78 replies to this topic

[Hades Trooper]

Russ Bullock, on 15 September 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

Yes that is right, that goes for the MC reward, pre-sale, top-tier and ultimate clan - still time to achieve them

So this was Russ's response to a quiry about buying a pre purchase pack of clan mechs.


So here's my question Russ.

I pre purchased a kit fox pack. Then after the clans came up i upgraded my pack each day day till i had a Direwolf package. I didn't get the polygon pattern for the mechs i purchased after the clan went live. The response i get that supposely these extra mechs i bought wheren't a pre purchase. the devs are aware of this but no decision has been made.


Why is it you will allow someone to "pre-purchase" a clan pack to be egible for the to get a free Atlas, yet the clans have already been released. Yet those of us who who did pre pruchase you now say oh those mechs UPGRADED your pre chase don't count as pre purcahses.


If your gonna let people buy clan packs now and be egible for pre purchase free atlas's than the same train of thought why shouldn't i get my polygon pattern for my mechs i've upgraded my pre purcahsed package? When actually it's more like adding on, which if that was the case i'd have just waited to buy the mechs for c-bills.


To allow people to earn purchase bonuses buy buying now is a slap in the face while your stiffing me on my 3 mechs polygon patterns.


I emialed support about thise twice, only got 1 response. Fanboys of the forums shouted me down for expressing my feelings.

those same fanboys had better now back this up or stand against those who haven't already pre purchased a clan pack from getting the free atlas.


I'd just like a level playing field. Count as pre purcahse for one matter and then not for another is a double standard. It things like this that to me show the true colours of pgi

[LT. HARDCASE]

I have no issue. I bought the Masakari Pack, but shortly after the clans went live. Guess what? I missed out on the Polygon pattern and the special warhorn. If you bought any of them after launch, no you don't get them. Because them's the rules.

Thy just worded it badly, by calling it the "Pre-Sale Reward". That doesn't mean they'e wronged you in some way.

Please correct me if I've misunderstood your complaint.

[l33tworks]

I agree with OP. It makes no sense to be a stickler over some ambigous rule as op has had difficulty with by properly pre purchasing a pack, just upgrading it later while it is still officialy on sale, but now suddenly buying a totally new clan pack today qualifies as a complete pre purchase when it suits pgi.

[Hades Trooper]

Kevjack, on 16 September 2014 - 06:04 PM, said:

I have no issue. I bought the Masakari Pack, but shortly after the clans went live. Guess what? I missed out on the Polygon pattern and the special warhorn. If you bought any of them after launch, no you don't get them. Because them's the rules.

Thy just worded it badly, by calling it the "Pre-Sale Reward". That doesn't mean they'e wronged you in some way.

Please correct me if I've misunderstood your complaint.

lets clear this up, idk what clan pack you bought, thats is not the point.

As for thems the rules, this si what i'm taling about.

How can Russ say anyone who buys a clan pack now counts towards being able to achieve the free atlas for being a pre sale accunt, yet those of us who did pre sale and then upgraded they then say oh but the mechs u bought after this date aren't a pre sale?

Russ is saying one thing and his staff another. That is a double standard.


If the mechs i bought after the clan packs went live don't count as part of my pre-sale then mech packages bought now shoudln't count as pre-sales towards getting the free atlas.


I'm not saying my pov is right or wrong, i'm saying you can't have double standards and changes this standard to apply when it's suits them.

Either Russ needs to give everyone who pre-saled a clan [pack who then upgraded the packs with there free polygon patterns or it's too late for people to get pre-sale status for buying clan packs now to earn there free atlas,

it's one or the other.

you just can't say no to a customer who did pre-sale order and then say but anything after this date is not a pre-sale and then 2 months later say, oh buy now and it counts as a pre-sale.

[Hades Trooper]

Is there any chance Russ will respond or at least this be passed onto Russ?

[l33tworks]

Hades Trooper, on 16 September 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

Is there any chance Russ will respond or at least this be passed onto Russ?

It can go any way. They can either ignore it entirely and you never hear a peep about it again beyond this thread for the rest of your life or you could see some green text pop up any minute saying they are internally discussing whether to allow people who purchased any level tier clan pack before release that upgrade before a certain date, will get all the pre purchase rewards. Its pot luck as far as you are concerned.

I fully understand where you are coming from.

Edited by l33tworks, 16 September 2014 - 07:14 PM.

[Artgathan]

There is no double standard.

One was "Pre-Clan Release".

The other is "Pre-Atlas Release".

[Deathlike]

You could just PM him... and link the thread for the response.

I believe he said in the appreciation thread that you can buy any level of the Clan Packs to get the Atlas-S reward.

With respect to the polygon camos though... those are offered before the drop dead date of when the packs are released. The goal is to allow you to make purchases and upgrades before that date... as upgrading past that date will not get you the bonuses, including the polygon camos for the "upgraded" package.

While it would be magnanimous for Russ/PGI to provide you said bonus, but by the letter of the pre-sale benefits, you get what you bought at the time and nothing more past that point in time. It's nicer if the your upgrade inherits said benefits and it would be good for everyone for sure (PGI being nice about it, and you getting something out of it), but that is up to Russ/PGI really.

Edit:
The Atlas-S bonus has a drop dead date (next Tuesday)... but the barrier to entry is as "small" as just getting the Kitfox package... it's not retroactive though and neither is that Polygon camo bonus.

Edited by Deathlike, 16 September 2014 - 07:17 PM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

But that's what I mean, if they had simply titled it the "Previous Sale Reward", would you have this issue? It's only about the title, and not the actual spirit of the reward. It's about those who bought previous program packs, not only those who bought them before the launch period of said packs ended.

I'm not trying to imply you have no right to feel wronged, or that you are coming from a flawed position. Just giving you my perspective on your view.

Artgathan, on 16 September 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

There is no double standard.

One was "Pre-Clan Release".

The other is "Pre-Atlas Release".

Yes, good point.

Edited by Kevjack, 16 September 2014 - 07:16 PM.

[l33tworks]

Artgathan, on 16 September 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

There is no double standard.

One was "Pre-Clan Release".

The other is "Pre-Atlas Release".

The double standard is that now of a sudden even current purchases of top teir clan packs will qualify you for the same pre purchase bonuses as people who genuinely pre purchased. It would be OK if PGI took the stance of well sorry but they are the rules we cant bend them, but you can see they are clearly happy to change the rules on a whim if it suits them.

In my observations of people that cant develop the a good relationship with PGI Its small things like this that make people feel a they are dealing with a passive aggressive or distrustful attitude from PGI.

Edited by l33tworks, 16 September 2014 - 07:25 PM.

[Nathan Foxbane]

As far as I can tell if you are just purchasing now, only the Wave Two Clan pack will count towards a pre-purchase.

The OP only got the pre-purchase bonuses on the Kit Fox because they only had the Kit Fox before the first Clan Omnis (ironically the Kit Fox) got released. All others were purchased after after release (even if they themselves were not actually acquirible through any other means yet) so do not qualify to receive the Polygon Camo bonus.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 16 September 2014 - 07:24 PM.

[Roadkill]

Hades Trooper, on 16 September 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

Hades Trooper, on 16 September 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:

Why is it you will allow someone to "pre-purchase" a clan pack to be egible for the to get a free Atlas, yet the clans have already been released. Yet those of us who who did pre pruchase you now say oh those mechs UPGRADED your pre chase don't count as pre purcahses.

You're reading it wrong.

The camo patterns, etc, required that you pre-order an appropriate package. In order to qualify, you had to order your package before a certain date. In the case of the Phoenix and Clan packages, those packages were still available after the deadline, but purchases made after the deadline were not pre-orders and so did not qualify for the pre-order bonus.

The Atlas requires that you have purchased a pre-sale package. Note that it does not say that you have to pre-order that package, just that you have to have purchased one. The Masakari package is a pre-sale package regardless of when you purchase it... they've just extended the availability of the pre-sale package until after the pre-order deadline.

It's a minor difference, but it is actually consistent.

[Artgathan]

l33tworks, on 16 September 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

The double standard is that now of a sudden even current purchases of top teir clan packs will qualify you for the same pre purchase bonuses as people who genuinely pre purchased. It would be OK if PGI took the stance of well sorry but they are the rules we cant bend them, but you can see they are clearly happy to change the rules on a whim if it suits them.

Incorrect.

If you pre-purchased the clans before their release, you got X things included.

If you purchased a clan pack after that, you got Y.

Now if you purchase a clan pack you get Z.

Considering the Clan sale was never closed, I don't see why there should be an arbitrary "cut-off" point for purchases. Calling something a double standard does not automatically make it a double standard.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Hades Trooper, on 16 September 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

lets clear this up, idk what clan pack you bought, thats is not the point.

As for thems the rules, this si what i'm taling about.

How can Russ say anyone who buys a clan pack now counts towards being able to achieve the free atlas for being a pre sale accunt, yet those of us who did pre sale and then upgraded they then say oh but the mechs u bought after this date aren't a pre sale?

Russ is saying one thing and his staff another. That is a double standard.


If the mechs i bought after the clan packs went live don't count as part of my pre-sale then mech packages bought now shoudln't count as pre-sales towards getting the free atlas.


I'm not saying my pov is right or wrong, i'm saying you can't have double standards and changes this standard to apply when it's suits them.

Either Russ needs to give everyone who pre-saled a clan [pack who then upgraded the packs with there free polygon patterns or it's too late for people to get pre-sale status for buying clan packs now to earn there free atlas,

it's one or the other.

you just can't say no to a customer who did pre-sale order and then say but anything after this date is not a pre-sale and then 2 months later say, oh buy now and it counts as a pre-sale.

Dude... he's saying that everyone who buys clan pack 2 up till release day will count as pre-release... that's it.

[Ghogiel]

Well either way. he did get a preorder pack. The upgrading post release and not getting preorder goodies for those upgrades is a bit annoying.

meh I suppose

[l33tworks]

Artgathan, on 16 September 2014 - 07:26 PM, said:

Incorrect.

If you pre-purchased the clans before their release, you got X things included.

If you purchased a clan pack after that, you got Y.

Now if you purchase a clan pack you get Z.

Considering the Clan sale was never closed, I don't see why there should be an arbitrary "cut-off" point for purchases. Calling something a double standard does not automatically make it a double standard.

Maybe you are right. Many times PGI have to pick between pissing of one group of people or another so they are in a tough spot as far as making anyone happy. But the wording for all the rewards including the Ultimate clan reward is "purchased", and now also pre-purchase a Wave 2 Man O War package in, not people who will now purchase these things after the announcement and still get the bonus. I think that the general spirit of the announcement is to give unexpected or bonus or suprise rewards if you will to people who have already made purchases that they were not expecting. Giving players a chance to still get these same perks as people who bought this stuff without expecting these bonuses, is a good thing and it makes good sense, but it goes against the point or vibe of the rewards.

If they can do this surely its not a big deal to allow people like OP to get their rewards from upgrading their pack, seeing as they are still on sale as well and he upgraded them long before this announcement as well.

Edited by l33tworks, 16 September 2014 - 07:44 PM.

[Cmdr Rad]

There's been previous cases where these "Social Promotions" have been vague. For example, the "Exclusive" status of the skins with the Phoenix Pack. Or they leave weird edge cases in the wording, like for example: What if you buy the Clan Wave 2 before you buy the Masaraki Collection? Does that mean you won't get your Mad Dog because you bought it in the wrong order? (Note: To be fair, we have yet to see the official wording for Clan Wave 2)

They'd do better to spell out these promotions better before than to leave them vague and have their customers feeling as if they were swindled later. And in the cases of vagueness, that they rule in favor of the customer.

But, back on topic: FAQ is Here. It states in the FAQ that pre-purchase rewards only apply to the mechs you purchased before the pre-order date. So notice was given. Unless of course this was stealth edited in later, but I wouldn't know (Do all Dev/Mod edit warnings show up to the public? There's a feature on other boards to make it so Dev/Mod edits don't show that warning).

NOW, with that said... these social promotion terms were organized by IGP, not PGI. Considering the noise that Russ has made about his disagreement with the way IGP handled things and wanting to turn a new leaf... And the recent promotion with the Mad Dog to promote further Masaraki purchases... perhaps Russ could change the rule on the Clan Pack Social Rewards to allow anyone that pre-ordered any level of the promotion to recieve the social rewards for any future mechs they recieve from the Clan Pack Social Rewards. Giving away a few skins is a small price for giving their players more temptation to dump a huge amount of money into this game.

Edited by Cmdr Rad, 16 September 2014 - 07:44 PM.

[Artgathan]

l33tworks, on 16 September 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

Maybe you are right. Many times PGI have to pick between pissing of one group of people or another so they are in a tough spot as far as making anyone happy. But the wording for all the rewards including the Ultimate clan reward is "purchased", and now also pre-purchase a Wave 2 Man O War package in, not people who will now purchase these things after the announcement and still get the bonus. I think that the general spirit of the announcement is to give unexpected or bonus or suprise rewards if you will to people who have already made purchases that they were not expecting. Giving players a chance to still get these same perks as people who bought this stuff without expecting these bonuses, is a good thing and it makes good sense, but it goes against the point or vibe of the rewards.

If they can do this surely its not a big deal to allow people like OP to get their rewards from upgrading their pack, seeing as they are still on sale as well and he upgraded them long before this announcement as well.

The vague wording is problematic. Consider: "This reward is for players who purchased a Masakari Clan Invasion package and the Wave 2 Man-o-War package." This would imply that the reward was for players who had already purchased a Masakari Packing and the Wave 2 Man-o-War package, but the wave 2 man-o-war package was not actually on sale at the time the Customer Appreciation Program was posted (ergo the bonus must not apply to people who already owned both, since that group would not actually include anyone). The paragraph concludes with the phrase: "The Ultimate Clan Reward program will be available for as long as the Clan Invasion Programs remain active." which implies that any purchase of the Masakari Clan Invasion Package and the Wave 2 Man-o-War package will be sufficient to earn the Ultimate Clan Reward.

It's difficult to parse quickly, but because of how it is set up the logical conclusion of this all is that as long as you:

1. Purchase the Masakari Clan Invasion Package before the Clan Invasion Program ends AND
2. Purchase the Wave 2 Man-o-War Package before the Clan Invasion Program ends

You will receive the Ultimate Clan Reward.

[Hades Trooper]

Flash Frame, on 16 September 2014 - 07:30 PM, said:

Dude... he's saying that everyone who buys clan pack 2 up till release day will count as pre-release... that's it.

No if you bothered to read correctly the person Russ is responding too it talking abiout buying a kit fox pack now.

As for the wording, OMG wording in sales is EVERYTHING!

you can't advertise and say one thing and then go back and say, oh but this is what we actually mean.

Russ is saying yes if you buy a clan pack NOW, and as of this very second the only clan pack you can buy is the EXISTING clan packs, not this wave 2 stuff, and it counts as a pre sale towards getting a free atlas.


How can i buy an existing pack thats been out for months and it counts as a pre sale towards getting bonuses and my mechs i bought as an upgrade not count as a pre sale item thus should be egible for the polygon pattern.


You can't say sorry you bougth these mechs as an upgrade after said date thus there not a pre sale and then have the SAME packs sold today and count towards pre-sale status months later.

thats what is called a double standard. sorry for anyone that isn't clear cut enough to understand if you can't understand i can't make it any cleaer and thus have no point in responding too

[Bhael Fire]

Hades Trooper, on 16 September 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:

If your gonna let people buy clan packs now and be egible for pre purchase free atlas's than the same train of thought why shouldn't i get my polygon pattern for my mechs i've upgraded my pre purcahsed package?

The social rewards were for those that purchased the Clan packs BEFORE they were released....not after. It was a promotion to get people to buy Clan packs before they were released.

This new promotion is similar and is meant as a "last chance" offer; buy the Clan mech packs...or miss out on the goodies...again.