29 replies to this topic

[juxstapo]

(those that know me already cop to this, but it bears repeating), I like these threads to provoke discussion of tactics and philosophy; impressions and experiences... not just "Mine Is Better" smurfy links. There's nothing wrong with smurfy links per se, but just saying "Here, try this [link]"

I am so abashed.

I dug into some of my old novels, then upgraded my clan pack one level to the Daishi.

I mastered Victors when they were OP ballerinas... can't do anything with them since. I'm awful at slow assaults, but there we have it.

What the heck do you do with this thing?

I assume, from encountering them, that they generally are long/medium ranged direct fire turrets, essentially? You certainly don't brawl with anything that turns this ponderously. (I haven't had the nerve to drop in them for a single match, just drove one around in testing grounds).

What is this thing?

[Kain Demos]

I find its best to stay far away. Don't ever go out in a large open area either as you're so slow you are very vulnerable to LRMs.

Make no mistake if you get spotted alone the other side knows how dangerous and slow you are and will swarm you. Also, if you find a good sniper spot and start to inflict good damage get ready for a light or two to start backstabbing you.

[Krostif]

can also use them to ambush crap like take a spot near a route you kno the other team likes to take to flank and let that seismic do work for you then the first thing in sight gets ... well blown up no other word for it nothing can rly stand infront off a dwf and hope to survive especially if you kno they comming
and if they not comming trough flank yourself >D nothing like popping behind some enemy assaults with 4lb10xs or something simular they dont expect a mech that does 54kph to flank eighter

[NeoCodex]

It's really hard to explain. It was the last mech in the pack that I focused on (started just in the last two weeks, after all the nerfs). Surprisingly, it did very well for me, which I did not really expect.

Now, I'm no expert, but I've seen many DW pilots struggling, so here's what I think it's happening. I would say it's one of the mechs that you really need to know what you're getting into before piloting it. Of course, proper build is the first thing that should be set right, and should fit your playstyle, not someone else's. Next, know all the spots on the maps. Even (well, specially) in solo queue, at all times be aware of what your team is doing and what the others are doing. You have to scope out and look at the battle from the grand scale. It's a thinking man's mech. You have to anticipate and think trough all the moves you make in advance, but whatever you decide you still have to do it fast, because it takes time to get there. It's a no rookie friendly mech.

Very rarely it happened to me that "I was left behind" by the team, or got lurmed to death because I was out of position for a few seconds, which I hear happens often to many DW pilots. I'll just say know exactly what you're getting into before you drop with this mech.

Situational awareness is the key component here. You need to know where the enemy is, and be read for the most common pug/group tactics, you need to ask yourself questions as: where does the team ussualy go? Where is the worst spot for me to be? Where would the best spot be? Do I have time to get there? Where is my team going? And so on. You are dependand on your team however, you cannot just pick a spot for yourself and sit there. A lone dire wolf is a dead wolf. So you need to take all that into account when making decisions (position of friendly and allied team), because once you make them you will have to commit and hope it was the right one, and adapt if needed. It's no easy job pilothing this thing, it really is one of those "high risk, high reward" situations in some cases. But not risk as in pulling a leeroy jenkins, no, a lot of risk is involved even in the most simple decisions that don't matter to a light, medium or even a heavy mech sometimes, as of things like which part of the road to take.

I play 2 variants on the DW, one is a gauss sniper the other one is a daka brawler. Both are played differently tough. The sniper is more of an early game build, while the brawler obviously you have to playmore carefully, and possibly surprise your oponent. It's more like playing hide & seek, you really don't want to be noticed in the daka build. Sneak up like a bear would. Tunnels and other well bunkered places are ideal spots for the brawler whales to hang out. More often it's your best bet to wait for the enemy to come and peek into the tunnel, just to face their quick death moments later. Patience is the key. Once you're in a close fight, there isn't really anything that can stand up to you. But of course, it's certainly not a mech for the less expierenced, I would say you should know the rules and practices of both game and pug play in and out before attempting to get into it.

So far it was a steady record breaker and certainly performs well if played right. I was just sitting in the tunnel at the start of the game, with Nova and Kit fox backing me up (kudos to them boys for sticking with me). We started at the lower side and waited near their end of the tunnel. Luckily my lancemates were smart and enough not to poke out, but we gave some serious beating to whomever decided that it was a good idea to "check out the tunnel". After that we came out and cleaned up three more mechs, also sneaked up behind a poor Awesome lrm boat that was firing towards the rest of our team on our side of the map. Poor sucker tried to torso twist the hell I was unleashing on him, but he got ripped to shreds in seconds. I could literally feel his terror when he was walking backwards trying to fend off a near full heath dire whale with his medium lasers. It was pretty much end game after that.

Edited by NeoCodex, 17 September 2014 - 04:41 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

juxstapo, on 16 September 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

What is this thing?

Basically a turret.

[NeoCodex]

PhoenixFire55, on 17 September 2014 - 04:20 AM, said:

Basically a turret.

More like a fortress. With legs attached to it.

Edited by NeoCodex, 17 September 2014 - 04:24 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

Big ass turret is a good way to put it. Area denial. Poor at leading a push but fantastic when it's an anchor for a group and able to lay down firepower. Big hitboxes and terrible torso turn lends it poor defense but hardpoints, tonnage, and clan weapons give it solid offense.

You want ranged weaponry because it's a poor close-in fighter. I've found SSRMs and UltraAC20s to be a poor use of the chassis.

Generally there are two breeds of Dire Wolf:

• Dual Gauss/Multi PPC: lower DPS, maximum pinpoint
  
• 4-6 Ultra AC5 backed by ERML or ERSM: precise number of guns vary but the plan is the same, a nearly constant stream of UAC5 dakka with some lasers

Those are the ones that seem to rack up the most kills, of course I've also been killed by ones with stacked ERLL that can saw you in half from almost a kilometer away but the beam time is pretty long and they are hot when fired in multiples. Lots of other suboptimal fun builds if you like ballistics (still plan to try 4 LBX10s but haven't gotten around to it yet)

Edited by Redshift2k5, 17 September 2014 - 04:40 AM.

[NeoCodex]

For a good brawler, if talking builds, a combination of some short and long range lasers with UAC5 and even some LBX fired in multiple chain streams can be very efficient (LBX are a more reliable crit finisher than a jamming UAC can be). The key is in managing the heat, so taking a balanced ammount of both energy and ballistic weapons is a good idea. My favorite chassis is actually DWF-B, with that nice energy slot in the CT, which serves both as a ranged poking tool and as my target indicator for the ballistics, making sure they won't be hitting the ground. 4 smalls on the arms is enough, to help dish out some extra dps in a brawl while not going too hot with the mediums (you do want to pound them with ballistics instead for that shake) and deal with those lights faster.

[Lily from animove]

wihtout speed and turn tweaks you are basically a turrent. Not much room in agility for popping. With the tweaks, this changes to a good bunch. So skilsl on the mech are definately making a difference.

but it is still a heavy weapon platform on two legs. Anythign that stares at you below 700m is getting serious troubles.

but basically it is any AC's except AC 2 or gauss + some lasers = awesomely hard to fail with.
I also run a 8 CMPL variant tc7 + DHS +AMS which feels like driving a laser scalpell. with both MPL modules this is: WOAH

And I still need to test the 4LBX 10 version and the 5 LBX 5 version. Actually, it requires not that much skills, any kind of AC weapon cna be slapped on it and spammed at the opponent.

Edited by Lily from animove, 17 September 2014 - 04:55 AM.

[The Great Unwashed]

Lily from animove, on 17 September 2014 - 04:49 AM, said:

I also run a 8 CMPL variant tc7 + DHS +AMS which feels like driving a laser scalpell. with both MPL modules

That's actually something the Warhawk should be able to do... except it can't...

[AntleredCormorant]

Apologies to those who don't run them this way, but..

I don't use clan mechs, but from what I've seen online the philosophy goes something like:


Let the rest of your team engage the enemy. Close in behind whoever is taking the most fire so they can't back up. Use them as cover. Fire your uber weapons loadout over/around and, sometimes, through the friendly. If it's a light/medium mech that can manuever well you may not be able to use them for cover as easily. In this case your best bet is to actually shove them forward so they can absorb any return fire.

By no means should you use your mech to:

1. Lead an assault (it's only a weight class after all!)
2. Provide cover for more vulnerable friendly mechs
3. Draw fire towards your more heavily-armored mech
4. Commit to a fight before the rest of your team has softened up the opponent

[Jon Gotham]

In the rare situations where you can get into combat that favours it, it is walking death.
But most of the time, vs anyone that has an IQ above 75 you will struggle to get into that situation. It is good at long to mid staredowns basically. Or when your target is not aware of you. Anything faster than you will most of the time eat you alive.
I use triple gauss for long range support or an lrm40+twin gauss to do the same. The most effective kill build was quad lbx 10 oddly....
But then I treated it like a vulture, move in after first engagement. It's the one clan mech I'm not concerned about honestly, as it's so inflexible, and so very slooooow....

[Redshift2k5]

AntleredCormorant, on 17 September 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

Apologies to those who don't run them this way, but..

I don't use clan mechs, but from what I've seen online the philosophy goes something like:


Let the rest of your team engage the enemy. Close in behind whoever is taking the most fire so they can't back up. Use them as cover. Fire your uber weapons loadout over/around and, sometimes, through the friendly. If it's a light/medium mech that can manuever well you may not be able to use them for cover as easily. In this case your best bet is to actually shove them forward so they can absorb any return fire.

By no means should you use your mech to:

1. Lead an assault (it's only a weight class after all!)
2. Provide cover for more vulnerable friendly mechs
3. Draw fire towards your more heavily-armored mech
4. Commit to a fight before the rest of your team has softened up the opponent

Yes, make sure you walk out into enemy fire with the least mobile mech on your team, that way if he comes under fire he can wallow around and get blown up while every faster mech gets back into cover.

[Wraithlord77]

I love my DWF's but they are a little hard to get use to and fitting for long range is the simplest way of earning with them , but if you want to try for shorter range fun try lbx 10 / 20 with mediums and Lpulse's, but i wouldnt call it a brawler no matter how you fit it it is still a support mech with cover being yer best mate and as others have said NEVER lead the charge . Think of yer whale as the teams cleaner, when the others have done the dirty work only then do you move in and clean up whats left on the battlefeild while still move'n from cover to cover allway looking for some thing to plant yer back against becouse those dam lights can always peck and bite your back .

[Lily from animove]

The Great Unwashed, on 17 September 2014 - 04:56 AM, said:

That's actually something the Warhawk should be able to do... except it can't...

This, I have not used the warhawk yet. While the DW in said config has a lot of unused tonnage, the warhawk does not have enough E points for such a loadout to be punchy. And its quite restricted in possible cooling compared to the DW. And WH can not even laod a TC7 in the torso so range also suffers. And both, only 5 Energywepaons with tc6 is crap. Actually I guess I never use my Warhawk. I hate the hardpoints, I hate the way you can build it. I hate how I always have to leave something out I would like to have. I always have the feeling ot forces me too much to make builds I don't wanna drive. I always will leave it in the mechbay. At leats the roof is a great Party platform.

[Bhelogan]

Really, the Direwhale has one function in my opinion
Take the lead in charges. When you see something, you have to kill it fast. Anything gets behind you, and your screwed, especially if your solo dropping and you don't' have lance mates to watch your back. Really, you have the firepower to go where you want and impose your will. But if you take your time doing it once you get there, your screwed.

I like the Dual-Gauss, ERPPC, 2xLPL build. It's good at dropping everything EXCEPT the multi-AC build Direwhales. The Multi-AC direwhales just don't seem to drop all the other mechs as fast as this build.

[Lily from animove]

Wraithlord77, on 17 September 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

I love my DWF's but they are a little hard to get use to and fitting for long range is the simplest way of earning with them , but if you want to try for shorter range fun try lbx 10 / 20 with mediums and Lpulse's, but i wouldnt call it a brawler no matter how you fit it it is still a support mech with cover being yer best mate and as others have said NEVER lead the charge . Think of yer whale as the teams cleaner, when the others have done the dirty work only then do you move in and clean up whats left on the battlefeild while still move'n from cover to cover allway looking for some thing to plant yer back against becouse those dam lights can always peck and bite your back .

actually this

Bhelogan, on 17 September 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

Really, the Direwhale has one function in my opinion
Take the lead in charges. When you see something, you have to kill it fast. Anything gets behind you, and your screwed, especially if your solo dropping and you don't' have lance mates to watch your back. Really, you have the firepower to go where you want and impose your will. But if you take your time doing it once you get there, your screwed.

I like the Dual-Gauss, ERPPC, 2xLPL build. It's good at dropping everything EXCEPT the multi-AC build Direwhales. The Multi-AC direwhales just don't seem to drop all the other mechs as fast as this build.

If the direwold doesn't charges who should? The easy to hit light clanners hwo unlike IS lights can no dodge Fire? The paper mediums? or the heavies, which would efficiently only be the TW, since the Summoner is quite inferior too.

No, its the Direwhale who should go around the corner catching the attention. But unlike used to start firing, it should twist his ass off first to block the first incoming damage, otherwise your fishhead is ripped apart too fast.
In Pugland when others do not understand the concept of charging, you unfortunately die a lone death a lot of times, because they do not push together with the Direwolf and retret when the first lasers is crossing their chassis. That is mostly the moment when the PUG starst to fail.

Edited by Lily from animove, 17 September 2014 - 05:32 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Redshift2k5, on 17 September 2014 - 05:09 AM, said:

Yes, make sure you walk out into enemy fire with the least mobile mech on your team, that way if he comes under fire he can wallow around and get blown up while every faster mech gets back into cover.

What them faster mechs should be doing sir, is backing up that Whale-not running for cover when they see an enemy mech. Sadly this is exactly what happens most of the time....

"OH NOES!!!!! I COULD GET SHOTTTTT!!!!!! I had better run!!!!!"

[Bhelogan]

Lily from animove, on 17 September 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

But unlike used to start firing, it should twist his ass off first to block the first incoming damage, otherwise your fishhead is ripped apart too fast.

I disagree, shoot first, then torso-twist. You will have less damage to spread out if you have killed, or half blown off at least one of the attackers, and you should be able to get the first shot off if your taking the offensive.

Edited by Bhelogan, 17 September 2014 - 07:44 AM.

[Escef]

Bhelogan, on 17 September 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

Really, the Direwhale has one function in my opinion
Take the lead in charges.

That... would have to be one of the slowest charges in the history of mechanized warfare.