45 replies to this topic

[Dirty Dawg]

One thing that I've noticed in a lot of games recently is that there seem to be a lot of players who don't do well with teamwork, and I'm not sure why this is. I've seen a lot of Mechwarriors who seem absolutely unwilling to get decisively engaged, even if it to their advantage to do so.

For example, I've noticed several times if there has been an enemy or two hanging back behind a terrain feature, skirmishing with four or more friendly mechs, a friendly mech will move up to engage them, and rather than push up with their lancemate, the rest of the lance will hang back and either fire a few pot shots, or not even engage at all, while the friendly mech is forced to fight one on one or one on two, with all enemy fire focused on him. This means the friendly mech is much more likely to be destroyed, weakening the team, even when it was a fight that the friendly mechs could have easily won if they hadn't been so hesitant to engage.

I'm not talking about one mech running off far away on his own and getting destroyed by the whole enemy team, I'm talking about friendly mechs being in close proximity, in a good position to provide support, and still not engaging the enemy. It often results in friendly mechs giving up an advantage because they are unwilling to be aggressive.

Has anyone else experienced this, or know what is causing it? Is it simply a PUG problem? If so, that's unfortunate, because I have played other games in which the teamwork in PUG games is generally quite good. Is it the lack of integrated voice communication? Or is it simply a cultural thing within the game at this point, with many MechWarriors only willing to engage at maximum range and skirmish until one team whittles down the other, and avoid decisive engagements at all costs?

If this is a common problem, what can we do to improve it?

Edited by Dirty Dawg, 27 September 2014 - 06:45 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

Communicate more. Give some notice, tell people those mechs are there and what you plan to do about it. Those teammates are probably looking at other enemies hiding behind a different terrain feature and waiting for some low-risk potshots and don't necessarily know what you know

[Turist0AT]

depends on the game mode. Besides the maps are small you dont need to go anywhere

[Joe Mallad]

a lot of this also has to do with the fact that the one guy on the team that is out front fighting one on one or one on two, may be a lonewolf that dropped into the game with a pre-made unit. More times than not, the lone wolf or (guy that has no microphone) of which to vocally communicate with the pre-made unit, is just SOL. Its harsh, but this is what PGI has forced on us. I promise you that if PGI had an in game VOP, you would see unit drops be more precise and my 6 man squad would operate much more effectively knowing we can vocally communicate with the 6 lone wolves o other 4 man and 2 lone wolves. Most people want to communicate with everyone in their drop unit but most dont want to have to play a game that is 100% dependent on keyboard and mouse operations but also having to type to communicate lol. PGI really needs to get with the program on this.

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

When dropping outside of my own trinary, I almost exclusively drop in my KFX, with ECM and triple AMS.
I sit behind cover for 90% of the match and do nothing.
This is because usually when you do find yourself in the situaion OP describes, its either suicide or hide like a coward, being an umbrella mech allows me to hang back and not let my team down in the process.
Do not get me wrong, I prefer the brawly agressive style of combat, but relying on PUGs to work in cohesion for that purpose is too much of a gamble to bother.
Thus umbrella mech ftw.

[Kain Demos]

That's been the theme of the day for me so far....had a nasty 0-6 streak getting stuck on teams full of rambos.

[Sadist Cain]

The problem certainly isn't integrated comms, that's for friends, unit's, people who have a desire to hear each others voices. I'n a night I'm not interested in hearing the bitching/whining/smack talk of hundreds, this is why I filter all but lance chat.

Rarely there's any real tactics outside of GROUP UP!?1/omg everyone but me is so bad/WHY U NO STOP ME DIE?!? and so on with very little useful info indispersed into that.

So there's no way in hell I have any desire to hear the sounds of morons and overly upset no lifers and if I did, I'd invite them onto teamspeak.
ergo the solution would be...

Commo Rose!!!

One for communicating between lancemates, and another for use by lance commanders and company commanders (which should be assigned at game start by the way) so that there isn't endless spawn for a buttload of other players.

We'll see lances able to communicate better, ergo more effective to work together, and commanders brave enough to work together being even better.

It also completely overcomes any and all language barriers between people.

Come on PGi give tools for teamwork to the masses!!!

Maybe small groups wont be so borked this way too.

Edited by Sadist Cain, 27 September 2014 - 04:20 PM.

[Sadist Cain]

B A B Y D O L L, on 27 September 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

Seconded. Being deaf, I find this TS requirement for units kinda frustrating.

Half deaf myself, I find it causes me to pick and choose people I speak to online very carefully and I'm particularly narky about how people set up their microphones, ensuring they're perfect, not something that can work with many strangers with VOIP.


tis certainly one of the easiest and most compatible ways to do business in this respect, low impact on the servers and everything.

Restricting everything to voip is effectievly dividing up everyone by country as well, you'd get more consistent game quality from a commo rose on which the language changes for the user.

***Edit, Consider it a more refined language filter, you prevent anyone from saying anything that'll be remotely useful

Edited by Sadist Cain, 27 September 2014 - 04:37 PM.

[Davegt27]

Quote

One thing that I've noticed in a lot of games recently is that there seem to be a lot of players who don't do well with teamwork, and I'm not sure why this is. I've seen a lot of Mechwarriors who seem absolutely unwilling to get decisively engaged, even if it to their advantage to do so.

For example, I've noticed several times if there has been an enemy or two hanging back behind a terrain feature, skirmishing with four or more friendly mechs, a friendly mech will move up to engage them, and rather than push up with their lancemate, the rest of the lance will hang back and either fire a few pot shots, or not even engage at all, while the friendly mech is forced to fight one on one or one on two, with all enemy fire focused on him. This means the friendly mech is much more likely to be destroyed, weakening the team, even when it was a fight that the friendly mechs could have easily won if they hadn't been so hesitant to engage.

I'm not talking about one mech running off far away on his own and getting destroyed by the whole enemy team, I'm talking about friendly mechs being in close proximity, in a good position to provide support, and still not engaging the enemy. It often results in friendly mechs giving up an advantage because they are unwilling to be aggressive.

Has anyone else experienced this, or know what is causing it? Is it simply a PUG problem? If so, that's unfortunate, because I have played other games in which the teamwork in PUG games is generally quite good. Is it the lack of integrated voice communication? Or is it simply a cultural thing within the game at this point, with many MechWarriors only willing to engage at maximum range and skirmish until one time whittles down the other, and avoid decisive engagements at all costs?

If this is a common problem, what can we do to improve it?

Part of the problem is advice that is given to new players "don't go first", "let someone else go first"
There was even a rash of team mates using other team members as shields
Well some of this advice leads to people standing around looking at their toes

Here is some advice I have never seen in the new player section IF THE POINT ON THE MINI MAP IS FACING AWAY FROM YOU HIT THEM!
How about THE GUN YOU SAVE COULD SAVE YOU that means save your team mate you need that gun
Another one IF YOU DONT SHOOT YOU CANT WIN!

I could go on and on

[Kain Demos]

Ugh, what a night.

I keep getting put in teams full of losers.....matches that are defying the odds. 2nd 0-6 streak of the day even though I got 4 straight maps I have great stats in and keep getting conquest for some reason which statistically is my best mdoe as well.

[Moonlander]

I went like 0-12 earlier today. Sometimes, when I'm doing no damage, therefore being useless, it's my fault. Other times, I did everything I could.

We had a Raven tagging on the enemy team on Caustic the entire match, even after myself and others asked the lights or any faster mech to get over there and harass him off. The LRMs were just hammering us the entire time. Everyone was trash talking the "scrub LRM no skill" people but in reality, it was our fault. How could he not take advantage of his teammate tagging everyone and being ignored by our team?

[Mcgral18]

That is the PUG life for you.


The only thing you can really do is Carry Harder!
It's matches like those I hope I'm in the WubShee. It's the only thing I own that has enough armour and firepower to carry that hard.
It's difficult if you're not in a large mech.

[D04S02B04]

I notice this issue happens more frequently in the group queue then it does in solo queue. Think about it this way. In group queue, there'll usually be a leader or a louder than usual guy who is giving instructions on teamspeak/ventrilo and everyone is listening to that guy. The truth is many people are really bad judges of what to do in a lot of situations as most players are really casual. Now apply that bad decision making to everyone and you'll see why this happens.

In solo queue, that is more dependent on what weapons your team is bringing. If they are direct fire weapons (e.g. ACs, SRMs, PPCs ONLY) they are more likely to charge with you IF you are also bringing an assault mech and move in such a manner that they can charge with you. If your team is bringing LLs and LRMs, you know pretty much they are the sit and shoot type.

[Lightfoot]

The way to lose is to rush into your opponent's focus fire trap. Do you know what that is? That's where when a team pushes forward they are fired on by 2-6 opponents as they step into view. They can only advance through the chokepoint one or two at a time so even if the whole team comes through they are being shot up as they do.

[Brody319]

Honestly. In most matches, If you give commands, people tend to follow. I tried it out, played 20 matches. 10 where I just said in chat, lock and stick together, and 10 where I said nothing. in the 10 where I merely made the suggestion, we stayed clumped up and locked more enemies. Tended to do a bit better I believe too. #Battleblob

[Project_Mercy]

People instinctually want to live and keep playing. So if they're getting shot, they're going to hide. For the most part i just turns into herding cats. You would think after a few games you would learn that sticking together at least makes for the best XP/c-bills, and yet after 3 years people still explode out in opposite directions like a starburst.

[-Natural Selection-]

This is why most teams that are aggressive win 12/0. Because when they rush in, 1/2 the players will turn and run. Pick of the facing force and get the rest in the back during their retreat.

Edited by Mickey Knoxx, 27 September 2014 - 09:10 PM.

[CocoaJin]

We have to be fair here and acknowledge that their is some significant level of fault to put squarely on the shoulders of the guy who pushed out alone to find himself engaging the enemy 1vs1 or 1vs2.

It's important that the more aggressive player not be so self absorbed in his desire to push, that he neglects to realize no one else is pushing with him. Now matter how advised, or advantageous, or appropriate it might be to push, it is your failure if you choose or fail to realize you are pushing alone, resulting in you being in a disadvantaged engagement.

[zortesh]

Sadly i see quite a few charges fall apart even after calling for a charge and having the majority of the team agree on chat, some people fully charge and get amongst the enemy, some pop out and shoot from there current positions, others take fire and immediately leap back into cover.

I have seen some good charges coordinated text speak but far less often.

Sadly alot of teams are quite passive, and usally the ones that die to lrms die partially because they don't think aggressively, I've seen direct-fire teams die slowly over and over on caustic due to narc and lrms while standing one map grid, sometimes just over a hill or just around the corner from a force thats primarily lrmboats, they could charge over that corner enmasse, a few would fall but in the no cover for anyone direct-fire vs lrm combat following the lrm boats who are filled all over with explosives, have no ability to effectively torso twist and fire, and with no ability to direct fire at specific components will melt.

But nope people will always sit there trading shots and letting them win the battle of attrition that favors them.

Edited by zortesh, 27 September 2014 - 09:34 PM.

[Mordin Ashe]

Part of being a very good pilot is the ability to realise when your chance to be very agressive pays off. That moment when you realise that those three enemies behind the corner are actually beaten and cored, one well aimed alpha would kill each of them so you charge and pick the glory and kills. That moment when you realise that the DWs movements are somehow wonky so you charge him head on an circle him in a sec, feeling that he isn't piloting tha well and will make a mistake that will cost him his life. You know what I mean, right?

It is the same for every game similar to MWO. I think it is a sign of experienced player, to know when to strike.
But often it is easier for less skilled players to just swim with the school, and then the matches look like it.