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For Player Government Lets Just Directly Copy Eves Csm.


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#1 XX Sulla XX

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 10:40 AM

OK been seeing the hard time people have had trying to get the player council going. Instead of trying to invent all of this from scratch lets just directly copy the way EVE does it.

For example people have a set time to campain for nine spots and five alternates. After two weeks then you have an election. At this point you can just have a poll since you will know who wants to do the job so will have a smaller list. Then this player government does not by itself have to come up with say ECM fixes but brings in the ideas and manages the player debate etc. And after the players have agreed on something then this is taken to PGI as a suggestion from the community.

Any way it seems to be much better thought out than how we are trying to do it.

https://wiki.eveonli...What_is_the_CSM

https://wiki.eveonli...llar_Management

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 16 September 2014 - 10:44 AM.


#2 XX Sulla XX

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 10:50 AM

Since the opening of Tranquility, EVE players have had an indirect say in how their virtual society is run. While player feedback has been central to the game’s evolution, this enabler relied upon the discretion of CCP to derive generalizations about society issues and player concerns. With the population of EVE exceeding 390.000 individuals, the time has come to empower players with a formal communications channel to directly impact the development of their society. The means of accomplishing this goal will be through the implementation of a modified version of “deliberative representative democracy” in EVE.

Contents
The Scope of the CSM

The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP.
Community Elections for Player Representatives

A council of fourteen player Representatives will be democratically elected by EVE players. The CSM will be headed by Officers; a Chairman, a Vice-Chairman, Secretary, and Vice-Secretary. This group is responsible for managing the operations of the council.
Each Officer will be elected by the council with an internal vote. If there are two candidates for a position, the winner is determined by a simple majority vote; if there are multiple candidates, then multiple ballots are cast, with each ballot eliminating the candidate with the least number of votes. In the event of a tie between any two candidates, the representative who was elected to the CSM with the highest ranking from the election will cast the tie-breaking vote.
Summary of Representative Responsibilities

The CSM is a “flat” organization, and Officers do not have special powers, only additional responsibilities. The responsibilities of the Chairman and Vice-Chairman are to handle official communications between the CSM and CCP, and they are expected to be particularly active in interacting with the community. The responsibilities of the Secretary and Vice-Secretary are related to the production of official CSM publications such as the CSM Summit Minutes. Thus, CSM Officers are expected to be the most active members of the CSM. Alternates are not part of the council structure; fourteen members are elected to the council and if a member, for whatever reason, is unable to serve on the council, it will carry on without a replacement member.
Candidate Eligibility

Anyone who has held an EVE Online account for more than sixty (60) days is eligible to campaign for a representative seat on the CSM, with the following exceptions: employees, volunteers, interns, affiliates, strategic partners, employees of other gaming companies/games and family members of CCP are all ineligible. Elected members of the CSM must maintain their eligibility during their term in order to remain on the council.
Also, players with a serious warning or ban on any account in their possession can be excluded from candidate eligibility. However, in-game behavior or public opinions, regardless of play style, will never be a criterion for candidacy unless the rules of the EULA and/or TOS are violated.
All candidates must verify their identity to CCP before they can officially be acknowledged as a candidate. All candidates must to be 21 years old or older in order to qualify as a candidate and have to hold a valid passport at the date of the candidacy evaluation that allows for international travel and admission to Iceland and participation on the CSM. Because election winners will ultimately make appearances on EVE-TV, EON or other media, candidates must run under their real-life names, and may either create a new character or use an existing account name to give themselves an in-game identity.[color=#fff]

Please note: Icelandic citizens are only required to submit a driver’s license or other valid photo ID. All candidates have to be able to travel to Iceland; CCP will not arrange any permits to enter the country should visa or similar be required.

Warnings for serious EVE-related misconduct might bar the person from running for candidacy.

[/color][/left]
Candidates are expected to be active on the CSM forums and participate in the discussion of topics. They are also expected to adhere to the EULA/TOS and carry themselves in a manner that sets an example for other players to follow. In addition, they must be willing and able to travel to Iceland once during their term for a direct meeting with CCP developers. Transportation to and from Iceland, plus lodging, lunch, and dinner will be provided by CCP. Candidates are responsible for all other expenses incurred during the trip. Elected Representatives are required to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) before commencing their term.
The Election Process

When an election is officially announced, candidates have two full weeks to campaign for player votes using any means at their disposal, provided that they comply with the EULA and TOS.
A player may cast one vote for each personal account with a current “active” status and having been active at least thirty consecutive days in the past. This includes reactivated accounts. All votes are strictly anonymous.
After the polls have closed, an automated system will count the votes and provide a list of the fourteen candidates with the greatest total number of votes received. The nine highest tallies of this group will be elected as Representatives, while the next five highest tallies will be elected as Alternates. Candidate tally placement does not grant any special privileges, as all Representatives — and Alternates when serving in the place of Representatives — have equal power on the CSM.
Term Length and Duration of the CSM

Each player council of Representatives and Alternates lasts for twelve months, beginning one week after the declaration of election winners. Campaigning and open voting for the next Council will begin four or more weeks prior to the expiration of the current CSM’s term. Election winners will be determined before the sitting Council’s term expires.
Topic Presentation and Management by the CSM

Anyone with the right to vote can bring a topic to the attention of the CSM, and comment on any number of existing topics. Moderation rules for posting in the CSM section of the forums are the same as all other boards operated by CCP.
A topic can be anything that a player considers important.

#3 Monkey Lover

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 10:55 AM

"with excess of 390,000 players"

What do we have like 20? :P I see most of you every day :)

Edited by Monkey Lover, 16 September 2014 - 10:55 AM.


#4 XX Sulla XX

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 10:58 AM

Funny but far from true. My bet woud be 40k-80k area.

#5 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 11:01 AM

Well given the ortiginal scope for the CSM was to be a watchdog group to keep CCP from cheating in their own game post the T-20 snafu, we dont have a correlation here for that yet.

#6 XX Sulla XX

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 11:04 AM

Quote

Well given the ortiginal scope for the CSM was to be a watchdog group to keep CCP from cheating in their own game post the T-20 snafu, we dont have a correlation here for that yet.
Well I am suggesting we copy things like the election process and how ideas are submitted etc not all of the goals.

#7 Jonny Taco

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 11:07 AM

First, please don't use the CSM as a positive example... I've been playing eve for 10+ years and the "Race" for csm positions has far more to do with free plane tickets to Iceland than it does with player representation and fair/balanced changes...

Second, "players" in eve are not all "players". The terminology should be accounts as the average account per player is close to 3 in 2014.

Thirdly, my post is semi off topic and surely to be trolled.

#8 XX Sulla XX

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 11:15 AM

Quote

First, please don't use the CSM as a positive example... I've been playing eve for 10+ years and the "Race" for csm positions has far more to do with free plane tickets to Iceland than it does with player representation and fair/balanced changes...

Second, "players" in eve are not all "players". The terminology should be accounts as the average account per player is close to 3 in 2014.

Thirdly, my post is semi off topic and surely to be trolled.
Simple solution would be to only take the parts that work :)

#9 Dark Jackal

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 11:22 AM

For those that don't know what "CSM" is, it's a fancy way of saying The Council of Stellar Management (CSM) being a player-elected managing council from Eve Online. Oh joy!

For MechWarrior Online, seeing as this is not really a management position or government of any sort, I would only like this to be a vetting process for proposals from a handful of sore point items from the community ... that's it. I don't now want folks to go around with management under their names because having something like Eve Online is a tad bit overkill. I'd rather PGI's effort go towards improving the game post IGP than dealing with the drama that comes from Eve's inspiration.

Of course, Eve Online is one of the few games you pay to have a second job, but I would rather steer clear of granting titles and privileges and really just get to the heart of the issue. I am already seeing the phraseology is steering towards unnecessary working like "government" and what not. I'm sorry to say it but I will not be happy if this ends up completely removing my voice and have someone else speak on my behalf. That would be pretty bad for customer service.

Good luck at that point getting pugs to come onto the forum.

:wub:

#10 XX Sulla XX

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 11:31 AM

Quote

For those that don't know what "CSM" is, it's a fancy way of saying The Council of Stellar Management (CSM) being a player-elected managing council from Eve Online. Oh joy!

For MechWarrior Online, seeing as this is not really a management position or government of any sort, I would only like this to be a vetting process for proposals from a handful of sore point items from the community ... that's it. I don't now want folks to go around with management under their names because having something like Eve Online is a tad bit overkill. I'd rather PGI's effort go towards improving the game post IGP than dealing with the drama that comes from Eve's inspiration.

Of course, Eve Online is one of the few games you pay to have a second job, but I would rather steer clear of granting titles and privileges and really just get to the heart of the issue. I am already seeing the phraseology is steering towards unnecessary working like "government" and what not. I'm sorry to say it but I will not be happy if this ends up completely removing my voice and have someone else speak on my behalf. That would be pretty bad for customer service.

Good luck at that point getting pugs to come onto the forum.
Well as I selected in the post before why not take the best parts of it and not the worst parts of it.

#11 Mirkk Defwode

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 11:36 AM

I'm just going to say 'No'

I'm by far not a fan of the concept of a player integrated leadership system as with all politics it leads to people having their own agenda to push rather than being able to properly represent the community. As it's a volunteer position and then direct influence in the title it can be as much a detriment as a boon. You're going to see some folks that are part of the vocal minority rise up and win only to have some shoddy ideas get pushed as the "priority of the community" rather than actual issues.

Being able to reasonably present suggestions and have the community manager respond, or organize the ones they think are valid into a public forum and let us comment on that priority list or even links back to suggestion threads for issues would be a far better method of allowing player interaction. In all honesty that should be part of the community managers job, even it isn't publicly displayed to be looking at these forums and collating the feedback that is ever present, albeit sometimes vulgar/rude/profrain/hostile/offensive as it is into real functional feedback. Constructive feedback organized into coherent thoughts being presented should warrant reasonable conversations over the concerns of the community.

I feel everyone in the community should have an equal voice and their availability to come on here at say it as they will. I don't think some sort of representative group adequately represents everyone's interests in the end.

#12 Dark Jackal

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 11:39 AM

View PostXX Sulla XX, on 16 September 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

Well as I selected in the post before why not take the best parts of it and not the worst parts of it.


None of it is good because it is a self-management enterprise set up by the Eve Online that claims never to have enough development to work on all the issues and needs the player council to target a minority of things then pops out with monocles.

PGI never has stated they lack in the manner Eve Online does as PGI does look at your feedback as it stands right now. If I understand where Russ is going, this is the "Feedback process" with the council, not something beyond that scope.

#13 Aym

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 07:20 PM

View Postlartfor, on 16 September 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

First, please don't use the CSM as a positive example... I've been playing eve for 10+ years and the "Race" for csm positions has far more to do with free plane tickets to Iceland than it does with player representation and fair/balanced changes...

Second, "players" in eve are not all "players". The terminology should be accounts as the average account per player is close to 3 in 2014.

Thirdly, my post is semi off topic and surely to be trolled.

I'd always thought Eve was around 100k players, 3+ accounts on average, keeping the ship afloat.





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