22 replies to this topic

[KursedVixen]

I just have to make a personal request to get a firemoth in the future that's it.

[Carrie Harder]

I'd rather have Clan lights that have a better shot at being somewhat useful. 20 tons is quite literally the worst tonnage to be at in the Battletech construction system for a multitude of reasons. The Moth would just run really really fast for a few seconds, and then promptly die when it gets hit by a Locust farting in its direction. Or it would just instantly leg itself from internal leg damage that Paul said MASC will give when it eventually appears in-game.

[Lucky Moniker]

20 tons is terribad for IS, but for clans where you can pack much more weapon per ton, it is a different story. also 216 kph is nothing to laugh at

[KursedVixen]

216 is only with masc though XD it runs 162 without. You also need to consider that Clan armor is generally better than innersphere armor. I'm confidant that the firemoth would compete evenly with a locust.

Edited by KursedVixen, 29 August 2014 - 10:01 PM.

[Damien Tokala]

You're gonna rear end someone and you'll be like a moth on my bug guard

[FDJustin]

Lucky Moniker, on 29 August 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

20 tons is terribad for IS, but for clans where you can pack much more weapon per ton, it is a different story. also 216 kph is nothing to laugh at

Until it runs 216 kph off a cliff and TK's someone with it's landing. Then you have something to laugh at.

So is that 162 without speed tweak? Because if so... 178.2 kph.

I agree though. It would be a tiny 20 ton cruise missile. Assuming it has the hardpoints for high damage output.

[Carrie Harder]

Lucky Moniker, on 29 August 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

20 tons is terribad for IS, but for clans where you can pack much more weapon per ton, it is a different story. also 216 kph is nothing to laugh at

You'll only go 216 for a short time, and then you'll have to turn MASC off or you'll get legged from internal leg damage. Also, 20 tons is still bad for any faction. A 25 ton Clan light built to same/similar specs as the Moth would be superior. A 30 ton one would also be superior. A 35 ton one wouldn't get as fast, but would still reach the optimal speeds for lights in MWO and easily roflstomp the 20 ton Moth.

20 tons is simply never advantageous, ever. They have proportionally lower leg internal HP than any other lights. They have proportionally lower leg armor than any other lights. They have the least tonnage for weaponry. And, their smaller engines means more external sinks which means less cooling (thanks to 1.4 poordubs) and less critspace for packing stuff in (which I guess doesn't bother Clans as much because of their smaller items, but it's still inferior to larger engines).

---

About leg armor and leg internals:

35 ton light: 16 HP and 32 armor
30 ton light: 14 HP and 28 armor
25 ton light: 12 HP and 24 armor

Looks like a pattern, doesn't it? But wait, we still have 20 ton lights to look at...

20 ton light: 8 HP and 16 armor


Notice that huge dropoff? The larger lights lose 2 HP and 4 armor for every bump down in tonnage, but the 20 tonner loses 4 HP and 8 armor compared to a 25 tonner. It loses twice as much, basically. Using the pattern above, a 20 ton light *should* have 10 internal HP and 20 armor capacity. 8 HP and 16 armor would be for a 15 ton ultralight mech.

And why does this happen? Because FASA probably somehow thought 20 ton mechs would be overpowered if they weren't artificially handicapped somehow, beyond an already low armor limit and low weapon tonnage.

Edited by Carrie Harder, 29 August 2014 - 10:21 PM.

[Deathlike]

The only real positive thing about the Firemoth is actually the high firing points.

You can think of a lot of annoying things to do with that... compared to the Lolcust.

Edited by Deathlike, 29 August 2014 - 10:21 PM.

[FDJustin]

Carrie Harder, on 29 August 2014 - 10:06 PM, said:

...

And why does this happen? Because FASA probably somehow thought 20 ton mechs would be overpowered if they weren't artificially handicapped somehow, beyond an already low armor limit and low weapon tonnage.

Maybe they just looked at the locust and went "Nah, it wouldn't make sense." http://www.sarna.net...T-3M_Locust.jpg I actually prefer this design. The other pictures look more like mosquitos or angry crayfish.

Crayfish would be a great name for a light mech.I call dibs if we ever get to make our own designs.

[Damien Tokala]

this is what the firemoth was for. you strip all the weapons, put a solhama in it, load it up with high yield explosives, and run it as a suicide machine. happened all the time in MW4

[Carrie Harder]

Damien Tokala, on 29 August 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

this is what the firemoth was for. you strip all the weapons, put a solhama in it, load it up with high yield explosives, and run it as a suicide machine. happened all the time in MW4

The Firemoth didn't appear in MW4 until one of MekTek's MekPaks for MW4: Mercs. MW4:Mercs didn't feature high explosives like Vengeance and I think Black Knight did, and even if it did have those the Moth didn't have enough hardpoint space to fit them (high explosives took 2 hardpoints, Firemoths hardpoints were only 1 slot each).

[Mcgral18]

KursedVixen, on 29 August 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

216 is only with masc though XD it runs 162 without. You also need to consider that Clan armor is generally better than innersphere armor. I'm confidant that the firemoth would compete evenly with a locust.

Clan armour isn't better than IS armour. You get more Ferro per ton, but same max cap. Endo (IS or Clan) is always better than Ferro.

162+10%? 180 is fast, but not faster than hitscan. Give the Clans a useful light, rather than just another Lolcust.

Though, at least you can max the armour. Stock firemoth would be so DoA. Max armour...slightly less DoA.

[Damien Tokala]

Carrie Harder, on 29 August 2014 - 10:28 PM, said:

The Firemoth didn't appear in MW4 until one of MekTek's MekPaks for MW4: Mercs. MW4:Mercs didn't feature high explosives like Vengeance and I think Black Knight did, and even if it did have those the Moth didn't have enough hardpoint space to fit them (high explosives took 2 hardpoints, Firemoths hardpoints were only 1 slot each).

yeah, they stripped armor because it was pointless for the suicide dash

[Y E O N N E]

You would be surprised how long the Locust can last on an LRM-heavy field.

[Darth Futuza]

If the maps were much larger, it'd probably be a very useful scouting/quick cap mech, but since LRMS can cover the range of any map, it'd be useless right now.

[Lynx7725]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 August 2014 - 10:57 PM, said:

You would be surprised how long the Locust can last on an LRM-heavy field.

Eh depends on the pilot. I had one enemy Lolcust run behind my lines in Frozen Night in one game, but was too incautious. I got him locked up and taken down with a few salvos. Locusts just doesn't pack enough armour to take a concentrated battering for any amount of time.

KursedVixen, on 29 August 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

216 is only with masc though XD it runs 162 without. You also need to consider that Clan armor is generally better than innersphere armor. I'm confidant that the firemoth would compete evenly with a locust.

Misconception. Clan armour is no better than IS armour in protection. And each mech tonnage has a fixed maximum armour capacity. Clan armour is "better" in that it is lighter, so you can squeeze other stuff in, but by itself it has no protective edge over IS armour.

[Wolfways]

As if the servers could handle anything faster than the current mechs....

Actually they have trouble with current speeds

[Wolfways]

Darth Futuza, on 31 August 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

If the maps were much larger, it'd probably be a very useful scouting/quick cap mech, but since LRMS can cover the range of any map, it'd be useless right now.

You know there are currently 21 weapons in MWO that have a longer range than the so-called long range missiles...and 1000m isn't that great a distance (not that LRM's are really viable over around 600m+).

[Darth Futuza]

Wolfways, on 31 August 2014 - 10:30 PM, said:

You know there are currently 21 weapons in MWO that have a longer range than the so-called long range missiles...and 1000m isn't that great a distance (not that LRM's are really viable over around 600m+).

Yeah but a Gauss rifle etc actually require skill to use and so if they make the shot they deserve it. Plenty of the maps only have effective playing areas that are within that 1000m.

[Wolfways]

Darth Futuza, on 31 August 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

Yeah but a Gauss rifle etc actually require skill to use and so if they make the shot they deserve it. Plenty of the maps only have effective playing areas that are within that 1000m.

Nobody gets hit at anywhere near 1000m by LRM's.