242 replies to this topic

[Tombstoner]

When does any of this enter the public domain.

[JohnnyWayne]

He has not just hinted it. The mechs and models ARE PGI property because they actualle MADE them. They are as stated before obliged (as far as I know) to create their own models for the mechs.

The actual benefit of producing unsave contet for MWO is too low. Court costs would rise over the revenue quickly. So as sad as it is we can only hope for a quick but painful end for HG or some rich arabic sheik with a fetish for the marauder.

Tombstoner, on 30 September 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

When does any of this enter the public domain.

Where are you getting at? I dont get what you mean. Whad do you MEAN?! ^^

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 30 September 2014 - 02:42 PM.

[IceSerpent]

Tombstoner, on 30 September 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

When does any of this enter the public domain.

I would guess never, assuming that trademark remains valid.

[Apnu]

Tombstoner, on 30 September 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

When does any of this enter the public domain.

That's a tricky question "Public Domain" in which jurisdiction? The United States? Canada? Japan?

Robotech is a active product in Japan, I don't know a thing about Japanese copyright law, but I'm sure that since its still alive, any public domain clock isn't ticking yet. As for the Americas, HG still fires up lawyers if anybody even looks at Robotech without their say. Suffice to say, in America, Robotech is still having its copyright renewed. So long as the copyright is renewed the public domain clock is not ticking. But, I could be wrong on that, either way, public domain in the US is 70 years from creation or from the last date of copyright renewal. If its from creation, and Robotech was "created" in the US circa 1983, we have a long time to wait.

[Apnu]

JohnnyWayne, on 30 September 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

He has not just hinted it. The mechs and models ARE PGI property because they actualle MADE them. They are as stated before obliged (as far as I know) to create their own models for the mechs.

The actual benefit of producing unsave contet for MWO is too low. Court costs would rise over the revenue quickly. So as sad as it is we can only hope for a quick but painful end for HG or some rich arabic sheik with a fetish for the marauder.

I say "hinting" because Russ was not firm and somewhat vague when asked about the remaining Unseen mechs. He left the door open, but made it clear who owned the mechs in this game and noted that they really aren't focused, right now, on any more unseen mechs.

Its possible that's a smoke screen. We know PGI can and does work on mechs while working on game features. We know they are working on clan wave II while working on CW. We also know the list of 3049 mechs for the IS is getting pretty thin right now, so they'll have to dig up something soon (There are quite a few mechs left do to, such as the Panther, Dervish, Enforcer, Zeus and Cyclops). So who knows what the future holds.

I think PGI could have a go at it if they base their models of the mechs off the Reseen designs just like they did for the Project Phoenix mechs. HG hasn't or won't been able to go after Catalyst Games for the Project Phoenix TRO, so it stands to reason they'd leave PGI alone if PGI used the Reseen designs. But then Catalyst Games is smaller fruit than PGI. Russ is a small business man so he's understandably sensitive to threats to his business. And he's aware of the HG legal eagles are keeping an eye on PGI after the teaser video fiasco.

But in defense of PGI, that Warhammer in that video was very close to the Robotech Destroid Tomahawk, and it was a rookie mistake. I think Russ simply doesn't have the energy for an assumed legal challenge if they haul out the remainder of the Unseen.

Personally, I don't think HG would have a leg to stand on in court and won't bother if PGI takes inspiration from Project Phoenix. I think PGI would be fine. But I understand any trepidation Russ & company might have.

Edited by Apnu, 30 September 2014 - 02:59 PM.

[KamikazeRat]

Apnu, on 30 September 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

That's a tricky question "Public Domain" in which jurisdiction? The United States? Canada? Japan?

Robotech is a active product in Japan, I don't know a thing about Japanese copyright law, but I'm sure that since its still alive, any public domain clock isn't ticking yet. As for the Americas, HG still fires up lawyers if anybody even looks at Robotech without their say. Suffice to say, in America, Robotech is still having its copyright renewed. So long as the copyright is renewed the public domain clock is not ticking. But, I could be wrong on that, either way, public domain in the US is 70 years from creation or from the last date of copyright renewal. If its from creation, and Robotech was "created" in the US circa 1983, we have a long time to wait.

ok, wow, i knew the public domain clock was a long one, but.....dang... thats long...

also, i think the only way to go about it would be to draw up arts....take them to HG and say, here's what we're going to do....these ok? if yes, get it in writing that these designs are different enough to be legally "different" if no, change arts until yes. if it becomes apparent that HG will not allow anything, quit trying and call it a good effort and let us all know that you tried.

Edited by KamikazeRat, 30 September 2014 - 03:01 PM.

[Apnu]

KamikazeRat, on 30 September 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

ok, wow, i knew the public domain clock was a long one, but.....dang... thats long...

Yes it is messy business. Just look at how tangled HP Lovecraft's public domain status is. http://lovecraft.wik...H._P._Lovecraft

And we're not talking about IP leased from competing vendors in Japan. Which is essentially what the whole FASA v Harmony Gold fight was about.

[JohnnyWayne]

Clearly PGI should move to china. No one gives a **** about copyrights there

[Metus regem]

JohnnyWayne, on 30 September 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

Clearly PGI should move to china. No one gives a **** about copyrights there

They are in Hong-cover, close enough...

[JohnnyWayne]

Obviously not... -.-

[Lord de Seis]

Dawnstealer, on 30 September 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

I actually DIDN'T know that. That's interesting. Games Workshop had a similar issue recently with their IP and nearly lost the rights to their stuff (they had characters in books, but not in miniature form, so third parties started making them).

Makes sense HG might be a little more touchy about their IP, if that's the case.

I think it is a bit personal between the companies for sure, it is an interesting topic to discuss though.

JohnnyWayne, on 30 September 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

The "fact" that no other studio touched the unseens is caused that HG almost finished FASA with court costs. Of course they didn't touch them. As a company you wouldn't risk all for some designes that could give you "some" revenue.

The problem is that in japan the matter has been settled long ago as I described. The thing that is open is the matter of international law. It has never been settled in court. FASA and HG made an agreement on their own. The content of it is still not known to public.

Courts have said nothing. If you don't know the case why are you screaming all over the place?!

A real problem I see with shimmering swords designs is that PGI agreed to only use their own designs. And his designs were used already.

Okay if that is true and the courts haven't said anything it still isn't worth fighting HG over a few mech designs that could bankrupt PGI. I have no doubt the revenue off the unseen mechs would be impressive but in the end I doubt it would be worth it for PGI, it doesn't make any sense for them to do it from a business stand point.

It is a can of worms not worth opening at this point, maybe if they start running out of designs but there is a LOT of mechs.

I will say the MW4 MekTek Mechpacks are awesome with all the unseen mechs.

Edited by Lord de Seis, 30 September 2014 - 03:59 PM.

[KamikazeRat]

they can't build it and wait to see if they get sued, that seems to be what alot of people are thinking.... "lets just do this thing, its kinda close, maybe they won't notice"

nope...they're gonna catch on....the only way to do this (depending on what the whole NDC super-secret out of court settlement was) would be a test-and-check method. like i said earlier, Art ->HG, wait for yes/no, revise art until HG says yes, or says "F'NO go'way"

anything else, any other attempt at these chassis, even re-seen, they are risking lawsuits aimed at PGI/Microsoft/Whoever, until there's enough money in shooting them down tied up that they are forced to settle.

Edited by KamikazeRat, 30 September 2014 - 04:11 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Apnu, on 30 September 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

That's a tricky question "Public Domain" in which jurisdiction? The United States? Canada? Japan?

Robotech is a active product in Japan, I don't know a thing about Japanese copyright law, but I'm sure that since its still alive, any public domain clock isn't ticking yet. As for the Americas, HG still fires up lawyers if anybody even looks at Robotech without their say. Suffice to say, in America, Robotech is still having its copyright renewed. So long as the copyright is renewed the public domain clock is not ticking. But, I could be wrong on that, either way, public domain in the US is 70 years from creation or from the last date of copyright renewal. If its from creation, and Robotech was "created" in the US circa 1983, we have a long time to wait.

No... Macross is an active property, Robotech is a mashup of Macross/Mospeda/southern Cross.

To Clairfy, Robotech would be considered a different property as a whole than Macross, because 3 shows were taken to create 1 for Robotech. where as Macross, Mospeda, Southern Cross are completely different series in Japan

Edited by Flash Frame, 30 September 2014 - 04:39 PM.

[Apnu]

Flash Frame, on 30 September 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

No... Macross is an active property, Robotech is a mashup of Macross/Mospeda/something else.

But the mecha designs covered under the FASA settlement are specific to Macross. Macross has had a few court battles in Japan over ownership. In any case, it doesn't matter, because FASA settled with HG, and as a result of that, in terms of any FASA derived products, of which this game is that, those products are beholden to the settlement.

HG claims ownership of Robotech and its source material in the United States. Its for that reason we have great difficulty getting new Macross here in the states, basically because HG won't import it and add it to their established story line. Which causes all the Macross fans here to pirate it from Japan and they hate HG for it. They hate HG more than we do, if you can believe that.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Apnu, on 30 September 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

But the mecha designs covered under the FASA settlement are specific to Macross. Macross has had a few court battles in Japan over ownership. In any case, it doesn't matter, because FASA settled with HG, and as a result of that, in terms of any FASA derived products, of which this game is that, those products are beholden to the settlement.

HG claims ownership of Robotech and its source material in the United States. Its for that reason we have great difficulty getting new Macross here in the states, basically because HG won't import it and add it to their established story line. Which causes all the Macross fans here to pirate it from Japan and they hate HG for it. They hate HG more than we do, if you can believe that.

And it's those japanese rulings that give whoever decides to finally fight HG for rights in the states, a leg up.

[Apnu]

Flash Frame, on 30 September 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

And it's those japanese rulings that give whoever decides to finally fight HG for rights in the states, a leg up.

True, but those can't be FASA because of the settlement. I guess, if they can take the settlement to court and argue it invalid since the company that HG leased the rights from has since lost those rights. But, that begs the question, how has the time, money and interest to do that?

[JoolNoret]

http://www.kotaku.com/5990702/why-you-havent-seen-any-new-macross-in-the-west-for-nearly-15-years
The Macross franchise is a huge mess outside of Japan. Basically Harmony Gold owns a small part but claims everything and Big West/Taktsunoko/Studio Nue have just let it slide everywhere except Japan. I kinda feel like HG is holding on to it partly out of spite at this point. Spite and greed. Hate for HG runs deep, they know it so they just rub it in our wounds with a dash of salt ... imo.

Edited by JoolNoret, 30 September 2014 - 10:09 PM.

[Iron Riding Cowboy]

KamikazeRat, on 30 September 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

they can't build it and wait to see if they get sued, that seems to be what alot of people are thinking.... "lets just do this thing, its kinda close, maybe they won't notice"

nope...they're gonna catch on....the only way to do this (depending on what the whole NDC super-secret out of court settlement was) would be a test-and-check method. like i said earlier, Art ->HG, wait for yes/no, revise art until HG says yes, or says "F'NO go'way"

anything else, any other attempt at these chassis, even re-seen, they are risking lawsuits aimed at PGI/Microsoft/Whoever, until there's enough money in shooting them down tied up that they are forced to settle.

What if PGI just gives us a 75 ton king crab to replace the Marauder? and a IS loki ? can say the IS loki is the prototype of the clans Loki. we just replace them and move on? do not need the unseen we just use what we have to replace them with works best

Edited by Iron Riding Cowboy, 01 October 2014 - 03:22 AM.

[Action Man]

while I love to see a Marauder on the field, I think the biggest hurdle is coming up with 4 unique variants. while there are a few variants, looking at it from a hardpoint standpoint, they are all virtually identical.

[Iron Riding Cowboy]

To tell the truth if i was russ ill get on the phone with Hasbro and Tatsunoko Productions , Big West , studio nue , macrosoft and every one else HG starting conflicts with and start a coalition to file a lawsuit to take away any false claims HG has on macross. i know Tatsunoko Productions , Big West , studio nue can make a lot of money if they can expand macross out of japan .

and start a fundraiser for it to after all HG has a lot of people who will pay to take them down http://www.ign.com/b...illing-robotech