58 replies to this topic

[n r g]

1453 R, on 18 September 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

You scoff, but while you may not care what I can do with it, I'm pretty sure that even House of Lords drop decks will be experimenting with SplatDogs. May not hold up to Timber Wolf Overlords in the final accounting, but even if a Surmbombing Timber-S proves to be superior to a SplatDog, the Dog may well be close enough that taking one for the fifteen ton weight savings in your deck gives you options.

Or, to put it shortly: laugh all you want, but even us worthless game-killing scrubs in Puglandia ye guys all hate so much can recognize ridiculous when we see it.



The one good point in this unfortunately depressing prediction is that Russ really seems against mucking with Clan weapons anymore. I see him as being more likely to wifflebat Paul when Paul decides to do something drastic to Clan SRMs and tell the man "NO WE'RE DOING QUIRKS NOW." The SplatDog may end up with some truly horrific negative quirkage in this instance, enough to take it off the table even because Paul just doesn't do tweaks, but even if it does, at least the SRMs themselves will still be worthwhile on other 'Mechs.

Right? ...right?

[Nik Reaper]

1453 R, on 18 September 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

....

The one good point in this unfortunately depressing prediction is that Russ really seems against mucking with Clan weapons anymore. I see him as being more likely to wifflebat Paul when Paul decides to do something drastic to Clan SRMs and tell the man "NO WE'RE DOING QUIRKS NOW." The SplatDog may end up with some truly horrific negative quirkage in this instance, enough to take it off the table even because Paul just doesn't do tweaks, but even if it does, at least the SRMs themselves will still be worthwhile on other 'Mechs.

Right? ...right?

But than again, who cares if it has a +50% missile cooldown quirck for the 2A side troso pods, all you need is the 1 burst to lose at least 2/3 of the CT armor , and you still have all the lasers unaffected by such a quirck.

The only "bright thing" going for the rest is that the splatdog doesn't have artemis so the splat will be a splat at everything over 100m, but still the launcers will be close to each other so the spread will still not be too bad.

The only precosionary nerf that they could do that wouldn't make it too bad , but still under control would be to make the launchers 4 tube limited, seeing as C-LRM fire a stream anyway , they wouldn't be affected no matter how large a launcher you put in, but the splatdog in that case would need 6x4 + a delayed 6x2 missile launch , so mby a moving or twisting target might survive X) ?

Edited by Nik Reaper, 18 September 2014 - 07:32 PM.

[ApolloKaras]

As soon as someone spots a splat cat, everyone gets giddy and starts frothing at the mouth and wants to shoot the ears. If they balance the loss of a side torso with the clans, people will be equally as giddy to kill that thing at range.

[MasterBLB]

Before exact hitboxes and quirks are known there is not much to say about it.

[Clownwarlord]

Splat Cat a 65ton short range missile monster is similar in dangerousness as a Mad Dog. How you ask? Well 2.3 damage per missile vs 2.0 damage per missile yeah that is right IS has more damage per missile vs clan missiles (only short range missiles, not streak or lrm). I leave it to you guys to be afraid of what you want but a Timber Wolf and Assault mechs in my opinion will always be more dangerous.

[cranect]

With the small STs lets hope it doesnt end up with the same problem of the catapult, dragon, and awesomes which is the amazingly large CT.

[Kmieciu]

clownwarlord, on 18 September 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

Splat Cat a 65ton short range missile monster is similar in dangerousness as a Mad Dog. How you ask? Well 2.3 damage per missile vs 2.0 damage per missile yeah that is right IS has more damage per missile vs clan missiles (only short range missiles, not streak or lrm). I leave it to you guys to be afraid of what you want but a Timber Wolf and Assault mechs in my opinion will always be more dangerous.

IS SRM does 2.15 damage per missile, so get your fact straight.
SRMs are cool and all. IS mechs use them all the time, since they offer the highest close range DPS available.
The thing is, a "laser vomit" Timber Wolf does 58 damage @400 meters, where it is extremely easy to focus fire. SRM6 without Artemis need point blank range to be effective.
If you are playing on a random map, it is always safer to take a LaserWolf.

[Lily from animove]

you can guess the 3 Missile torsi will possibly get a big increase in missile cooldown.


but i wouldn't fear this build much more than a TW already can do.

4 ER PPC and 6 SRM6 runs so hot you won't sustain the firepower much long.

6 splat one click will nearly bring you to heat cap by the ghostheat they do, and the cooling isn't THAT rapid with 17 DHS.

I think the build will more go to 4 CERML + 6 SRMS 6 so you fire the lasors and 2 SRM6's in volleys, which will relatively take the same time as the lasers need to unload. because with arm freedom, you can hold the CT in front of your opponent to make sure missiles hit, while your arms stay on the Opp with the lasers. Not an easy task. but if mastered quite deadly.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 September 2014 - 11:29 PM.

[The Great Unwashed]

I think it will be more of a fun build. The 4ERML/4SRM6A MadCat runs very hot and the 5 tons of ammo are depleted quite quickly. Worse so for the MadDog. Perhaps the 6xSRM4 w/o Artemis with a higher rate of fire, more ammo/DHS works better...

[Lily from animove]

The Great Unwashed, on 19 September 2014 - 12:12 AM, said:

I think it will be more of a fun build. The 4ERML/4SRM6A MadCat runs very hot and the 5 tons of ammo are depleted quite quickly. Worse so for the MadDog. Perhaps the 6xSRM4 w/o Artemis with a higher rate of fire, more ammo/DHS works better...

5 tons of ammo are 1000dmg, that should be enough if you do not constantly spam them into the landscape. And when you don't alpha the SRM racks they don't even run that hot.

[The Great Unwashed]

My SRMs only hit 45.5%

[B0oN]

Mad dog will be yummy, rest assured of that, not even good ol´ Lords of Artistrike can do much about that .

HOW yummy exactly we will see from 23rd September onwards, all else is moot specalation that only serves fearmongering and forum-peen debating contests .

Carry on and carry harder

[Alaric Hasek]

I don't know. I'm still worried about C-LRM 60 and 5 CERML moving at 81kph next to a Loki with ECM.

[Lily from animove]

The Great Unwashed, on 19 September 2014 - 03:15 AM, said:

My SRMs only hit 45.5%

thats still 455 damage IF you really can empty all shots, + you still do damage with the lasers. So 5tons should be enough..

Alaric Hasek, on 19 September 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

I don't know. I'm still worried about C-LRM 60 and 5 CERML moving at 81kph next to a Loki with ECM.

CLRM 10, well it will in a single fire salvo run horribly hot due to ghostheat. So not a good option. And By hitrates, I would probably prefe a 4xlrm10+artemis over a lrm 60 non artemis. This way is more heat efficient and more ammo efficient. And 6x lrm10+artemis should not fit into the mech unfortunately :/ (that would be worth a trollbuild xD)

[DONTOR]

I highly doubt they will nerf armor or structure, that hasnt happened yet to my knowledge and hopefully never will.

[1453 R]

DONTOR, on 19 September 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

I highly doubt they will nerf armor or structure, that hasnt happened yet to my knowledge and hopefully never will.

Stormcrow-Prime's head pod gets a 10% armor effectiveness debuff for having that face-mounted laser hardpoint, and there's all kinds of 'Mechs out there with structural upswings. It's been done both ways before.

As for the rest of all that...

Nobody's underestimating what the Timber Wolf can do. I've been on a week-long murder tear with a GaussLaser Wolf so ridiculously awesome I'm starting to feel like I'm riding its Elo, and I've had plenty of experiments with SRM-heavy variants using the S pods. 6x C-ERML + 4x C-SRM-6 was a thing I tried and it was both glorious and devastating. I honestly have no real doubt that in organized competitive drops, the Timber Wolf will remain the champion, though I do see both the Lollbringer and the SplatDog finding their niches. The Lollbringer solely on the strength of its ECM, but the SplatDog?

A C-SRM-6 spits out twelve damage for four heat, which is a much better exchange rate than the C-ERML's 7 damage for 6 heat. Cycling through the SplatDog's launchers, without triggering ghost heat, nets you 72 damage for 24 heat, which still leaves you room for a couple of lasers in MWO's swollen heat capacity environment. The SplatDog will find niches the same way the Griffin does on the Inner Sphere side - SRMs are still the most potent brawling weapon in the game and one of the best tools available for cleaning up at the end of a match, and the SplatDog can carry an almost unprecedented number of them without sacrificing its lasers, and thus its ability to poke and support during the pokey-snipey phase of the match. I could pack nineteen DHS on there - when the SplatDog is using only its lasers early on for mid-range pokery, it can do so basically for free if its pilot is awake, and in a close-range slugfest, nothing out there can keep up with its raw DPH/S.

A Laser Vomit Timberwolf might be able to beat one in a close fight through superior aim and armor, but even if it does it's not walking away intact afterwards, and frankly I'd back myself in a SplatDog over myself in a Laser Vomit Wolf, or even my GaussLaser Wolf I've been tearing scheiss up with recently, in a 270-meter fight. And this from a guy who plays the Clan side all but exclusively in large part because he enjoys and prefers laser-centric builds. The SplatDog is able to hurl so much damage for so much longer than anything else with that sort of damage potential, I can't see it not finding a purpose.

Of course it could end up with miserable hitboxes or some truly debilitating NegaQuirks that detract enough from its firepower edge to kick it down a tier or two, but I honestly don't see the latter, at least, happening. It certainly will have drawback quirks, but the game has shifted irrevocably towards medium and long-range combat since the days of the original SplatCat. SRM superstorms aren't as polarizing now as they used to be, as evinced by the fact that regular ol' Splatcats are nowhere to be seen anymore. A close combat-centric build like the SplatDog has enough disadvantages as it is in dealing with 'close combat range' starting at 400m without saddling it with crippling negaquirks. Plenty of pilots I know, including myself, can generally get within SRM range of something if they really want to, and SplatDog pilots will be no different, but with the state of the game as stands I don't think Piranha will be so heavy-handed with the negaquirks as to kill the build right off.

And barring hitboxes or fatal negaquirks, it's going to really...

.
..
...
Make a Splash.

Edited by 1453 R, 19 September 2014 - 08:17 AM.

[Quxudica]

Kiiyor, on 17 September 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

It does terrify me, but mainly as a portent of the future.

Scrying into my crystal ball, I see legions of SplatDogs cutting a swathe through... everything. I then see CSRM's being nerfed like the bajeezus to compensate, which will brutalize other builds.

It's just another example of how all the rebalancing and bandaids continue to avoid the real issues of convergence and heat. Until these systems are redesigned, they are going to have a terrible time trying to keep things in line without seriously compromising certain mechs or weapon systems.

[Koniving]

Truth be told, in MW3 and MW2... Mad Dogs were jokes. And there wasnt' any hardpoint limitations to them at all. Load up anything you wanted, everything you wanted.

But then again in MW3 the threshold (maximum heat at any one moment in time) was 30. In Mw2 the maximum heat was 40.

There. 2.4/sec cooling.

Here...
Bare minimum brand new:
Cooling Rate : 2.28 heat/sec
Heat Threshold : 52.8

After elites.

Cooling Rate : 2.62 heat/sec
Heat Threshold : 63.35999999999999

We shouldn't fear the Mad Dog because it's the Mad Dog.
We should fear the Mad Dog because PGI.... but then again it's the same reason we fear any mech in MWO.
....wait... We don't fear any mech in MWO.

I might also add: as a 60 ton mech... the Mad Dog is taller than everything except the missile launchers on the TW.

A giant, walking wall to shoot at.
At least according to the official scale for BT.
Now MWO?
Well Summoner is supposed to be shorter than the TW but is taller.
Just imagine how tall the Mad Dog will be.

Edited by Koniving, 19 September 2014 - 02:19 PM.

[Just wanna play]

"Do not blame the idiot for making the decision, blame yourself for trusting him with that decision."

[Bloodweaver]

Koniving, on 19 September 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

We should fear the Mad Dog because PGI.... but then again it's the same reason we fear any mech in MWO.
....wait... We don't fear any mech in MWO.

Speak for yourself, Kon man. I fear Locusts. Anyone willing to actually take one of those deathtraps into battle must have something up his sleeve (insanity, poison, blackmail material) to make up for it.

Wait a minute... The Locust is my favorite light 'mech to pilot! I... I fear myself..?!