223 replies to this topic

[Griggio]

Love the design, but Bishop brought up some of the same exact things that threw me off like the shorter arm pods and how upright it feels. I can live with the fat legs, but from the side the angle seems a bit wide, giving it almost a stretched out feel from the side profile.

All in all I love my Mad Dog, but I'm going to love my Loki more

[mongo2006]

Bishop if you really don't like the rendition of the Mad Dog then open up Maya, 3DMax, or whatever modeling program you want to use and make a better one. Send it to PGI and tell them to let us have it free of charge so we can see your awesome talents roam the battlefield it's just that simple. I know how hard it is to model something and get 100% of people to like it.. it ain't easy if not even possible.

Until then go back the the Nerf The Timber Wolf threads......... DROPS THE MIKE.....

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 24 September 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

I'd go so far as to say MW 4, didn't.

http://youtu.be/X0UNaFuZFNg?t=2m58s
looks pretty good to me.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 September 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

http://youtu.be/X0UNaFuZFNg?t=2m58s
looks pretty good to me.

Intro yes, game play not so much...

I think MW3 actually had a bit of bob with the Mad Dog during game play through...

[Bishop Steiner]

Edustaja, on 24 September 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

Deal

sweet. time for a beer and some more mad dog grindage. Definitely hoping they can be a little more brawly when unlocked. ATM I ddefinitelyprefer it as a support platform, but hope to use it in several ways.

[Hastur Azargo]

I agree that at the very least lasers need to be as long as in the Alex's design, otherwise the Doge severely lacks recognizability, and looks simply "meh". Hope PGI comes back to this some day, but we're still waiting for things like accurate weapon display on 'Phracts, Dragons, Awesomes, Cents etc etc, so perhaps it will be a long time coming.

[Griggio]

Metus regem, on 24 September 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

The funny thing is, Harmony Gold, never actually had the rights to those mechs. It was proven a few years back in the Japanese courts, HG bought the shows that they butchered and duct tapped together to make Robotech from a company that only had distribution rights to Japan, that company sold the rights that they never had to HG. If HG wanted them, then the should have gotten them from Studio Nu or Big West, the companies that created the Macross franchise. When HG got into a tussle with Studio Nu and Manga Entertainment about Macross Plus, they (HG) got raked over the coals about it in the Japanese court system, it's also why they've been so silent till the last round of the Mechwarrior 5 trailer.

So in short HG, is blowing smoke with no fire to back it about the mech designs, but no-one feels like taking them head on about the rights, or going to Studio Nu or Big West to get the rights.

Even if Tatsunako didn't have legal ownership of the designs to sell, in late 1990's and early 2000's HG filed copyright, trademark, and licensing claims on all things Robotech in the US. If they did try to fight this in the U.S. it would be a very long and very expensive venture and not worth the financial risk.

[Yelland]

Art critics and knowing what they like.

I prefer the MWO Mad Dog to the older designs, but eh what do I know.

The laser choices make sense in the MWO world as they match the other clan styles. Not that there would have been anything wrong with making adjustments and having something unique in that area.

The MWO Mad Dog is a right nice heavy regardless of aesthetic decisions.

[Zeus Mantium]

I like the legs, but the arms are short.

[Clint Steel]

I just suggested a fix to the ravens lasers, the same thing could help a little here too.

http://mwomercs.com/...asers-on-raven/

[SaltBeef]

I do miss the leg separation at the joint the older mechs used to have until MW4 changed it.

[Flyby215]

Gotta be honest; the more I read this thread the more I tend to agree with Bishop. Some of those Mad Dog models look gorgeous compared to the Mad Dog we have in MWO.

I would like to raise a point that I haven't read yet (or maybe just glazed over a bit) but when we look at mechs in, say, Steel Battalion or Hawken, you get the impression that "ya, that can take a hit". Compare that to MW2 versions of the Mad Dog or Marauder with flimsy looking arms and legs; then look at MWO's beefier aspects, and one can quickly assume "that's better because it looks like it's more armoured".

But then, where's the artistic flare? We want to be taken out of our world and into the Battletech universe, where there is solid differentiation between Mechwarrior and just another stompy robot game.

I think Star Wars did this very well in the creation of their AT-AT walkers; from a physics and future technological standpoint those walkers are a 'terribad' design; but truly iconic and memorable when compared to the walkers we saw in the prequels then quickly forgot about.

Edited by Flyby215, 24 September 2014 - 02:50 PM.

[beerandasmoke]

I dont really care about the minor cosmetics. What matters is how the mech plays to me. I like it because i can shoot lots of missles at people and make them really mad. "Well errr.... the legs need to be cocked back some more to make it look realistic." Yes, a mech that looks like its taking a #$%^ when its standing still would go over well with avg MWO player who isnt steeped in lore. I say good call on the no poop mech art team.

[InspectorG]

You guys have to remember about artistic interpretation. The artist, or artists under direction, want to make it look good in their own style, not a rehash from the '90's.

I think it looks fine and fits the 'look' well with the other clan mechs.

There are some 'functional' problems but, in a fictional game set in a fictional universe...who cares?

I like the style. Its neither too western nor too anime. And WAY better than the original BT illustrations. Originals looked like they had some intern at an architecture firm.

Only real beef i have is scale. I feel lights should be about half size of assaults. A 'ton' of weight for a mech doesnt have to be a standard/metric 'ton'.

[Wolfways]

General Taskeen, on 24 September 2014 - 06:21 AM, said:

The New Mad Dog looks bad. And that's all that really needs to be said.

This is what it should look like in a modern game:



That's from Assault Tech (by MekTek). Smooth, rounded edges, No LEGO blocks, proper classic look all the way back from MW2,

That pic has been my desktop wallpaper for a long time

[Thunder Lips Express]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 September 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

Are your lasers for military application?

For them to be 6.5 tons difference and the same size implies a lot of dead space in the .5 ton one. Miltary weapons are only as large as needed. I don't claim to be a laser engineer, so IDK exactly what comprises the weight, but you are talking over 600% increase in mass.


been trying to find one (affordably) for years. I had the summoner, and meant to get the Mad Dog... never happened.

mine was mising the missiles so i had to make my own but it worked out alright i tried getting the summoner and the timber but never at a price range i could reasonably convince myself of spending.

[Flying Blind]

Come on man, 12.5% is way too much. anything more than 11.87% would totally skew the look of the mech. in fact while I'm at it lets ask them to go back and 're-size every mech in the game by 0.694% it can't be that hard after all and it is exactly the sort of thing they need to keep them busy enough to clock in a full day of work every day.

I can't believe you a complaining about 12.5%. I think the mech looks really good and I don't want another hour of development time spent on it.

but on the positive side, I have now gotten my daily requirement of absurdity nicely filled out.

[Bishop Steiner]

Flying Blind, on 24 September 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

Come on man, 12.5% is way too much. anything more than 11.87% would totally skew the look of the mech. in fact while I'm at it lets ask them to go back and 're-size every mech in the game by 0.694% it can't be that hard after all and it is exactly the sort of thing they need to keep them busy enough to clock in a full day of work every day.

I can't believe you a complaining about 12.5%. I think the mech looks really good and I don't want another hour of development time spent on it.

but on the positive side, I have now gotten my daily requirement of absurdity nicely filled out.

by reading your own post?

Mine lists numbers because *GASP* I actually went in and resized the bloody thing until it looked right.

[Verdic Mckenna]

Look I know a ton of you guys - and you know me a bit. I'm a huge Mechwarrior/Battletech Clan fanner. But... I gotta say. Dang, Steiner, I think you need to switch to decaf.

Also - to be constructive: I love the new design, it doesn't offend me - even after 20 years of Battletech. Love the work, love the game, hate how slow the development cycles are. That sums it up.

Bishop Steiner, on 24 September 2014 - 05:08 AM, said:

So. Mad Dog was pre-released for those who doubled up on the Clan Maxi-Packs. Totally unsolicited, and unnecessary little perk PGI put out there. So thanks for that. It will be available to the masses for MC in December, Cbills in January.

So considering the way in which we have gotten it, being heavily critical of the design may seem highly ungrateful. But, there is just so many things, that have gone so wrong, in the in game model, both from the original design, and Alex's gorgeous re-imagining.

Let us begin:


The Vulture- One of the most visually arresting designs in the classic Battletech game.



Several design elements of note:
Slender, but tall profile. Long/Deep torso
Long arm weapons barrels
Deeply flexed, ostrich legs.
Shoulders far behind hips.

The issues:
1) The deep but slender profile was changed to a much stubbier version. This is actually understandable, and much more survivable, fro side shots, than the original, much as the way the bullet snout of the Timber Wolf was reined in.

2) Long weapon arms? Nope. Stubby as heck. PGI modelers have done a lot of things right in this game, but the dynamic weapons are very hit and miss. In this instance, even using the generic "box" lasers, they are at the least, 2-3 times too short in barrel length. The PPC also could use a boost. This also largely points out the ludicrous nature of using the same little barrel for a .5 ton Small Laser and a 7 Ton Large Pulse Laser.

3) The Legs. IMO, the biggest deal breaker. 12-15 too large in general, and certainly 10% too thick in the thighs. I get that they followed the lore premise of re-using the legs from the Timberwolf (though even on the Timby they are borderline too thick). No, for me, the biggest issue is the posture. Far too erect and upright. Look at the original design, and it is deeply flexed, dynamic, looking ready to spring into motion. This one might actually be pretty easy to fix. Even if they simply re-rig the legs to a deeper bow, it would do wonders for the look, and perceived size, of the mech. Hardest part would probably be re-doing the walking animation.

4) The Shoulder placement. It is behind the hips. Perhaps, visually it would look nicer, further back, but with the changes made for viability, it would also probably expose the side torso to easier shots. So IMO; it's livable.

TR;DR:
Russ, not to sound ungrateful, but is there any way to have the weapon barrels looked into and given more of the flavor of the mech? And while a rescaling of the legs by 12.5% would be preferred, would it be too difficult to have the legs re-rigged (and walk re-done) to give the "proper" bowed look and gait to the Mad Dog?

Edited by Verdic Mckenna, 25 September 2014 - 05:10 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Verdic Mckenna, on 25 September 2014 - 05:08 AM, said:

Look I know a ton of you guys - and you know me a bit. I'm a huge Mechwarrior/Battletech Clan fanner. But... I gotta say. Dang, Steiner, I think you need to switch to decaf.

Also - to be constructive: I love the new design, it doesn't offend me - even after 20 years of Battletech. Love the work, love the game, hate how slow the development cycles are. That sums it up.

what's overcaffeinated? I critiqued the design?