25 replies to this topic

[CrushLibs]

Just drop the heat from 3 to 2.5 otherwise why even own one.

example to 2 CER small vs. 1 CER med.

range 150m vs 400m = -63%
Crits 2 vs 1 = - 50%
Tonnage 1 vs. 1 = 0%
Heat 6 vs. 6 = 0%
Damage 7 vs 8 = + 12%

So less than 1/2 the range , twice the crits , and barely anymore damage = WORTHLESS

I understand the nerf from 5 dmg to 4 that was needed but heat needs to come down to make the small lasers worth considering.

Edited by CrushLibs, 28 September 2014 - 12:23 PM.

[Gigastrike]

They also have a shorter cooldown and duration. So the DPS from 2 ERSLs (2.46) is much higher than from 1 ERML (1.65), with a better heat/damage ratio as well.

[DivineEvil]

It's absolutely the same way with IS Small/Medium Lasers.
2 LS(IS) vs 1 ML(IS):
range 100m vs 270m = -63%
Crits 2 vs 1 = -50%
Tonnage 1 to 1 = 0%
Heat 4 vs 4 = 0%
Damage 6 vs 5 = +20%
So there's no valid point to making Clan ratio any better than IS. What makes the difference is duration and cooldown, with SLs having higher DPS.

[Mcgral18]

Why not for every small and medium laser in the game? ER, standard, pulse, every single one has an inflated heat value, ranging from 120% to 200% heat.


Every large, ER and large pulse has been buffed, for comparison.

[Brody319]

yes buff small lasers, They are soo useless. You are better off running less mediums lasers rather than a bunch of smalls

[Kain Demos]

I want Clan ERPPCs buffed.

With their current travel speed I say move the splash damage to the primary location. 15 PP damage please.

[CrushLibs]

I wasn't saying that Clan should be buffed and not IS I just used the clan in the example

[CrushLibs]

Gigastrike, on 28 September 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

They also have a shorter cooldown and duration. So the DPS from 2 ERSLs (2.46) is much higher than from 1 ERML (1.65), with a better heat/damage ratio as well.

SMURFY results : NOVA PRIME no added DHS 12 small vs 6 med. Fired in two salvos .5 secs apart.

Maximal possible dps 8.24 dmg/s
Sustained dps (without overheating) 3.21 dmg/s
Heat generation 7.06 heat/s
Cooling Efficiency 39%
Heatcapacity 59.52
Dissipation 2.94 heat/s
Approximate time to overheat 00:14

Maximal possible dps 14.77 dmg/s
Sustained dps (without overheating) 3.69 dmg/s
Heat generation 11.08 heat/s
Cooling Efficiency 25%
Heatcapacity 59.52
Dissipation 2.94 heat/s
Approximate time to overheat 00:07

Moving NOVA with 12 small lasers forest map you get 4 shots of 6 and slightly overheat.
That is at best 96 dmg

Moving NOVA with 6 Med lasers forest map you get 4 shots of 3 and almost overheat (98%).
That is at best 84 dmg and still moving while cooling down.

Standing still the NOVA with smalls was able to fire 4 shots of 6 (spiked to 97%) + 1 more 6 volley and massively overheat for a total of 120 dmg

Standing still the NOVA with MED was able to fire 4 shots of 3 (spike to 91%) + 2 more 3 volleys and moderately overheat for a total of 126 dmg

The higher DPS of the smalls (due to cool down) is offset by the overheating factor. If both mechs are standing still the MED puts out more overall damage.

Edited by CrushLibs, 28 September 2014 - 01:05 PM.

[FupDup]

IS Small Lasers are inferior to IS Medium Lasers at virtually all times (even when using 2 SL for every 1 ML), so PGI felt the need to replicate the trend in the Clan arsenal as well. Smalls aren't allowed to be useful.

Edited by FupDup, 29 September 2014 - 07:51 AM.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Yes for the love of god drop the heat on small lasers and drastically increase the ROF eg. much shorter beam duration

Make it so a brawler will trade range for increased dps, give lights an option to be hit and run specialist.

People argue that 2 SL > ML for DPS but you have limited energy slots which is what kills that.

[Christof Romulus]

If you guys don't like the way small lasers are - then don't use them.

Small lasers got buffed - originally they had a range of 90m! Right now I think they're in a good place due to their heat generation.

ER small lasers were nerfed in advance - they never took off as the go-to clan weapon, but when they slapped ER Med lasers with 1 bonus heat they knew that everyone would dive to the ER smalls.

Perhaps the 1 heat on ER smalls was an overnerf- cut it by .5 and see how that works out.

Oh and I'm not against increasing the damage to 5 - seeing as in the last ... every match I have ever played, I've never seen a Clan mech using a small laser variant.

[Joseph Mallan]

DivineEvil, on 28 September 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

It's absolutely the same way with IS Small/Medium Lasers.
2 LS(IS) vs 1 ML(IS):
range 100m vs 270m = -63%
Crits 2 vs 1 = -50%
Tonnage 1 to 1 = 0%
Heat 4 vs 4 = 0%
Damage 6 vs 5 = +20%
So there's no valid point to making Clan ratio any better than IS. What makes the difference is duration and cooldown, with SLs having higher DPS.

Sounds like the perfect weapon for Sub 35 ton Mechs.

[DONTOR]

Gigastrike, on 28 September 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

They also have a shorter cooldown and duration. So the DPS from 2 ERSLs (2.46) is much higher than from 1 ERML (1.65), with a better heat/damage ratio as well.

but most clan mechs dont have many hardponts to fill up with alot of ERSLs, some do but even then they get affected by GH after 6 I believe. Not to mention with that shorter cool down and faster burn time the heat becomes more than 1 CERML, not less. CERSLs need a buff.

[ICEFANG13]

Have to have a real heat system before you can make real balance changes to multiple weapon heat values.

[FupDup]

Christof Romulus, on 29 September 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

If you guys don't like the way small lasers are - then don't use them.
---

I would be happier if I didn't need to explicitly avoid equipping certain weapons.

[Screech]

Yep, Clan ER Small Lasers remain the most nerfed clan weapon.

None of it would have been necessary had they just reverted IS small and mediums lasers to their original TT stats.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 29 September 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

I would be happier if I didn't need to explicitly avoid equipping certain weapons.

What you deem a necessity to avoid, others cannot deploy without. To me that's a pretty good balance. Unless its a hadrwired Omni Weapon I will never have a Flamer or MG on a Mech... Ever!

Yes I bought a Adder for my Clanner Alt!

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 September 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

What you deem a necessity to avoid, others cannot deploy without. To me that's a pretty good balance. Unless its a hadrwired Omni Weapon I will never have a Flamer or MG on a Mech... Ever!

Yes I bought a Adder for my Clanner Alt!

I suspect that the number of people who don't want to go without them is a lot lower than the number of people who "avoid" them. Almost triple range and nearly the same damage-per-heat ratio 1.167 for ERML and 1.33 for ERSL) is pretty darn significant.

Also, your Clanner Alt has my condolences. May your Badders die a peaceful death instead of the horrible and gruesome one that most others face.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 29 September 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

I suspect that the number of people who don't want to go without them is a lot lower than the number of people who "avoid" them. Almost triple range and nearly the same damage-per-heat ratio 1.167 for ERML and 1.33 for ERSL) is pretty darn significant.

Also, your Clanner Alt has my condolences. May your Badders die a peaceful death instead of the horrible and gruesome one that most others face.

It's a Light Mech in my hands. Of Course it will die most gruesomely!

[Mordin Ashe]

"Small lasers are in a good place" can only be said by someone who never used them. They are a joke. Not as a piece of equipment per se, but everyone who takes them to battle is a crowned jester. They make sence on paper, but in game they are never a good alternative. That is why PGI needs to find a new role for them. In practice at least one of the stats must be significantly improved for them to be viable.
I propose very short beam duration, almost instant and pinpoint for SPL. Lets say 0,3 beam duration for SL and 0,2 or 0,15 for SPL? That way they could be usefull at least for knife fighting lights and wouldn't make the weapon OP in any way while giving it a solid spot in the grand scheme of things.