8 replies to this topic

[Tzion]

I always find it interesting to read complaints that someones team mates were all newbies because they got stomped. The truth though is that according to the stats that PGI sees the MM matches teams pretty well. According to Paul during the most recent IS vs Clans testing the minimum elo difference between the two teams was 40 points and the maximum was 90 points. This is important because everyone likes to say that clan players have more experience at the game than IS pilots. This could be true but I think that at the same time there are just as many people who are bad clan pilots.

Now how can we view that stat. First, we could try to claim that there was only one good player on the entire team and that all of the rest of the players were newbies. The problem with this argument is that means that the other team was still between 40 points or 90 points away from team one. This could mean that they also had only one good player and the rest of the players were newbies. Or its possible that the other team was all middle of the road players. I don't like this argument because it forgets two facts. First, that PGI recently lowered all of the beginners elo scores so they are much lower. Secondly, based on the first point that would mean that for one team to be made up of one good player and all newbies that player would probably have to be on par with some of the top players elo wise and there would have to be a ton of them. I can make that argument because I have been in total stomps and I'm probably in the middle of the ELO field.

I think reality is much closer to this second view. I think it is much more likely that while there are those people who are amazing at the game (top competitive players), the vast majority of players are middle of the road players. If that is true then it is much more likely that when a team gets stomped in PUG play that one side just did a better job of sticking together than the other. My guess is that if the MM was able to keep the clan vs IS matches to 40 to 90 points then the system actually does a good job of keeping normal games to within that range or less. Therefore the team that gets stomped was just full of a bunch of players who thought they knew what should be done and decided to do it themselves. Therefore they got picked off and didn't do a good job.

To be frank, I would say that there is a large group of players who are middle of the road players who do not want to work as a team when playing in the solo queue. So if you want to blame someone for a stomp don't blame the new players who probably aren't in your game (unless of course your elo is so low that the system rates you as being only as good as a new player), but instead blame people who did exactly what you did in that match (didn't play as a team).

[TLBFestus]

You are probably more right than wrong.

[CocoaJin]

You are probably less wrong than right

[Novakaine]

4 shooters, 3 new guys and 5 complete gits.
That's normal ratio per team.
I mean we all go gits at times.
But there's allways that 5 that drive me batty.
I wonder how MM manages to find them all.

Edited by Novakaine, 09 August 2014 - 09:24 PM.

[Tzion]

How can we even make a guess at the total number of new players on a given team? Everyone always assumes that the player running a champion mech is a new player because those are the only mechs available to those players. But that assumption is forgetting that people do buy those mechs. For example the recent buy them all or leave them sale sold a bunch of the champion mechs along with the heroes. Plus I will sometimes drop in a champion to give the mech a try since I don't own it. So just seeing the (c) doesn't mean that player is new.

Also something else I forgot about concerning the recent change to new player elos, they are static for their first 25 matches. Therefore unless you want to think that your elo score is so bad that you are playing still with new players, there is the possibility that that champion mech is being piloted by someone who is roughly around your elo score.

[Sandpit]

you're more right than you know

although

Tzion, on 09 August 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

Also something else I forgot about concerning the recent change to new player elos, they are static for their first 25 matches. Therefore unless you want to think that your elo score is so bad that you are playing still with new players, there is the possibility that that champion mech is being piloted by someone who is roughly around your elo score.

players at match 26 are hardly "veterans" of the game so you can easily still have a lot of new players on your team if you're middle of the road Elo. Most figure abotu 100 matches or so to really be considered a "vet" and understand a lot of the game mechanics, weapon synergies, builds, variants, etc.

[B0oN]

100-250 matches or no veteran status .
No joke.
Divide the herd until that amount of matches, it might bear fruits.

[Tzion]

I completely agree that match 26 players are not necessarily good players but their elo score is still at the same place it was at the end of match 25. The good players elo scores will increase while the bad players elo scores will decrease.

Either way this still means that the guy who just ran off by himself on your team was around your skill level. He is obviously making a poor choice but he is probably roughly as good at the game as you.

I will admit that there are times where I am off by myself trying to do something that could help my team. Of course most of the time my premature death doesn't help but at the time I thought it would.

Also there are a lot of people who do the same things every time they play on a map. For example, as we all know on Alpine Peaks, the team that holds murder hill has a distinct advantage. Of course if only two people are on top of that hill while the rest of the team is located behind the hills over near hill h11 then of course you will die quickly. You need to stay with your team no matter what they might be doing. I played a recent match on Alpine Peaks where almost no combat was done on murder hill. Most of the fight was done over near the back valley that leads to H11. If you were off storming the hill or defending the hill then you were pretty much alone and probably died.

[Tzion]

I have been seeing those lovely comments again saying that newbs are the reason why nerfs to clans are happening. I think this topic needs to be seen again.

To add to it though we should also look at something that PGI did for a long time. There have been tons of complaints about Ghost Heat and they never removed it. Now they are starting to consider making changes but definitely not because a bunch of people whined about the system. Therefore if Ghost Heat was not stripped out due to whining, what makes everyone think that people complaining about clan tech would be the reason why PGI nerfed clan weapons? More likely, they looked at their statistics concerning clan tech and noticed that some changes were needed.