT values are based on random chance (dice rolls) for hitting enemies. How many people do you think would be playing this game if we had digital dice rolls for every shot we wanted to take?

You can aim in Battlefield 4 yet every shot you fire wont hit the exact same spot. You aim at the head, you hit the chest, you aim at the chest you hit the wall next to them.

You keep saying this word AIM like its just obligatory in ALL video games that everything is 100% accurate down to a pixel.

[Revis Volek]

KraftySOT, on 17 September 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

Incorrect. Because anything but A is "other".

I want a Pepsi at the Applebees.

"Sorry sir we have B,C,D,E,F, and G, and unsweet tea"

Well then I have two choices. I can leave, or I can go with the "other".

You guys seem to forget theres a baseline here. I went into the applebees wanting a specific thing. The IP predates MWO and people want specific things.

It IS either or, because its either TT, or, its not.

There is no "well its sort of TT...I mean the medium laser does 5.2 damage, thats pretty close?"

No, that is most assuredly not, TT.

"Applebees" never said take what we have of GTFO. You took it upon yourself to cut down your choices to A or B....sorry that you want it all or nothing but that isnt how the rest of world works. Applebees said we have tons of options that will do the exact same thing as a Pepsi. We even have Coke which is almost exactly the same other then the name....

If they started this game with the same mindset as you it would have never made it out of Alpha....

Not to mention you are arguing semantics not even the TT rules anymore.

One quick question, if you go to the super market and get your whole list, then last thing you get is milk? do you just drop you whole cart and leave because they didn't have "your brand"? If we met the same goals and the game is enjoyable what difference does it make weather they adopt the TT rules in full effect of use them as a baseline to make a FUN game of off?

[KraftySOT]

Which is a lie. And its malevolent.


Youre lying. Flat out.

World of Tanks and this game share alot of similarities. Where is the cone of fire in our weapons? The recoil? The covergence timing?

All of those things TT.

Its about the results.

If your weapons didnt converge at all, youd have TT like damage being washed over a mech. You fire from the right side, youll hit the right side, or if you fire from above or partial cover, youll hit those areas, but thats it with the aiming.

DarthRevis, on 17 September 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

"Applebees" never said take what we have of GTFO. You took it upon yourself to cut down your choices to A or B....sorry that you want it all or nothing but that isnt how the rest of world works. Applebees said we have tons of options that will do the exact same thing as a Pepsi. We even have Coke which is almost exactly the same other then the name....

If they started this game with the same mindset as you it would have never made it out of Alpha....

Not to mention you are arguing semantics not even the TT rules anymore.

One quick question, if you go to the super market and get your whole list, then last thing you get is milk? do you just drop you whole cart and leave because they didn't have "your brand"? If we met the same goals and the game is enjoyable what difference does it make weather they adopt the TT rules in full effect of use them as a baseline to make a FUN game of off?

Very true not arguing that, but its about perspective.

If PGI offers you something you dont want, it doesnt matter how many flavors they have of it? Thats logical right?

Basically it sounds like you like poptarting.

Because the TT rules would put a stop to that.

Just a little random X coord, and a random Y coord, within a set of parameters. All you need to achieve TT with regards to aiming, and kill poptarts and boats in the meta.

DarthRevis, on 17 September 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

One quick question, if you go to the super market and get your whole list, then last thing you get is milk? do you just drop you whole cart and leave because they didn't have "your brand"? If we met the same goals and the game is enjoyable what difference does it make weather they adopt the TT rules in full effect of use them as a baseline to make a FUN game of off?

No of course not, not if they just dont have my milk. But if they dont have my milk, my bread, my cheese, and the sign out front said fresh food and its all frozen...yeah im out of there.

If this was fixed:

Malleus011, on 16 September 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

The issues, IMHO.


Major Issues:

• Ghost Heat: A widely hated solution to the boating of PP FLD weapons. It partially fixed the problem, but really pushed players to other combinations to do the same thing. A complex issue which will likely require a comprehensive solution.
  
• Low Time-to-Kill: Nearly unlimited customization of IS 'mechs and PP FLD weapons have created very low time-to-kill in most matches. This is very discouraging for new players and doesn't fit the desired 'feel' of giant robot battlefield combat.
  
• Weak Jump Jets: 'Pop-tarting' - using JJ's to perform a low jump and firing at the apex with PP FLD weapons provoked the change that severely under-powered Jump Jets. Current JJ's are far, far short of Canon jump distances and are really only useful for climbing hills and low obstacles. Restoring JJ's to full tactical mobility while not reintroducing pop-tart sniping would be desirable.
  
• ECM: This 1.5 ton module is quite powerful for its weight, and a 'no brainer' to always take when possible. Though not as important in elite team play, lack of ECM in the general que can be a serious issue. Extremely confusing for new players.
  
• Lack of Community Warfare: a reason to keep playing.
  
• Lack of Role Warfare: all 'mechs are essentially combat 'mechs. There is minimal scouting, skirmishing, or other tasks to complete in matches.
  
• Lack of Game Modes/Mission types: We effectively have three flavors of Deathmatch.
  
• Lack of Maps: We have a very small number of maps, many plagued with errors like invisible walls and movement blockers.

Minor Issues:

• Gauss Charge: Nerfed because the combination circumvented Ghost Heat and was extremely powerful. Seriously penalizes 'mechs which rely on a single Gauss. While many players adapted to the charge mechanic, a significant portion of the player base simply abandoned the Gauss rifle entirely. Gauss boating become a problem with Clans and led to a limit of two GR's charging at once. The charge is not canon and faintly ridiculous to 'charge' a weapon which explodes when critted because it is holding a charge ...
  
• PPC speed nerf: Again, imposed because of PP FLD optimization. Seriously penalizes 'mechs which rely on a single PPC.
  
• Victor and Highlander agility nerfs: Imposed due to pop tart meta, now merely makes the chassis sluggish. A minor issue, but should be reverted or at the very least cut in half.
  
• LRMs: MWO struggles with LRM implementation, because general que LRM boating can be extremely effective. Inexperienced players have difficulty coping with the indirect fire mechanic, while elite players rarely bother with such a 'weak' weapons system.
  
• Obsolete Skill system: Many of the Elite skills don't even work. Ideally, this should be reworked with mutually exclusive trees and smaller, more numerous benefits.
  
• The Grind: Buying three chassis of a single type to allow mastery creates a long, expensive grind. Removing the 'three chassis' requirement would make the game more friendly to new players.
  
• High Prices: Many players feel that the prices of Hero 'mechs and cosmetic items such as paints and patterns are too high, and that there are no true 'micro-transaction' options.

Personal Gripes:

• I don't like the modules system; it isn't canon. Why can't we have manufacturer quirks for various parts and pilot/technician skills instead?
  
• Lack of soul/character: The game treats itself like a game. I don't feel like a mechwarrior dropping into missions, I feel like a gamer loading up a deathmatch.
  
• Lack of insignia and canon skins: Why can't I paint and mark my 'mech properly? I'm part of the 10th Skye Rangers, AFFC, but there's no Skye Rangers skin, no LCAF or AFFC insignia, no Ranger's badge ...
  
• No Urbanmech!

And the single biggest issue which MWO struggles with:

• Pinpoint accuracy and front-loaded damage: As can be seen by the above topics, PP FLD has driven many of the nerfs in the game. There have been dozens of good suggestions for alternatives - reticle sway, cone-of-fire, convergence, etc. Many of which could work; but which one? And how to win over the die-hard players who like PP FLD gameplay? This is probably the single biggest root cause of MWO's balance troubles. Fixing THIS issue could easily allow the REMOVAL of most of the above list.

I wouldnt be bitching. I understand ill probably never get exactly what I want. Thats ok. Ill settle for reasonably close.

But for every issue that has been complained about in the past 2 years...TT is the answer.

It always is.

"

• Pinpoint accuracy and front-loaded damage: As can be seen by the above topics, PP FLD has driven many of the nerfs in the game. There have been dozens of good suggestions for alternatives - reticle sway, cone-of-fire, convergence, etc. Many of which could work; but which one? And how to win over the die-hard players who like PP FLD gameplay? This is probably the single biggest root cause of MWO's balance troubles. Fixing THIS issue could easily allow the REMOVAL of most of the above list."

And with Clan XLs...from the OP...


If you fix:

• Pinpoint accuracy and front-loaded damage: As can be seen by the above topics, PP FLD has driven many of the nerfs in the game. There have been dozens of good suggestions for alternatives - reticle sway, cone-of-fire, convergence, etc. Many of which could work; but which one? And how to win over the die-hard players who like PP FLD gameplay? This is probably the single biggest root cause of MWO's balance troubles. Fixing THIS issue could easily allow the REMOVAL of most of the above list.

Then youve also fixed the problem with Clan XLs having a massive penalty because no one is one shotting you into an unfun game.

You can throw all the proper penalties on clan XLs, without them being a horrible game breaking liability...

[Destructicus]

KraftySOT, on 17 September 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

Which is a lie. And its malevolent.


Youre lying. Flat out.

World of Tanks and this game share alot of similarities. Where is the cone of fire in our weapons? The recoil? The covergence timing?

And I said earlier
if you're such a slave to lore and TT all that is explained with targeting computers and ect.
Convergence timing was altered to help with HSR and hitreg
Somebody already made it clear though
Whats the point of all those RNG rolls f we can aim?
You're attempting to complicate simple aiming with rolls and convoluted mechanics we simply don't need, not to mention you have no idea what effect your ideas would have in the engine or if they're even feasible.
engineering issues are a huge roadblock in this game and you wan to complicate that with unnecessary rolls?
when we can just aim?

and you have a bad habit of jumping to conclusions, you got this guy being a poptart from where exactly?
This entire time you've been pulling pretentious bullshit out of your ass and have tried way too hard to be condescending and jumping to weird conclusions about everybody else's play style and preferences.

[Revis Volek]

KraftySOT, on 17 September 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Difficult is good.

And no you cant, at this point, given any sort of credit to reality, just remove arbitrarily, systems which are ultimately bandaids of other broken systems. You have to fix the fundamental flaw that eliminates most of the problems. Then you have a little breathing room to make the other changes in context, to make sure no ones game is ruined in the mean time (we are in a real time environment not just n the game)

Ill post this again:



This is the fastest way to get you a stable platform from which to start making the changes in a rational manner , that would bring us at least closer, to 100% TT than anything else has in the history of the IP being a video game in the first person setting.

Also your PERSONAL GRIPE list is like 3 weeks behind schedule...

They are working on Mech decals...so settle down...

Urbanmech is a tiny guy and they may have issue with scaling....outside of it not being a very important or valid mech right now. (for CW that is)

CW is on the way, they have implemented the first phase already. So once again you must wait patiently which i know is a virtue but DEATHMATCH mode will not be the only option soon enough. \

The time to kill in this game is still WAAAY above any COD or BF title or alike FPS. I agree id like a small armor buff but at least its all relative to each other currently.

The only OBSOLETE skill is Pinpoint....which IMO should be removed for IMPROVED GYROS so we can ditch that useless module. You are waaaay of base on that one. Speed Tweak is useless? Fast power up useless? You must not have many elite or mastered mechs then.

Gauss charge is fine...plenty of guys still find ways to do 5 kill 1200 dmg games with them

PPC speed only needs a buff for the IS side (6-7%) to bring it in line and balance it with the Clan builds which boast TC4's & TC5's which increase the PPC projectile speeds by 12%(max TC5).

The grind and the High prices are not an issue....sounds like you just want everything for free and them all at the top level for nothing.....if you dont have the time to grind you pay REAL LIFE MONEY for it then. Those are the paths established by ALL Micro transaction and Free 2 play games. MWO more then likely will not be the ones to break that mold.

[pwnface]

KraftySOT, on 17 September 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

You can aim in Battlefield 4 yet every shot you fire wont hit the exact same spot. You aim at the head, you hit the chest, you aim at the chest you hit the wall next to them.

You keep saying this word AIM like its just obligatory in ALL video games that everything is 100% accurate down to a pixel.

You also can't fire multiple weapon systems at the same time in Battlefield 4. In Battlefield 4 there are automatic weapons which cause recoil, which makes sense if you've ever fired an automatic weapon. If you fired multiple weapons at the same moment, recoil should not exist. Using BF4 as an example on how MWO shot spread should work doesn't really make sense unless you believe certain weapons in MWO/BT should be inherently less accurate then others.

[KraftySOT]

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

And I said earlier
if you're such a slave to lore and TT all that is explained with targeting computers and ect.
Convergence timing was altered to help with HSR and hitreg
Somebody already made it clear though
Whats the point of all those RNG rolls f we can aim?
You're attempting to complicate simple aiming with rolls and convoluted mechanics we simply don't need, not to mention you have no idea what effect your ideas would have in the engine or if they're even feasible.
engineering issues are a huge roadblock in this game and you wan to complicate that with unnecessary rolls?
when we can just aim?

and you have a bad habit of jumping to conclusions, you got this guy being a poptart from where exactly?
This entire time you've been pulling pretentious bullshit out of your ass and have tried way too hard to be condescending and jumping to weird conclusions about everybody else's play style and preferences.

They arent complicated:

http://docs.unity3d....cs.Raycast.html

Infact its one of the easiest parts of a shooter.

Scripts for this already exist, for free, for the Crysis engine. Infact its already IN the crysis engine package.

pwnface, on 17 September 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

You also can't fire multiple weapon systems at the same time in Battlefield 4. In Battlefield 4 there are automatic weapons which cause recoil, which makes sense if you've ever fired an automatic weapon. If you fired multiple weapons at the same moment, recoil should not exist. Using BF4 as an example on how MWO shot spread should work doesn't really make sense unless you believe certain weapons in MWO/BT should be inherently less accurate then others.

You also cant traverse a mounted weapon. Look at world war two figher planes. You had to set the covergence manually before flight, by physically moving the gun.

A battlemech is too cramped for all the weapons to be mounted with the ability to converge and in the rules, there are special cases made for mechs that have weapons that can do that.

Weapons that are mounted to something have no recoil really, but also cant traverse unless the mount does. Which they dont in a battlemech no mountin the weapon in a turret, swivel, or on an arm with a lower actuator.

Edited by KraftySOT, 17 September 2014 - 02:21 PM.

[Revis Volek]

I dont poptart and i dont meta....if you want to see what someone who can aim can do come find me in game


EST timezone....

[Zordicron]

Every thread, every discussion about clan nerfs so far has been narrow minded and short sighted to say the least. I have yet to read a nerfherder's post that actually looked at anything as a whole rather then as a single data point vs a not really related data point clan vs IS.

Go ahead and nerf clans until every single clan vs IS event we have is 100% IS victory. Last night, I lost one match and won 4 in my super OP IS Dragon 5N. We are almost there.

And you know what? Even when fireing a single ERML makes a TBR shutdown and have spontaneous ammo explosions and both arms fall off, people are still going to come here and cry about how OP clans are.

[KraftySOT]

DarthRevis, on 17 September 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

Also your PERSONAL GRIPE list is like 3 weeks behind schedule...

They are working on Mech decals...so settle down...

Urbanmech is a tiny guy and they may have issue with scaling....outside of it not being a very important or valid mech right now. (for CW that is)

CW is on the way, they have implemented the first phase already. So once again you must wait patiently which i know is a virtue but DEATHMATCH mode will not be the only option soon enough. \

The time to kill in this game is still WAAAY above any COD or BF title or alike FPS. I agree id like a small armor buff but at least its all relative to each other currently.

The only OBSOLETE skill is Pinpoint....which IMO should be removed for IMPROVED GYROS so we can ditch that useless module. You are waaaay of base on that one. Speed Tweak is useless? Fast power up useless? You must not have many elite or mastered mechs then.

Gauss charge is fine...plenty of guys still find ways to do 5 kill 1200 dmg games with them

PPC speed only needs a buff for the IS side (6-7%) to bring it in line and balance it with the Clan builds which boast TC4's & TC5's which increase the PPC projectile speeds by 12%(max TC5).

The grind and the High prices are not an issue....sounds like you just want everything for free and them all at the top level for nothing.....if you dont have the time to grind you pay REAL LIFE MONEY for it then. Those are the paths established by ALL Micro transaction and Free 2 play games. MWO more then likely will not be the ones to break that mold.

It still doesnt fix the pin pointness of using it without the module. I dont even have access to it yet, and still can build a pop tarter.

This is a problem.

In the BF4 example it doesnt matter if you fire one weapon or multiple weapons, more weapons would just be like firing the FAMAS with a silly high rate of fire...its just MORE innaccurate bullets (not inaccurate persay, but in a grouping)

[KraftySOT]

Its honestly a giant pile of unrealistic crap, even if you arent going for TT, as WELL as being a bad gameplay mechanic, that weapons are so accurate.

How does a medium laser firmly mounted in your torso, "converge" on anything? The entire laser has to actually move. Not just the fore lens, but the entire apparatus. An Autocannon is the same thing...and smooth bores? Those are going to be silly inaccurate. Rifling is why weapons are as accurate as they are and theyre still not THAT accurate. Alot of that is the shooting platform (a human being)

But none of you can deny that in MWO, even at a full run with your arms bouncing all over on the model...youre weapons still hit a pin point perfect target under your reticle...which is maddeningly stupid.

At least some amount of time ala WoT would work better, with a system more like any other FPS on the market would be better.

And thats not my list, cbills imho are fine. The mastering of mechs is stupid...and most of the stuff doesnt even work...but as far as "the grind" goes, I dont really have a problem with that. That has nothing to do with the TT. What PGI wants to reward you for a match is their business, and all the Cbill costs are pretty TT..so im satisfied.