45 replies to this topic

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

Fallenbourne, on 21 September 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

I love the boars head. Bought it the day it came out. It is a beast. I have tried many variations on the BH. 4 MLas, 2LL, AC20. 4LL with a AC20. No ballistics and went with missile. The list goes on.

Hope you find something that works for you.

I've run a ton of builds too. The problem is that its very situational. I had one build with 3 Large Pulse on one arm and a ERPPC on the other, and I'd use that as a shield arm. Everything was set to chain fire to avoid heat penalties. Before the clans came out it was a good flanker mech, could do around 400-800 damage in a match. but when the TW and DWF were in my face, I found that that particular build was no good.

Tried 4 ELLAS and ERPPCS. not bad but heat was an issue. then recently switched to a build that was like yours. Once again it's situational.. I took it out for one last spin, and ironically got 3 kills and 700 damage.. but it was a lucky match, most games aren't like that..

currently im running it with 2x large pulse lasers on my arm, and 2x, small pulse on the other, an AC20 and an SRM4. Just a weird fun brawler build (which is probably useless, going for a spin now to test it properly).

lots of things work for me on this mech. it's just it feels incredibly underwhelming compared to my DDC.. My "violater" build has a 79.9 firepower rating and if i'm playing well most guys in the brawl will either run away or go down hard. whereas the boards head.. i've yet to make anyone run away in fear from the damage being pumped out.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Maybe remove the Yaw reductions on the Arms and Torso for the Boar's Head. It shouldn't need much more than that.

All Atlas could benefit from an Internal Structure buff as suggested in other threads (and maybe allow a 400 rated engine on any Atlas; going max or near max is a big trade-off anyway, especially if going XL!).

---

And with the AS7-S on the way, I wondered if a Hardpoint tweak could be explored?

I'd like to see the capacity to zombie expanded to include all Atlas variants, so with the Boar's Head, I'd consider adding one Energy Hardpoint to the CT (or even Head).

Here's a table with some ideas for the rest:

Spoiler

I know some would hate changing ECM on the D-DC to the K (I'd be fine with simply removing it), but with fewer offensive weapon hardpoints, and it's cost adding ECM to the K seemed fine to me (I own a D-DC and Boar's Head).

[Russ Bullock]

A full IS quirk pass means all IS mechs - meaning yes it will get some quirks

[Zordicron]

Russ Bullock, on 21 September 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

A full IS quirk pass means all IS mechs - meaning yes it will get some quirks

HAWT

IMA guess....Swami says laser weapons get reduced heat or some such like the Awesome. Hopefully all Atlas get some love for the side torso fragility also. maybe some more then others based on hardpoints even.

Russ you can be such a tease.

[Cyborne Elemental]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...780750df71cead4
Heat or not, I wouldn't want to meet one of these face to face.
Just some trigger discipline and stick to the AC20 up close.

Could probably get off 2 alphas (80 heat ) and severely cripple or kill most mechs in 1 good pass.

And if you seriously XL your Atlas, your comments don't count.

Edited by Mister D, 21 September 2014 - 09:51 PM.

[Black Ivan]

One big problem is the bad heat system in place which greatly favours ballistic and missile weapons. Double heatsinks out of reactor dissipate 1.4 instead the 2.0 heat they should and the dissipation is too slow. Compared with the bad heat treshold management mechs that were viable with energy weapons in TT become second rate or useless in MW:O

That is a big problem in my opinion.

[Glythe]

BaronBastardKiller, on 21 September 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

gotta say, as of late with the changes to the game that the boars head is an underwhelming hero mech, unable to boat properly due to heat.

the XL engine it comes stock with lets it boat and deals with heat, but makes it an easy kill.

Let me stop you right there and say if you're actually using the XL engine in the Atlas then you're doing it wrong. This was maybe a thing back in the day when you could use an XL with ERLLx4. But now clan tech ranges make that type of build obsolete. Ghost heat makes it redundantly bad.

The real problem here is that most IS mechs are extremely handicapped by ghost heat and clan mechs by and large can ignore the problem (due to many weapon slots which prevent the ghost heat and greater heat dissipation when you do trigger it).

What we need is something to fix the mechs that are ruined by ghost heat. Bring back the A1 splatcat please. Let it fire 36x srm 6 with ghost heat and it is suddenly competitive with a timberwolf.

Bring back the DD Jagermech with no ghost heat for double ac/20s and we have another competitor with the Timberwolf.

The RS atlas model needs to be able to fire 4 large lasers to be competitive. The Atlas K is also ruined by not being able to fire 3 at a time, and so are many stalker models (some for lasers some for missiles). The Stalker 3F needs to be able to fire 4 LL and the 5M needs to be able to fire at least 3 LL with no ghost heat. The awesome should be the only mech in the game able to fire 3x PPC with no ghost heat.

This brings forth the meta of Pay to win mechs like Misery. It has ballistics, energy and missiles. Look mah no ghost heat!

Edited by Glythe, 21 September 2014 - 11:29 PM.

[Greenjulius]

I find that the Boar's Head suffers because it's a Boar's Head. It loses a side torso quickly because players want to test whether the pilot was dumb enough to keep the XL400.

The only real success I've had with it has been running it with a STD350 and 6xERLL or 6XLL. Just set up a group for each arm and blast away, ghost heat and all. Just make sure never to fire more than 3 at a time. Also, when things get hot, turn on chainfire for both arms and fire two at a time. The ERLL's melt mechs from great distances away, and they often don't realize how much damage they are taking before it's too late. I had my first 1000+ damage round without artillery in a 6xERLL build. 1160 damage from sitting on the opposite bank in River City Night, blasting anyone who showed their face away from cover. I only had 3 kills, but that damage made me proud.

Edited by Greenjulius, 21 September 2014 - 11:41 PM.

[Greenjulius]

Glythe, on 21 September 2014 - 11:28 PM, said:

The RS atlas model needs to be able to fire 4 large lasers to be competitive. The Atlas K is also ruined by not being able to fire 3 at a time, and so are many stalker models (some for lasers some for missiles). The Stalker 3F needs to be able to fire 4 LL and the 5M needs to be able to fire at least 3 LL with no ghost heat. The awesome should be the only mech in the game able to fire 3x PPC with no ghost heat.

This brings forth the meta of Pay to win mechs like Misery. It has ballistics, energy and missiles. Look mah no ghost heat!

Interestingly enough, one of my best mechs is a Shadowhawk 2K with 3xERLL, a XL315 and the rest DHS. I will open up by firing all the ERLL's at the same time, which the loads of DHS's deal with pretty well. I've got the top 2 ERLL's in one group, and the 3rd in a second so once I'm close to overheating, I can continually fire that 3rd ERLL without overheating. I've gotten several ~1000 and at least two 1000+ rounds with it. A winning or competive round usually averages 450-650, with stomps obviously resulting in less desirable numbers around 3-400. It's kind of like a super Raven 3L without the ECM.

Russ Bullock, on 21 September 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

A full IS quirk pass means all IS mechs - meaning yes it will get some quirks

Very happy to hear this. I was hoping to justify using my BH more. I have non-hero mechs that I average higher C-bills with.

Edited by Greenjulius, 21 September 2014 - 11:43 PM.

[The Basilisk]

I think they made mediocrity a main trait to all hero mechs, didn't they ?
The only two heromechs I know of who don't feel like 2nd or 3rd tier right now are Ilya and Firebrand.
Every single other Heromech is handicapped by its hardpoints or by quirks so awfull you would want to get some refounds. ( I'm looking at you Dragonslayer )

Heres a trollthastic thought:

Bring out a heromech and wait till it has been bought in sufficient numbers. Than nerf all stats and weapons that are incremental to use it properly, then bring out an other heromech and do again.....or bring out clans and nerf all clan gear to a state where its not to be recognized anymore....
I think the only mech where they missed the schedule was the Sparky...PPC nerf came before Sparky.

Edited by The Basilisk, 21 September 2014 - 11:59 PM.

[Reitrix]

mine runs:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...75e5cb2e97c7a8e

And is my most successful Atlas build.

Well, Whenever i can brawl with it ._.

[Duke Nedo]

Buy a Pretty Baby, then you can complain!

[Reitrix]

Duke Nedo, on 22 September 2014 - 12:08 AM, said:

Buy a Pretty Baby, then you can complain!

i did.
I can has complain now?

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

Mister D, on 21 September 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...780750df71cead4
Heat or not, I wouldn't want to meet one of these face to face.
Just some trigger discipline and stick to the AC20 up close.

Could probably get off 2 alphas (80 heat ) and severely cripple or kill most mechs in 1 good pass.

And if you seriously XL your Atlas, your comments don't count.

Lack of ams there makes me not want to pilot it. Currently my newer DDC is the only atlas i have without AMS, and it can be painful if i get narc'd or tagged...

also, once the Ac20 goes (and it will since everyone aims for it), you're kinda screwed.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

Glythe, on 21 September 2014 - 11:28 PM, said:

Let me stop you right there and say if you're actually using the XL engine in the Atlas then you're doing it w..

let me stop you right there.

"doing it wrong"... umm sorry pal, but what you consider right or wrong doesn't affect my choices in playing the game..

I took the XL out. I then put it back in about a month ago... several matches I managed to only lose an arm (yeah I torso twist, funny how that works), and with the XL400 and tons of internal heatsinks was able to lasboat and do around 800 damage.

Of course there were several matches were I lost a side torso quickly and was out and down. and of course in the chat "an xl atlas! lol"

I took the XL out, and am not putting it back in. I put it in to test the heat system and see what I could do If the boars head didn't overheat like crazy.

Believe it or not dude, some of us play for fun... this is a video game.. not an academic research department.

[aniviron]

If they're going to start buffing hero mechs, they should probably start with the Pretty Baby. The BH is... not great, but it's not thaaat bad.

Bishop Steiner, on 21 September 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

Heh. the TROLL'S HEAD

Go in, face tank, NARC stuff and die. Makes it more useful to the team than 90% of Boar's Heads I see on the field.

It's like a bigger charger! I love it.

[ramjb]

The Basilisk, on 21 September 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

I think they made mediocrity a main trait to all hero mechs, didn't they ?
The only two heromechs I know of who don't feel like 2nd or 3rd tier right now are Ilya and Firebrand.

From experiences I've had watching them in action or playing those I have:

-The Arrow is just a beast. I know it well. I own one.

-The Oxide deals huge carnages with a good pilot.

-The Ember...I just hate those things, they're so good. I love mine, though

-The new Griffin one seems very very good,

-The Jester also looks very good.

-Each time I've seen a Heavy Metal I got to hear rock for sure during that game. Usually several times over.

-Everyone says the Dragon Slayer is splendid (don't ask me, haven't seen many in action)

-The Misery is arguably the best non-lurmboating Stalker (I would debate that because for me the 3F torso twist quirck makes it the best, but hey, a Stalker with a ballistic? damn, sounds sexy. probably I'll get one at one point in the future)


So I'd disagree. There are some hero mechs that look terrible, but quite a number of them are great.

If I might add, I also have the YLW and it's AC20 would have a word or two with you about it being "2nd tier". The Centurion AH's introduction soon probably means that it will lose it's uniqueness, though, as I understand it also can carry an AC20.

Edited by ramjb, 22 September 2014 - 01:28 AM.

[Glythe]

The Basilisk, on 21 September 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

I think they made mediocrity a main trait to all hero mechs, didn't they ?
The only two heromechs I know of who don't feel like 2nd or 3rd tier right now are Ilya and Firebrand.
Every single other Heromech is handicapped by its hardpoints.

Misery is the shining example of the hero mechs. It actually got better (unlike most of the stalkers) with the ghost heat nerf.

BaronBastardKiller, on 22 September 2014 - 12:21 AM, said:

"doing it wrong"... umm sorry pal, but what you consider right or wrong doesn't affect my choices in playing the game..

I took the XL out. I then put it back in about a month ago... several matches I managed to only lose an arm (yeah I torso twist, funny how that works), and with the XL400 and tons of internal heatsinks was able to lasboat and do around 800 damage.

Of course there were several matches were I lost a side torso quickly and was out and down. and of course in the chat "an xl atlas! lol"

Believe it or not dude, some of us play for fun... this is a video game.. not an academic research department.

In your main post you basically said this mech sucks! Unless I missed something you didn't specify that you were having trouble and took out the engine.

Ghost heat cripples the platform. Using the XL also cripples the platform (A lot of people made this mistake with the Atlas K).

Some of us like to win when we play video games. I really hate when someone brings a really stupid/gimped mech that wasted a valuable slot (such as a 100 ton XL engine Atlas). Usually a move like that causes a loss in a close match and is really frustrating when you see it happen.

Even removing the ghost heat the XL engine is suicidal considering clan mechs have such good range over IS mechs. But you realized you were doing it wrong and took out the XL. I'm glad you agree with me. If I'm wrong spite me and play with the XL the rest of the career but good luck on that one.

I wasn't trying to be a jerk but I see that's what you took from my post.

Here's the old Atlas RS build that actually worked quite well (you can switch out for ER's but I think you're better off with the large) in case they do fix this guy by making 4 LL not have ghost heat.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c64546523600f58


A lot of people didn't bother with using larger engines on the Atlas but it actually makes aiming with the ballistic mount and torso twisting much easier.

Edited by Glythe, 22 September 2014 - 03:18 AM.

[ACH75]

BoreHead Need:

1) No Ghost Heat for 3 Large/ErLarge

2) Removable Arm Actuators (1 Upper and/or 1 Lower) in order to fit 1 more DHS in each arm sacrificing part of current abundant arm yaw/pitch.

3) 2.0 External DHS or at least 2.0 for the ones fitted in Engine Sockets.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

Glythe, on 22 September 2014 - 03:00 AM, said:

In your main post you basically said this mech sucks! Unless I missed something you didn't specify that you were having trouble and took out the engine.

Ghost heat cripples the platform. Using the XL also cripples the platform (A lot of people made this mistake with the Atlas K).

Some of us like to win when we play video games. I really hate when someone brings a really stupid/gimped mech that wasted a valuable slot (such as a 100 ton XL engine Atlas). Usually a move like that causes a loss in a close match and is really frustrating when you see it happen.

Even removing the ghost heat the XL engine is suicidal considering clan mechs have such good range over IS mechs. But you realized you were doing it wrong and took out the XL. I'm glad you agree with me. If I'm wrong spite me and play with the XL the rest of the career but good luck on that one.

I wasn't trying to be a jerk but I see that's what you took from my post.

Here's the old Atlas RS build that actually worked quite well (you can switch out for ER's but I think you're better off with the large) in case they do fix this guy by making 4 LL not have ghost heat.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c64546523600f58


A lot of people didn't bother with using larger engines on the Atlas but it actually makes aiming with the ballistic mount and torso twisting much easier.

Ugh god..

how about you go and read my first post, i mean ACTUALLY read it. At no point do i say the the boars head sucks... not once. You are the only person in this entire thread who extrapolated that from my post, and was a jerk about it. everyone else here has discussed things without being rude. and this isn't the first time you've done this either...

All I said was the BH is meh at it's role (laserboating) due to design flaws, and it would need quirks to address those. I mention this in this thread since the IS mechs are still getting theirs and thought this would be a good time to voice to the Devs the things the BH would benefit from, as opposed to some generic quirks.

I Took the XL out of the BH after my very first match with it, realizing it made me no easier to kill than most medium mechs.

as for "realized was doing it wrong", dude... there are some top tier players who use a BH with an XL... maybe you should mouth on them for doing it wrong....

you may not be trying to be a jerk, but maybe you're one naturally without trying?