123 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

It's been hard for me to bring myself to play MWO the past 3-4 weeks and I had just activated all my carefully banked premium time from the past two years. But that was for the game MWO was 4 weeks ago. If I had waited a week more the PPC speed nerf would have hit and I would still be waiting. But that's not why I am posting this.

What I don't like about the current gameplay is that it is stagnant and repetitious and is only about AC's and Lasers at 300 meters. Nothing stops this load-out from crossing any map and of course once in range it dominates completely as it was designed to by Battle-Tech balancing. And that's wrong. Not that heavy AC's and lasers dominate close range combat, but that they also dominate long range combat since it no longer exists in MWO.

The PPC is just too slow at 850 MPS to hit past 400 meters on moving targets.

The Gauss Rifle is not a sniper rifle. It is too weak at 15 damage for 15 tons to support a difficult de-sync charge-up mechanic and the proof of this is that players will almost always take 2xGauss or none at all. Well that is not how Battle Tech describes the function or use of the Gauss Rifle and it relegates the Gauss Rifle to the Dire Wolf, Cataphract, Jagermech and K2 only, instead of a weapon that is very common on any ballistic capable mech. Now if PGI wants to add an apocryphal mech sniper rifle at 15 tons and say 24 damage, be my guest, but the Gauss Rifle at just 15 damage for 15 tons is balanced to be a long range accurate ballistic that fires normally! A 6 second recharge like an SSRM6 is all that is needed to force it into long range specialization.

You might not like long range tactical gameplay, but MechWarrior requires it for gameplay depth and tactical development. Without long range as a working option MechWarrior becomes the same arcade match repeated over and over and does not grow the kind of player experiences that bring players back to try something new. Maybe some new tactic they planned on their own or maybe with a team.

Eventually, you learn to pull the trigger as well as you ever will and the game dies. Or you are faced with new tactical challenges each day by each map and you get a true MechWarrior game that grows your imagination and experiences.

Edited by Lightfoot, 19 September 2014 - 09:17 AM.

[El Bandito]

If PPC and Gauss are restored, this game will become the mech version of Counter-Strike. I for one, am not going back to 2013.

Currently there are plenty of Gauss and C/ERLLasers around to keep accurate long range fire as an option. Less PPFLD makes the game last longer and actually let me enjoy the combat better.

Edited by El Bandito, 19 September 2014 - 09:27 AM.

[Lefty Lucy]

All this **** is made up anyways. There's nothing that's less "sim" about not having a gauss charge-up mechanic. IMO it's added flavor to a weapon that used to be the only worthwhile ballistic to take ever.

[Christof Romulus]

Lightfoot, I remember you!

Anyway, here's the deal with the Gauss: The Charge up time does TWO things - very important things:
1. Desynchs it from every weapon in the game - This is INSANELY IMPORTANT because it generates 0 heat and flies very far, and deals 15 points of damage to a single hit location (the second highest natural pinpoint damage in the game).
2. MORE IMPORTANTLY it removes the Gauss Rifle as a serious competitor to the AC 20, and all other ballistic weapons - If the delay is removed, then there is absolutely no reason to ever consider the AC 20, which at SIX TIMES THE HEAT and a far slower projectile, and ONE THIRD THE RANGE only deals 33% more damage.

Back in beta and shortly after, the Gauss was found on any, and everything that could field it - because it outbrawled every other ballistic weapon in the game, and maintained its power over a much farther distance, and could be added to even the most heat intensive builds at no penalty. Why not increase the damage you deal in an alpha by 15 for 1 heat?

As for PPCs, Clan PPCs already can get most of their speed back with targeting computers. But I must agree that the current ERPPC is too slow (inner sphere) to make it even a remote possibility of hitting a moving target at 810m.

[fallenhawk1]

This is my second post to the forum since I joined the game a long time ago. I have to agree about restoring the Guass Rifle to its former glory. I understand it can be easily abused by mechs carrying 2 or more. So a simple compromise would be removing the charging requirement if the mech only has one Guass Rifle. Now the weapon could be useful once again to the med. mechs. Just a thought.

[ApolloKaras]

Christof Romulus, on 19 September 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Lightfoot, I remember you!

Anyway, here's the deal with the Gauss: The Charge up time does TWO things - very important things:
1. Desynchs it from every weapon in the game - This is INSANELY IMPORTANT because it generates 0 heat and flies very far, and deals 15 points of damage to a single hit location (the second highest natural pinpoint damage in the game).
2. MORE IMPORTANTLY it removes the Gauss Rifle as a serious competitor to the AC 20, and all other ballistic weapons - If the delay is removed, then there is absolutely no reason to ever consider the AC 20, which at SIX TIMES THE HEAT and a far slower projectile, and ONE THIRD THE RANGE only deals 33% more damage.

Back in beta and shortly after, the Gauss was found on any, and everything that could field it - because it outbrawled every other ballistic weapon in the game, and maintained its power over a much farther distance, and could be added to even the most heat intensive builds at no penalty. Why not increase the damage you deal in an alpha by 15 for 1 heat?

As for PPCs, Clan PPCs already can get most of their speed back with targeting computers. But I must agree that the current ERPPC is too slow (inner sphere) to make it even a remote possibility of hitting a moving target at 810m.

The Gauss rifle is still extremely good... I'm still seeing it in many matches. Of course it depends on what your goal is for your mech. Are you brawling? Or are you long range fire support. In my eyes its still the best ballistic over 400m. No need to 'restore it'

I have noticed I have shelved my PPC's, in favor of ER ppcs, unless of course I'm boating more than 1.

Edited by Saxie, 19 September 2014 - 09:33 AM.

[Hagoromo Gitsune]

Lightfoot, on 19 September 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

It's been hard for me to bring myself to play MWO the past 3-4 weeks and I had just activated all my carefully banked premium time from the past two years. But that was for the game MWO was 4 weeks ago. If I had waited a week more the PPC speed nerf would have hit and I would still be waiting. But that's not why I am posting this.

What I don't like about the current gameplay is that it is stagnant and repetitious and is only about AC's and Lasers at 300 meters. Nothing stops this load-out from crossing any map and of course once in range it dominates completely as it was designed to by Battle-Tech balancing. And that's wrong. Not that heavy AC's and lasers dominate close range combat, but that they also dominate long range combat since it no longer exists in MWO.

The PPC is just too slow at 850 MPS to hit past 400 meters on moving targets.

The Gauss Rifle is not a sniper rifle. It is too weak at 15 damage for 15 tons to support a difficult de-sync charge-up mechanic and the proof of this is that players will almost always take 2xGauss or none at all. Well that is not how Battle Tech describes the function or use of the Gauss Rifle and it relegates the Gauss Rifle to the Dire Wolf, Cataphract, Jagermech and K2 only, instead of a weapon that is very common on any ballistic capable mech. Now if PGI wants to add an apocryphal mech sniper rifle at 15 tons and say 24 damage, be my guest, but the Gauss Rifle at just 15 damage for 15 tons is balanced to be a long range accurate ballistic that fires normally! A 6 second recharge like an SSRM6 is all that is needed to force it into long range specialization.

You might not like long range tactical gameplay, but MechWarrior requires it for gameplay depth and tactical development. Without long range as a working option MechWarrior becomes the same arcade match repeated over and over and does not grow the kind of player experiences that bring players back to try something new. Maybe some new tactic they planned on their own or maybe with a team.

Eventually, you learn to pull the trigger as well as you ever will and the game dies. Or you are faced with new tactical challenges each day by each map and you get a true MechWarrior game that grows your imagination and experiences.

For PPC I totaly agree with you it's ruined at a moment, about Gauss... well, the mechanics must be rolled back. But gauss is a bit of a sniper-semi. Wait until HG00s comes out.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 19 September 2014 - 03:17 PM.
Unconstructive

[Joseph Mallan]

Improvise, adapt, overcome.


Oh Rah!

[Revis Volek]

Gauss is fine the way it is and very necessary to have the charge mechanic...See below.

Christof Romulus, on 19 September 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Lightfoot, I remember you!

Anyway, here's the deal with the Gauss: The Charge up time does TWO things - very important things:
1. Desynchs it from every weapon in the game - This is INSANELY IMPORTANT because it generates 0 heat and flies very far, and deals 15 points of damage to a single hit location (the second highest natural pinpoint damage in the game).
2. MORE IMPORTANTLY it removes the Gauss Rifle as a serious competitor to the AC 20, and all other ballistic weapons - If the delay is removed, then there is absolutely no reason to ever consider the AC 20, which at SIX TIMES THE HEAT and a far slower projectile, and ONE THIRD THE RANGE only deals 33% more damage.

Back in beta and shortly after, the Gauss was found on any, and everything that could field it - because it outbrawled every other ballistic weapon in the game, and maintained its power over a much farther distance, and could be added to even the most heat intensive builds at no penalty. Why not increase the damage you deal in an alpha by 15 for 1 heat?

As for PPCs, Clan PPCs already can get most of their speed back with targeting computers. But I must agree that the current ERPPC is too slow (inner sphere) to make it even a remote possibility of hitting a moving target at 810m.

I also agree that Clan PPC's need no love, they are fine. They can get a projectile speed boost from the TC's (up to i think 15.80%) in order to make IS PPC's more inline i suggest a 7-8% speed buff on them. Would but them in the middle ground and hopefully allow for use at there max range(660M). But the PPC is not to be a SNIPER weapon and will not be restored to its former glory. PGI has already stated they want it to be a Medium Range weapon.

Edited by DarthRevis, 19 September 2014 - 09:42 AM.

[Mothykins]

The only Rub right now is that Clan ERPPCS have the targeting computer boosts (And five more damage), while IS 'mechs get nothing of the sort. My K2 and Jester weep, and I doubt that the Awesome finds this awesome.

IS Tech is generally different from Clan, but IS PPCs don't have any differences other than sucking more by comparison in every possible way. Every conceivable way. High heat, More tonnage, less damage, and slower overall speed. There is no reason to take them over a Large Laser (Or even a Large Pulse) at this point. They need something, though I'm hard pressed to come up with an answer. The speed nerf was to keep them de-synced from the gauss and to stop it from being the secondary sniper weapon, but as it is the PPC is worthless most of the time compared to everything around it.

(I'd like to suggest the Computer malfunctions you used to cause when you hit with PPCs, but I'm not sure how effective that would actually be. It would be interesting if it disrupted missile locks or the like instead of just ECM.)

(PS, I miss the PPC screech from mw4. Gimme that back? I'd take it as a cockpit item that changes the sound.)

The Gauss though? I run it on My Cent, and despite the fact that I HATE the 'Mech, the Rifle is quite good. Damage totals for the 'mech are low, but it's usually focused damage, which is better anyways.

[Kain Demos]

I can't help but agree because all of my Mechwarrior playing days these have been my favorite weapons:

CERPPC
CGAUSS
CLRM20
CERLL

To be honest I've never even used anything else. I've always taken a shoot accurately and infrequently approach making every shot count and doing my best not to miss. The weapon balance in this game has driven me to use CLRM15s, CERMLs, and CLPLs in a lot of situations.

I understand why they made the changes (even if I don't like them) so I doubt we'll see the return of "real PPCs and Gauss rifles) at this point. They have always been too good in pretty much every game.

Ironically I remember when I first played MW4 online it made me download a patch and one of the notes were "weapons adjusted to remove "optimum" loadouts" and I checked all my builds. Lo and behold I guess all of my builds were "optimum" because ppcs, gauss, lrm20s were all nerfed big time. I uninstalled, reinstalled, and made sure to only ever play the unpatched version. FYI my favorite 'mech was the Dire Wolf with 2 x CGAUSS 1 x CERPPC and 2 x CLRM20. So strong.

Edited by Kain Thul, 19 September 2014 - 10:01 AM.

[Metus regem]

DarthRevis, on 19 September 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

Gauss is fine the way it is and very necessary to have the charge mechanic...See below.



I also agree that Clan PPC's need no love, they are fine. They can get a projectile speed boost from the TC's (up to i think 15.80%) in order to make IS PPC's more inline i suggest a 7-8% speed buff on them.

At the cost of 7 tons and 7 crits we can get that 15% speed back see: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/160514-targeting-computers-and-command-console-feedback/
that's a lot of space and weight in one location for that, and very, very few of them have the space to put that in a torso... and forget putting it in the arms, not with out taking away nearly half of our fire-power because of it.

[n r g]

Lightfoot, on 19 September 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

It's been hard for me to bring myself to play MWO the past 3-4 weeks and I had just activated all my carefully banked premium time from the past two years. But that was for the game MWO was 4 weeks ago. If I had waited a week more the PPC speed nerf would have hit and I would still be waiting. But that's not why I am posting this.

What I don't like about the current gameplay is that it is stagnant and repetitious and is only about AC's and Lasers at 300 meters. Nothing stops this load-out from crossing any map and of course once in range it dominates completely as it was designed to by Battle-Tech balancing. And that's wrong. Not that heavy AC's and lasers dominate close range combat, but that they also dominate long range combat since it no longer exists in MWO.

The PPC is just too slow at 850 MPS to hit past 400 meters on moving targets.

The Gauss Rifle is not a sniper rifle. It is too weak at 15 damage for 15 tons to support a difficult de-sync charge-up mechanic and the proof of this is that players will almost always take 2xGauss or none at all. Well that is not how Battle Tech describes the function or use of the Gauss Rifle and it relegates the Gauss Rifle to the Dire Wolf, Cataphract, Jagermech and K2 only, instead of a weapon that is very common on any ballistic capable mech. Now if PGI wants to add an apocryphal mech sniper rifle at 15 tons and say 24 damage, be my guest, but the Gauss Rifle at just 15 damage for 15 tons is balanced to be a long range accurate ballistic that fires normally! A 6 second recharge like an SSRM6 is all that is needed to force it into long range specialization.

You might not like long range tactical gameplay, but MechWarrior requires it for gameplay depth and tactical development. Without long range as a working option MechWarrior becomes the same arcade match repeated over and over and does not grow the kind of player experiences that bring players back to try something new. Maybe some new tactic they planned on their own or maybe with a team.

Eventually, you learn to pull the trigger as well as you ever will and the game dies. Or you are faced with new tactical challenges each day by each map and you get a true MechWarrior game that grows your imagination and experiences.

They don't have to fully restore it IMO, but I would be happy with some BUFFS on the PPC at minimum, like the velocity coming to atleast 1000m/s^2 or some middle ground

[Revis Volek]

Metus regem, on 19 September 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

At the cost of 7 tons and 7 crits we can get that 15% speed back see: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/160514-targeting-computers-and-command-console-feedback/
that's a lot of space and weight in one location for that, and very, very few of them have the space to put that in a torso... and forget putting it in the arms, not with out taking away nearly half of our fire-power because of it.

Which is why i claimed to boost the IS PPC's by 7-8%. Not all builds can fit the big TC, i never said that and we all know that, But even the smaller ones give the Projectile a boost and i dont have a single build without AT LEAST a TC1 because whats the point.

This is why i claimed to Boost IS PPC's some and then most builds on both the IS and the Clan side would fall somewhere in the middle. Outside the ones made to have that TC, like the Warhawk which would be an exception. And everyone both side would get a nice (kinda) PPC clan just have to build the make it faster. Maybe its a terrible idea but it was something i have been kicking around.

Edited by DarthRevis, 19 September 2014 - 10:18 AM.

[Hagoromo Gitsune]

Lightfoot, on 19 September 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

It's been hard for me to bring myself to play MWO the past 3-4 weeks and I had just activated all my carefully banked premium time from the past two years. But that was for the game MWO was 4 weeks ago. If I had waited a week more the PPC speed nerf would have hit and I would still be waiting. But that's not why I am posting this.

What I don't like about the current gameplay is that it is stagnant and repetitious and is only about AC's and Lasers at 300 meters. Nothing stops this load-out from crossing any map and of course once in range it dominates completely as it was designed to by Battle-Tech balancing. And that's wrong. Not that heavy AC's and lasers dominate close range combat, but that they also dominate long range combat since it no longer exists in MWO.

The PPC is just too slow at 850 MPS to hit past 400 meters on moving targets.

The Gauss Rifle is not a sniper rifle. It is too weak at 15 damage for 15 tons to support a difficult de-sync charge-up mechanic and the proof of this is that players will almost always take 2xGauss or none at all. Well that is not how Battle Tech describes the function or use of the Gauss Rifle and it relegates the Gauss Rifle to the Dire Wolf, Cataphract, Jagermech and K2 only, instead of a weapon that is very common on any ballistic capable mech. Now if PGI wants to add an apocryphal mech sniper rifle at 15 tons and say 24 damage, be my guest, but the Gauss Rifle at just 15 damage for 15 tons is balanced to be a long range accurate ballistic that fires normally! A 6 second recharge like an SSRM6 is all that is needed to force it into long range specialization.

You might not like long range tactical gameplay, but MechWarrior requires it for gameplay depth and tactical development. Without long range as a working option MechWarrior becomes the same arcade match repeated over and over and does not grow the kind of player experiences that bring players back to try something new. Maybe some new tactic they planned on their own or maybe with a team.

Eventually, you learn to pull the trigger as well as you ever will and the game dies. Or you are faced with new tactical challenges each day by each map and you get a true MechWarrior game that grows your imagination and experiences.

Mate, trust me there will be soon loads of "commitee" troll and this thread would be burried alive.

[MountainCopper]

Every match, there are at least 2, 3 or more double Gauss loadouts. And I'm getting really fed up and annoyed by this state of the game.
Another reason why playing Lights is rather pointless. Being legged in one shot isn't exactly increasing the playing experience.

Lightning-fast 30 points of damage which work just as well at 700 meters as it does at 70 meters. Too much of it on the battlefield as it is.

[Pjwned]

Reverting back to gauss rifles and PPCs everywhere wouldn't be better.

[Metus regem]

DarthRevis, on 19 September 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

Which is why i claimed to boost the IS PPC's by 7-8%. Not all builds can fit the big TC, i never said that and we all know that, But even the smaller ones give the Projectile a boost and i dont have a single build without AT LEAST a TC1 because whats the point.

This is why i claimed to Boost IS PPC's some and then most builds on both the IS and the Clan side would fall somewhere in the middle. Outside the ones made to have that TC, like the Warhawk which would be an exception. And everyone both side would get a nice (kinda) PPC clan just have to build the make it faster. Maybe its a terrible idea but it was something i have been kicking around.

That I'm okay with, if it were me, I would've done something more along the lines of what MW3 did with the targeting computers, let them give you the ablity to target loccations, as well as show you where you need to aim to make your shot hit the moving target, or how high you need to aim for the bullet drop.

Now the bigger the TC, the more information it would allow for example, the TC 7 would show what you need to do, to hit a 171kph light with a CERPPC at 600m in the head.

[Cavendish]

Cavale, on 19 September 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:

The only Rub right now is that Clan ERPPCS have the targeting computer boosts (And five more damage), while IS 'mechs get nothing of the sort. My K2 and Jester weep, and I doubt that the Awesome finds this awesome.

Please, can we drop the "CEPPC has 5 more damage!" issue? Its smeared out and lost half of the time depending on where you hit and a LOT of Clan pilots would murder for a 10 damage/10 heat version instead of the monstrosity we are stuck with currently.

The Gauss is, in my opinion, fine. 15 pinpoint insta-damage (usualy 30 since most have 2 gauss if they use the weapon) is quite powerful enough to warrant the charge up time. It is still a common sight on the battlefield, to be honest I dont think Ive seen a public match the last year without at least a 2xGauss build present, so obviously its still useful/powerful.

[AlexEss]

Having run a Gauss on one of my SHawks for a long time i can say it works very well a s a sniper weapon and once you get the rhythm down you can fire from the hip like you where Lucky Luke. Now having had the honour and pleasure of watching a very good gauss user in action through all these changes i can say it needed to be toned down.. Now i am not saying i ddi not like the boom n zoom thing you could do with it before. But if we just had a better UI element to tell us when it was charged i think most people would not even blink an eye.

Not to mention that i am sure a good chunk of the people who picked it up after the charge change would be as annoyed at the change. =)