52 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Will they still have a place?

I feel like they will be quite dead mechs.

[Alistair Winter]

Adder is a niche mech which will still have its place due to the fact that it's 35 tons with FF and Endo. It can boat more LRMs, carry more CERPPCs, and carry bigger ballistics than other light mechs.

Nova is already sub-optimal. It won't be any less viable due to the release of the Ice Ferret, but it will certainly be less popular. Still the only Clan medium with jump jets though.

Summoner is going to be a rare sight indeed when the Mad Dog is out for C-bills and MC. Hopefully, PGI comes around and gives it the quirks it needs to be viable. Like 200% jump jet efficiency.

[Jonny Taco]

Russ commented on some clan mechs needing and eventually receiving quirks or some form of pass after the IS quirk pass is done.

Our prayers have certainly not been ignored as I can pretty much guarantee that Russ and the other designers have at least bounced the thought around.

[Alistair Winter]

lartfor, on 18 September 2014 - 02:25 AM, said:

Russ commented on some clan mechs needing and eventually receiving quirks or some form of pass after the IS quirk pass is done.
Our prayers have certainly not been ignored as I can pretty much guarantee that Russ and the other designers have at least bounced the thought around.

I just think PGI sometimes overestimates the significance of minor quirks. I mean, the AWS got some major quirks that really played a big difference (although it's still not quite on par with other assault mechs). But some of the other quirks added recently have been underwhelming. A 10% armour boost on the Centurion shield arm is basically nothing.

[MountainCopper]

The Adder has Endo-Steel over other Clan Mechs, so that's a plus if for nothing else...

Apart from that, the 65t Loki from Wave 2 is very comparable to the 70t Summoner, both having standard structure and even the same speed.

What remains a problem are fixed / locked JumpJets in the Nova and Summoner.
In comparison to other Clan Mechs, where the ability to mount JJs is integrated in interchangeable omnipods (also free choice where to put them between all 3 torso components and both legs), having no Endo-Steel AND 5 fixed JJs hurts these Mechs the most.

[El Bandito]

Summoner will still be the only Clan Heavy with Quad missile arms.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 September 2014 - 02:54 AM.

[STEF_]

Alistair Winter, on 18 September 2014 - 02:22 AM, said:

Summoner is going to be a rare sight indeed when the Mad Dog is out for C-bills and MC. Hopefully, PGI comes around and gives it the quirks it needs to be viable. Like 200% jump jet efficiency.

or removable JJ.

GoldenFleece, on 18 September 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

Apart from that, the 65t Loki from Wave 2 is very comparable to the 70t Summoner, both having standard structure and even the same speed.

Ecm changes everything.

[Empyrus]

Alistair Winter, on 18 September 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

I just think PGI sometimes overestimates the significance of minor quirks. I mean, the AWS got some major quirks that really played a big difference (although it's still not quite on par with other assault mechs). But some of the other quirks added recently have been underwhelming. A 10% armour boost on the Centurion shield arm is basically nothing.

It is better they they add small things first rather than big things, we don't need a quirk set making a mech an undisputedly best at once, that's worrying way to balance things.
Now if they would make new iterations faster...

Stefka Kerensky, on 18 September 2014 - 03:07 AM, said:

or removable JJ.

Don't ******* touch the construction rules.

[RustyBolts]

I have had a lot of success with my adder and sumnor. Nova is a train wreck right now.

[STEF_]

Empyrus, on 18 September 2014 - 03:16 AM, said:

Don't ******* touch the construction rules.

Well, PGI touched them first. Lore says Summoner jumps 150m, not hovercrafts 150m ahead.
Anyway, as badge shows, I'm a pride owner of 3 summoners.
But still, if I want to be competitive I go with my CTFs. Quite painful, being a Kerensky.
I wish to have back my JJ (vertical JJ) and er-ppc speed.
Also lore BT rules don't say that C-ac10/20 spread damages as actually they do in mwo.....

[Empyrus]

Stefka Kerensky, on 18 September 2014 - 04:02 AM, said:

Well, PGI touched them first. Lore says Summoner jumps 150m, not hovercrafts 150m ahead.
Anyway, as badge shows, I'm a pride owner of 3 summoners.
But still, if I want to be competitive I go with my CTFs. Quite painful, being a Kerensky.
I wish to have back my JJ (vertical JJ) and er-ppc speed.
Also lore BT rules don't say that C-ac10/20 spread damages as actually they do in mwo.....

Then buffing the jump jets is the solution, not touching the construction rules.
Besides, tweaking JJ power is not tweaking the construction rules, those two things are quite distinct.

[Lily from animove]

Empyrus, on 18 September 2014 - 04:04 AM, said:

Then buffing the jump jets is the solution, not touching the construction rules.
Besides, tweaking JJ power is not tweaking the construction rules, those two things are quite distinct.

How do these JJ construction rules apply to the kit fox and TW? why are they freed from these rules?

and will some better JJ's really make people to go SMN instead of Loki? I eman loki is basically the summoner with ecm. Well except 4 Missiles in arms, but really, 4 arm missiles are not that much of a big deal to make it a choice over others.

[SaltBeef]

The ADDER is a escort mech and does perfectly in that role this mech has no issues when played in it's role. It is not a jenner style harasser. Nova would benefit from a heat quirk like The Awesome. Summoner desperately is in need of... endo steel or some removable JJ's

Edited by SaltBeef, 18 September 2014 - 04:24 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

GoldenFleece, on 18 September 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

The Adder has Endo-Steel over other Clan Mechs, so that's a plus if for nothing else...

Apart from that, the 65t Loki from Wave 2 is very comparable to the 70t Summoner, both having standard structure and even the same speed.

What remains a problem are fixed / locked JumpJets in the Nova and Summoner.
In comparison to other Clan Mechs, where the ability to mount JJs is integrated in interchangeable omnipods (also free choice where to put them between all 3 torso components and both legs), having no Endo-Steel AND 5 fixed JJs hurts these Mechs the most.

No comparison between the Summoner and Loki. Despite neither having Endo or FF, the Loki has alot more free tonnage 28.5 tons (more than the Timberwolf actually) free verses I think 20.5 tons on the Summoner. Even maxing the armor, the Loki still has 5-6 more tons available for weapons and DHS. Also unlike the Summoner, the Loki has very good hard point options that offer a ton of versatility. Additionally, the Loki isn't burdened by the fixed near useless JJs on the Summoner which is partly why it has so much more tonnage available for weapons. Overall this means a Loki is going to have a significant firepower advantage over the Summoner. Lastly, there is the Loki's ability to mount ECM to consider. Overall I think the Loki is going to be one of the better Clan mechs and may end up rivaling the Timber Wolf in popularity (nerfs will be incoming).

[Empyrus]

Lily from animove, on 18 September 2014 - 04:12 AM, said:

How do these JJ construction rules apply to the kit fox and TW? why are they freed from these rules?

and will some better JJ's really make people to go SMN instead of Loki? I eman loki is basically the summoner with ecm. Well except 4 Missiles in arms, but really, 4 arm missiles are not that much of a big deal to make it a choice over others.

IF you know the construction rules, you know some omnimechs, like the Nova and Summoner have fixed jump jets. They're not omni podded jump jets the Kit Fox has, thus they're not removable.
The Omnimechs in MWO follow the construction rules pretty close already (minus the ability to tweak armor, not a thing i approve), don't make the game any more casual crap. Real people work within limits... and if you really want a better mech, pilot a better mech and shut up about less good mechs, people who like those often like them for their quirkiness, don't go around removing it.
If the less good mechs aren't used at all, then buff them via other means, quirks, additional hardpoints (since the game uses them even though they're not in the tabletop construction rules), additional maneuverability.

[Ph30nix]

the adder to me just isnt worth it if very strict tonnage ever came into play and a team needed more LRM's but only the tonnage for a light then it would have a spot but thats about it.

the Nova before the latest clan nerfs had a good place, in the right hands it was a nice assassin, post nerfs and its pretty much just a liability it cant put out the firepower fast enough now to takeout/cripple a target even from behind (assuming target reacts as quickly as any skilled pilot would) and since its so slow it isnt able to get away from a now pissed off target.

the summer was never a bad mech, it just wasn't the best meta mech for its tonnage its serviceable. But again its just not the best at anything (i will say taking the missle variant and loading it up with either streaks, LRMs or splats can be funny)

[Lily from animove]

Empyrus, on 18 September 2014 - 04:24 AM, said:

IF you know the construction rules, you know some omnimechs, like the Nova and Summoner have fixed jump jets. They're not omni podded jump jets the Kit Fox has, thus they're not removable.
The Omnimechs in MWO follow the construction rules pretty close already (minus the ability to tweak armor, not a thing i approve), don't make the game any more casual crap. Real people work within limits... and if you really want a better mech, pilot a better mech and shut up about less good mechs, people who like those often like them for their quirkiness, don't go around removing it.
If the less good mechs aren't used at all, then buff them via other means, quirks, additional hardpoints (since the game uses them even though they're not in the tabletop construction rules), additional maneuverability.

So balancing mechs amongst each other is making them more casual crab?
Sticking with construction rules while adding totally lore non existent quirks is a better lorelike way?
People who use these mechs don't use them because of the qurkiness, they like them by the visual desing these mechs have or how they are bound to the faction they are in by lore. But hardly anyone chooses these mechs because they want to pilot something gimped. Your logic hardly makes sense at these points and would even less lead to any MWO balance.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 September 2014 - 04:37 AM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Alistair Winter, on 18 September 2014 - 02:22 AM, said:

Nova is already sub-optimal.

.

Wait till I have enough c-bills to buy one.

I shall show you the error of your ways.

[MountainCopper]

Viktor Drake, on 18 September 2014 - 04:24 AM, said:

No comparison between the Summoner and Loki. Despite neither having Endo or FF, the Loki has alot more free tonnage 28.5 tons (more than the Timberwolf actually) free verses I think 20.5 tons on the Summoner.
...
(nerfs will be incoming).

The Summoner has FF and according to my TR 3050, it is 28.5 tons of pod space versus 22.5 tons for the Summoner. Hardpoints seem to be in favour of the Loki...

So yes, the main differences are not having 5 tons locked for JumpJets and ECM. For which nerfs / a re-design might be coming in the future. Maybe... some day.

Edited by GoldenFleece, 18 September 2014 - 05:29 AM.

[Griggio]

El Bandito, on 18 September 2014 - 02:54 AM, said:

Summoner will still be the only Clan Heavy with Quad missile arms.

Ha too bad they're usually the first thing to go boom too lol