268 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

T Decker, on 19 September 2014 - 04:41 AM, said:

The irony here is that the only people complaining about the Timberwolf are the ones too cheap to pre-purchase it. Stop your whining. We all know y'all are going to line up to buy them with C-bills when that option is available. Granted, in a few days, when the Mad Dog comes out, I foresee that being the mech that everyone starts demanding to be NERFed. Just like when the Cataphract came out...or Yen-Lo-Wang...or the DDC Atlas with ECM...etc...

Why don't you just start screaming "PAY TO WIN!" instead?

I say its OP as well and I have one, and that is simply because it is.

and wow, people compare a atlas with a TW now. That alone tells the issue, doesn't it? how can 75t vs 100t even ever be compareable. They shouldn't.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 19 September 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

But isn't the matches dominated by 10 minutes of LRM lobbing back and forth? Or that is simply figments of imagination overblown by baddies?

[Mystere]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 September 2014 - 01:24 AM, said:

If Timber Wolves are so OP, why are they the first mech to disengage when their paint gets chipped?

What dezgra disengages in a Timber Wolf?

[Mystere]

Rad Hanzo, on 19 September 2014 - 02:32 AM, said:

NO

How about trying something other than those classic " I´m a DDC I´m gonna **** ye all" things that too many STILL try to pull off ?
Might raise your chances to kill something that is ~40% quicker than you ...

Oh, another thing .... there is quite a few guys out there that are using DDC´s "good/efficient/viable" ... take a look at them please and stop trying to reason for absolutely unjustified nerfings/buffings because in the end :

ALL YOU "NERF THIS! NERF THAT!" -GUYS WILL HAVE DONE IS THAT EVERY WEAPON IS AN EXACT COPY OF ANOTHER SUCKING THE LIFE OUT OF MECHWAR LEAVING US WITH LESS THAN CS-BETA WAS CLOSE TO 2 DECADES AGO.

Take up the challenge to fight better enemies, FIGHT !

And let me tell you one thing besides that ... I love to kill lights with Direwhales

Tl;Dr ?

OP, level up your game please, it seems inadequate .

[Glythe]

There are 2 heavy mechs that just "might" be able to go toe-to-toe with a Timberwolf if the IS ghost heat rules were removed.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...faaa45aa9aec68a

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c4ef67c11485463

Lily from animove, on 19 September 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

how can 75t vs 100t even ever be compareable. They shouldn't.

That's the point. It shows you just how broken the TW is at this point in the game.

Edited by Glythe, 19 September 2014 - 07:23 AM.

[RetroActive]

I dominated a TW 1v1 in my AC40 Jager during the recent IS vs Clan test. I didn't even take any damage. Peek, BOOM, peek, BOOM, peek, DEAD.

Boom Jager SUPER OP?!?

[Mystere]

Lily from animove, on 19 September 2014 - 03:27 AM, said:

No you can not, with upcoming CW and 3/3/3/3 rules you basically just told me that make clanners have a 3/3/0/6 thats quite a difference in the way it turns out.

Hell, 3/3/3/3 and Elo better not be in CW. I have no desire to let a tyrannical matchmaker determine what force to use in defending my home planet. No siree.

[Mystere]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 September 2014 - 04:44 AM, said:

Please don't Nerf them. I am just starting to get the swing of actually fighting them.

At the rate the Clan nerfs are going, along with the planned IS buffs, I think you will have to switch to the Clan side.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mystere, on 19 September 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

At the rate the Clan nerfs are going, along with the planned IS buffs, I think you will have to switch to the Clan side.

INORITE

Mystere, on 19 September 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

What dezgra disengages in a Timber Wolf?

All of them!

[-Natural Selection-]

I have seen just as many suck in them, as do well. Right now it is the best clan mech, thus gets used the most.

I say if you want to gimp the TW to compare to IS heavies, the unbork the other clan mechs to compare just the same.

Lights need smaller frames and hit boxes and 50% speed increase to compare.
Assault more agility and hitbox size reduction to also compare.

I see the TW as the mech that is the equalizer when it comes to 12IS v 12Clan. You screw this mech, and the rest are going to fall apart.

[n r g]

Glythe, on 19 September 2014 - 12:13 AM, said:

I remember Russ saying at the beginning that they wanted to avoid the mistakes of other Mech games in that each weight class would have pros and cons; there should never be one mech that excels at everything. If that is still a core value for this game then the Timberwolf needs some serious nerfs.

It's fast with a max speed of 89.1 kph, has 460 armor (which is more than the gargoyle), and is easily built with good firepower, max dps and efficient heat dissipation.


Compare the Atlas to the Timberwolf with similar builds.


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0a1292ce4681505

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8d9723320400800



Bear in mind one is an assault and one is a heavy mech. Due to the superiority of clan tech the Timberwolf is a much better all around package with better survivability due to its increased speed and range. It can also get away with using a close up high damage build because it can move in to strike with a flank attack and fade away. The pace of the game has changed and now with more players per team speed is a huge issue. Faster speeds let you avoid more damage and pick more advantageous fights.

You could use something slightly trollish like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...201b67e11af165e

A build like that has high dps with insane heat efficiency and can actually get away with using close range weapons due to its speed. A mech like the Timberwolf that seems to do everything well really starts to break the game at its core. Why play a medium when you can be 10 kph slower with 40% more armor and lots more weapons (and enough heat sinks to actually keep firing them)? I think it's about time we re-visit the maximum engine size for IS medium mechs. The reason you nerfed them in the first place was because people were making them go about as fast as stock lights (with little firepower but lots of avoidance). Guess what mech is doing the same role-breaking at a higher weight class?



Overall it is a symptom of a serious problem when a 75 ton heavy mech performs about as well as a 100 ton assault mech. I think we need to re-consider the double heat sink issue for IS mechs. Everyone wanted 2.0 heat sinks and it is never going to happen; you gave us 1.4 at that was fine until clan mechs came out. I think it's about time we change IS double heat sinks to 1.7 and see where that gets us. Every clan mech has a DHS advantage due to its larger engine and the only way you're going to close the win/loss gap is with some love to the IS mechs. Let me clarify that I'm asking for nerfs to the Timberwolf by proxy as it should stay the same and its enemies should be buffed (which is a nerf from its point of view). The only changes it might need are some hitbox changes. This probably needs to happen to the stormcrow and nova as well.


If I'm wrong and the TW isn't broken then please by all means show me an IS heavy mech build that even remotely comes close in terms of speed/survivability/damage/heat dissipation. You will never make an IS heavy mech that has close to 60 firepower with 90 kph speeds and has good heat dissipation while still having max armor. No IS heavy mech will ever touch the TW because IS mechs don't get 5x double heat sinks in the engine (much less XL 375s) and they don't have 12 possible weapon slots. You know quite honestly we might just need to classify the Timberwolf as an assault mech. That's about the only quirk that's going to put it in line. Note that suddenly the Summoner has a reason to exist if this happens.

If you took the head/center torso/left arm of a CTF-4X and welded that to the remains of an Ilya Muromets you might have something resembling a close match. We'll call this new mech "Magic" because that is what it would take to beat the Timberwolf.

Components:
5 Medium lasers (6.25 damage per second/5 heat per second)
1 SRM 6 (3.23 dps/1 hps)
2 UAC 5 (6.02 dps/1.2 hps)
2 Machine guns (1.6 dps/0 hps)

340 XL engine (because it needs to be about 90 kph)+ 3 DHS

2 tons UAC 5 ammo
1/2 ton MG ammo
1/2 ton SRM ammo


Just for fun let's mount all that on a direwolf (we can't use 18.5 heat sinks so let's use 19). So our Frankenstein would run at 86.6 kph and have something resembling 57 firepower with 34% heat effeciency.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3bfbebf11cae734

what's your point bro

[Ultimax]

El Bandito, on 19 September 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

So all I have to do to roll faces as a Timbie pilot is to hide my legs down the ramp while exposing only my upper torsi? Simple enough.

He was 1v1 in an Atlas vs. a TBR. That generally means brawl range.

The range where you can no longer hide your legs behind stuff.


Unless all you do is hide in the back with LRMs, you can't keep your legs hidden forever.

[Carrie Harder]

Whatever happens to the Mad Cat, please don't let it be knee-jerk "Victor-fication" style agility nerfs. That route was already tried and arguably already failed (comp meta players just use Victors for its straight-line speed and probably because of tonnage limits, elsewhere the mech is one of the least common assault mechs, excluding the trial variant).

Edited by Carrie Harder, 19 September 2014 - 07:51 AM.

[Archon]

I have had no problems killing Timberwolves. All it takes is decent aim and smart play. The Cataphract with 2x Gauss and lasers is a great competitor. I really don't think the answer is a nerf to the mech but rather, instead of all of the "BAWWW TIMBERWOLF KILLED ME IN PUG QUE NERF NERF NERF!" cries, why not buff other mechs? They're already talking about doing this with the Dragonslayer. I say buff the other mechs as well! Why not start with the Orion?

[Glythe]

E N E R G Y, on 19 September 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

what's your point bro

No IS heavy mechs come even remotely close to the Timberwolf. An IS assault mech has about the same firepower as the Timberwolf and it has roughly as much survivability in a brawl due to its speed and armor. It also has about 40 kph faster speed so it can reposition on the map.

No IS heavy mechs (since the ghost heat pre-nerf) are even remotely as competent as the TW. As you must sacrifice a lot of firepower, speed, and/or armor.

The Timberwolf can pretty much ignore ghost heat since it has up to 12 weapon hard points. If you let IS heavy mechs ignore ghost heat then the 36 SRM catapult and the AC40 Jagermech can begin to compete (but only at extreme point blank range.... which they have trouble reaching).

It is by definition the shining example of the mech that breaks the mold and nullifies the existence of IS heavy/assault mechs.


And as Lily said:

When Community warfare rolls out clan mechs basically have 3/3/0/6 while IS mechs are stuck with 3/3/3/3.

Edited by Glythe, 19 September 2014 - 07:59 AM.

[Mystere]

Glythe, on 19 September 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

If the Timberwolf is a "fair and balanced" mech then show me the IS mech that is even close to beating it.

I am finding it quite odd that on a team-on-team game, people are demanding total 1-on-1 balance.

Or maybe I'm just a special snowflake.

[Archon]

Mickey Knoxx, on 19 September 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

I have seen just as many suck in them, as do well. Right now it is the best clan mech, thus gets used the most.

I say if you want to gimp the TW to compare to IS heavies, the unbork the other clan mechs to compare just the same.

Lights need smaller frames and hit boxes and 50% speed increase to compare.
Assault more agility and hitbox size reduction to also compare.

I see the TW as the mech that is the equalizer when it comes to 12IS v 12Clan. You screw this mech, and the rest are going to fall apart.

Exactly. I see the Timberwolf as a baseline of what a good mech should be. Let's use it as an example to buff other mechs rather then nerf the decent mechs into the ground.

[Griggio]

Mystere, on 19 September 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

I am finding it quite odd that on a team-on-team game, people are demanding total 1-on-1 balance.

Or maybe I'm just a special snowflake.

Tyler Durden called. He wanted me to pass along "You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake."

As far as calling for Timberwolf nerf's, how about we let the Dev's do their IS quirk pass first. I can't even imagine how bad posts like this are going to get the first time someone runs into the 2 x Timber, Mad Dog, ECM Loki lance.

[Tombstoner]

Mystere, on 19 September 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Question: What do you call a Timber Wolf as slow as molasses and as agile as a slug?

Answer: Extinct.

Or poisonous.

Because if you don’t know by now you don’t mess with slow moving brightly colored things. They will F you up.

[Glythe]

Mystere, on 19 September 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

I am finding it quite odd that on a team-on-team game, people are demanding total 1-on-1 balance.

I never demanded total 1 on 1 balance. But I'd like the playing field to be remotely level. Let's start with something simple...

How about you build an IS mech with 56 firepower, 71 kph and 370 armor with excellent heat efficiency that weighs 75 tons or less? You'll find those values are pretty much the Timberwolf with a 20% reduction to all stats.
I think it is at least fair to say the Timberwolf should be no more than 20% better than an IS mech of the same weight class.

But you won't find anything that starts to match all of the the TW stats until you go down 25-30% below of what it can easily do.

Edited by Glythe, 19 September 2014 - 08:47 AM.