130 replies to this topic

[NeoCodex]

For some reason I never had that issue while piloting a Dire, not to say even had a slight need of crying this out on the forums. Could be an error on your part, or just bad luck.

Edited by NeoCodex, 30 September 2014 - 04:20 AM.

[Moonlander]

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 30 September 2014 - 03:35 AM, said:

Got a few points on this misconcpetion of a lights job.

1) If your getting hit in the back your either too far behind the group and providing a good opertunity.

2) If you are are the back and getting harrassed the best thing you can do is spend as long as you can tanking it, the longer you tank it, the less harassing of other mechs they are doing. Remember its not all about kills/ damage, its about the team winning. Any good team will tell you that.

3) Theres no greater waste of a light than chasing another light. The amount of damage over time applied is minimal and are much better utilized in almost any other way. Unless your not in a fire fight. Noone should be helping you kill the light unless you have a dedicated antilight mech in your team. This is coming from myself who piloted an Ember in the majority of the drops in this past seasons RHoD (EU) which we, 'AS' won. <---- @antaresscorpions

Good luck killing that Spider in a Direwolf. Sure, I've done it. I've legged or headshot plenty of fast moving lights. I was just in River City Night when nightvision/thermal both decided to not work and I fired at a Commando, killing him... without even being able to see more than a red triangle. Some maps don't allow for this, especially when the environment has many levels. I think it's a huge waste of resources when you're left behind and a Jenner can SRM you to death before you can catch up to your team. It's for sure a matter of opportunity for them and I don't think it would hurt for the lights on the team to have some sort of awareness of where the other lights are on the field.

All this talk about teamwork, yet your "fend for yourself" opinion on helping a slow Assault ward off lights, kind of contradicts that. Regardless of your competitive achievements (which might I add, is a really cool story), I can't seem to grasp the fact that someone of your, obviously superior skill, can't take the time out to help a fellow teammate.

Not to mention, your experience as a paratrooper, I would assume you're military trained and I would also assume such training would of taught you to watch the backs of the other soldiers out in the field. I can't imagine the UK and US military's being that much different when it comes to values to follow. If you're unfamiliar, one of those is selfless service. In case you're not completely sure what the means, it's "Put the welfare of the nation, the Army, and your subordinates (to treat or regard as of lesser importance than something else.) before your own." Now, you've said several times that you get the most damage on your team and how you have so many kills... I know this isn't the military but you should really refrain from giving people tips on how to go about their game play when you, from what I gather, don't seem like much of a leader or team player.

I can tank the damage for quite a while, sure... but why couldn't a light (especially one of superior skill like yourself) be aware of their surroundings, spend 30sec to a minute of their time harassing it so it moves on? Isn't that teamwork? Is my 1400 damage not as important as yours?

Edited by Moonlander, 30 September 2014 - 04:22 AM.

[Preyzer]

i'v had both getting blocked from behind and cutoff in front i all most never get a match it don't happen so i just don't care any more if they block me from behind i don't care if i'm under fire i'll turn around and shoot that ass i don't care about kill steals but if they cut me off trying to do i don't care i'll just keep shooting if i kill them well to bad for them


" btw this never happens with lights just meds or bigger

Edited by Preyzer, 30 September 2014 - 04:33 AM.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

hahah I'm not even trying to take the kill, just get a red core and some crits. I'm trying to help the assault behind me take down this DW in Red River city...I'm standing next to the assault behind me. And I still catch a laser alpha in the back because the DW walks me into the line of fire. I just turn around at the assault, give him the "dude, really?" look with my Raven's head, and walk away...

[NeoCodex]

ArchMage Sparrowhawk, on 30 September 2014 - 04:24 AM, said:

hahah I'm not even trying to take the kill, just get a red core and some crits. I'm trying to help the assault behind me take down this DW in Red River city...I'm standing next to the assault behind me. And I still catch a laser alpha in the back because the DW walks me into the line of fire. I just turn around at the assault, give him the "dude, really?" look with my Raven's head, and walk away...

I'm getting a slight feeling that this side of the story is exactly what's happening in most of these "don't run in front of a DW shooting" threads.

[Willard Phule]

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 30 September 2014 - 01:07 AM, said:

As an paratrooper by trade. I like to think that none of my troops will run infront of me HOWEVER its still my job to make sure I do not have tunnel vision and have the situation awareness not to hit them if they do f*** up . Its not their job to dodge my bullets, its my job as the user of the weapon not to hit them. After the firefight is won I can punch them in the kidneys for being a d*** and be glad I didnt drop them with a bullet instead.

Keep in mind that what you are referring to is a learned behavior. You didn't just get the ability to watch your fire the moment they shaved your head. You went to basic, AIT, jump school and countless field problems/deployements to develop that.

Currently in MW:O, especially in the "no Elo" solo queue, there is NO training....there is only a learning curve. Most of the idiots that walk in front of their teammates are simply "chasing the dorito." They have no concept of where their teammates are, what they're firing at or what the enemy is most times (they don't bother to lock targets themselves).

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 30 September 2014 - 01:07 AM, said:

Same applies to assault mechs, stop being trigger happy all the time and thinking because your in a 100t mech your the most important. Odds are if you think your the best thing on the battlefield, your going to be the one complaining because the enemy lights killed you at the back.

I suppose that's one way of looking at it.

Here's another: I am the slowest thing on the battlefield. Think of me as an M1A1 Abrams tank. I bring way more firepower to the fight than the infantry does, however, I'm not as manuverable or as quick as they are. There's a reason infantrymen don't wander out in front of the tank...the tank isn't going to withhold firing it's main gun at an enemy tank because some private with an AT4 decided to set up shop directly in front of it.

Same goes here. I'm bringing a LOT of firepower to the fight. In a DW, odds are fairly good what I'm bringing is twice that of any IS Heavy or Assault, depending on the build. For me to have to stop shooting at the enemy because some target fixated Light pilot decided to park right in front of me is to trade a whole lot of Dakka for a couple of ERLLs. Not a good trade off and, besides, that Light pilot is never going to learn situational awareness until he gets backshot a few times.

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 30 September 2014 - 01:07 AM, said:

Remember this important fact. Light mechs are end game victors, if your light mechs are fairly fresh by the end, they will do the moping up so do them a favour and give them some compassion its hard working trying to apply dmg in the correct components and stay alive. So if they need to cut past you, cut them some slack and stop thinking your the most important mech.... Your not. #Teamwork

Sure. I'll buy that, I've seen it enough times to know there's some truth in that statement. But, those Light mechs that are "fairly fresh by the end" are the ones that avoid stepping out in front of their teammates. There's a HUGE difference between good Light pilots that know their role, their weapons ranges and how to most effectively use what they've got versus the "new players" just running in and out of their team's lanes of fire.

That applies to everyone, not just light pilots. Think about the LRM boats that wander around while zoomed in, tripping on the landscape, completely fixated on a single target and just wander in front of the Dual Gauss Jager....then whine about getting cored by a friendly. Not the shooter's fault, you walked in front of him.

Look, all I'm saying is that situational awareness is everyone's job, not just the guy doing the shooting. Since PGI has not developed any sort of tutorial or training system (except the "this is how we move forward" tutorial), the only way new players are going to learn is by trial and error. If you're more worried about shooting your friendlies than the enemy, then the new players are never going to learn that they can move and shoot at the same time, they don't have to stand still and show us their "leet sniper skills," and actually figure out how to be a part of a team.

[Killstorm999999]

HashtagComStarWasRight, on 29 September 2014 - 08:17 PM, said:

Difficult for you, maybe. But apparently not difficult for the multiple Dire Wolf pilots I drop with daily.

Like I said, you need to ork on your situational awareness and knowledge of your firing lanes. You should have noticed the Spider coming (even if he was obscured by buildings you can note his direction and speed on the radar/minimap) and have already been ready to stop firing if he crossed your lane.

Don't try to make it about the Spider pilot.

e: Was it you that started a similar thread the other day? I feel like this is the second 'grr people walk in front of me' DW thread I've read recently.

There is nothing that can be done. The lasers were already firing, and the direwolf is so unwieldy that it just cannot twist or pitch out of the way quickly.

Slower and larger mechs have the right of way. Its much easier for a light to reposition/not run into firing lanes.

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

Moonlander, on 30 September 2014 - 04:20 AM, said:

I can tank the damage for quite a while, sure... but why couldn't a light (especially one of superior skill like yourself) be aware of their surroundings, spend 30sec to a minute of their time harassing it so it moves on? Isn't that teamwork? Is my 1400 damage not as important as yours?

If im doing my job then I have not got time to come to you, your 1400 dmg is more than often in a direwolf spread across the whole of an enemy mech. what you achieve in 1400 is achieved by something like a GRF-3M in only 4-500.

What a lot of DW's like to do is cry their left behind and wonder why they are slaughtered. Generally they dont pick the quickest route, use thier s key way more than they should and dont generally think ahead (not everyone does). If a player is that incapable to look after themselve then I doubt their going to be much use to the fight anyway. Admitedly some maps, they do need the cover, crimson strait on skirmish is a good example, but once the fight has begun, the DW should be getting to the front. A lot of DW's are quite happy to hide near the back and then complain that people run in front of them, and a lot of inexperienced DW pilots use thier S key a lot more than their W key.

[Moonlander]

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 30 September 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

If im doing my job then I have not got time to come to you, your 1400 dmg is more than often in a direwolf spread across the whole of an enemy mech. what you achieve in 1400 is achieved by something like a GRF-3M in only 4-500.

What a lot of DW's like to do is cry their left behind and wonder why they are slaughtered. Generally they dont pick the quickest route, use thier s key way more than they should and dont generally think ahead (not everyone does). If a player is that incapable to look after themselve then I doubt their going to be much use to the fight anyway. Admitedly some maps, they do need the cover, crimson strait on skirmish is a good example, but once the fight has begun, the DW should be getting to the front. A lot of DW's are quite happy to hide near the back and then complain that people run in front of them, and a lot of inexperienced DW pilots use thier S key a lot more than their W key.

It's interesting how you ignored every other aspect of what I said. Nevertheless, no, my damage is properly placed and not spread about. I don't run a Dakka build and I have plenty of horrible and very good matches. I do take the quickest route (you should of seen that coming) and it's silly to think I would not fall pray to a 151kph Jenner who shoots across the saddle and straight to those going tunnel, or even the city for that matter. While I'm at a minimum of 10kph slower than everyone. Please give me one example of a better route to take in Crimson Strait, that would allow me to keep up with my group and not get seperated. Also, if possible, provide me with a quicker route for River City as well, that doesn't involve traversing varying degree's of difficult terrain that I will most likely get stuck on. If I am to stay with my group, I can't go 500m out of the way, otherwise I fall prey to said light mechs. I have to choose the shortest travel route with the most amount of cover.

I love how you went from "teamwork is all that matters" to "look after yourself" in a single thread. Do you know what a contradiction is?

[HashtagComStarWasRight]

NeoCodex, on 30 September 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

I'm getting a slight feeling that this side of the story is exactly what's happening in most of these "don't run in front of a DW shooting" threads.

Hard not to when every other Dire WOlf apologist in this thread is all 'if you walk in front of me oh well I'm not going to even try to slew my lazors away, eat it you killstealing lights".

Really comes across as angry people trying to justify their teamkilling.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

Battlecruiser, on 30 September 2014 - 01:14 AM, said:

that's like complaining a cruise ship hit your speedboat

actually, since the dire wolf is more like a dire whale, It got me thinking and reminded me of this.



>buy batboat
>park it in front of another, larger, but far slower boat
>THEY RAMMED US HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN
>no more batboat

Edited by Battlecruiser, 30 September 2014 - 07:59 AM.

[Turist0AT]

Light Mech pilot here. Some times i need to cross your firing line to escape a bad and potentially a life threatening situation esp in cqc enviroment. Im aware that ill resive damage and made sure i absorb your damage proporly. I apologize for incovenience but some times its either doing that or dieng.

But many pilots just dont considet firing lines. They could be new, they could be drunk or just dont care, who knows. It sucks but i hold my fire, no reason making it worse for your team.

[PilgrimX]

I want a TK forgiveness mechanic.

As a light pilot I know I'm going to sometimes catch a friendly shot and die... normally my fault/bad luck.

[decman117]

Bigger mech does not mean you have right of way. Yeah, if a light stops dead in front of you when you're firing, it's his fault. However, that is not always the case. Just as many times, the assault waddles behind the light, and continues firing. That is the assault's fault. Really, complaining about killstealing in a game that rewards assists more than kills is petty at the very least.

I will say, however, that when piloting lights or mediums, the most annoying thing to encounter is an assault sliding in behind you as you retreat. It happens so often- I can be shooting a target, and attempt to duck back when it turns around, only to have some slow assault wander up behind me and unload, leaving me nowhere to run, and the assault an extra hundred or so points of 'armor'. It doesn't take much thought to go "is there space for two mechs in that passage? nope? I'll wait for an opening."

[Livewyr]

Here is a pretty simple solution:

If *YOU* see a mech (not just Dire Wolf) engaging a target, avoid running in front of it if you can. (Cannot always avoid it, but you should make a concerted effort for your sake, their sake, and the team overall.)
If *YOU* are engaging someone, and a team mate ends up in your line of fire, stop your weapons, point currently firing lasers to the ground and wait for them to move. (If they are less aware and do not move on their own, move around them or ask them to move.)

Can this thread be over now?

[Mr E Figure]

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 30 September 2014 - 03:35 AM, said:

Got a few points on this misconcpetion of a lights job.

1) If your getting hit in the back your either too far behind the group and providing a good opertunity.

2) If you are are the back and getting harrassed the best thing you can do is spend as long as you can tanking it, the longer you tank it, the less harassing of other mechs they are doing. Remember its not all about kills/ damage, its about the team winning. Any good team will tell you that.

3) Theres no greater waste of a light than chasing another light. The amount of damage over time applied is minimal and are much better utilized in almost any other way. Unless your not in a fire fight. Noone should be helping you kill the light unless you have a dedicated antilight mech in your team. This is coming from myself who piloted an Ember in the majority of the drops in this past seasons RHoD (EU) which we, 'AS' won. <---- @antaresscorpions

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 30 September 2014 - 03:51 AM, said:

Pug life

Herein seems to lie the problem. I think there is a failure here to distinguish two very different situations. I don't play MWO competitively, nor will I ever(the reasons why have nothing to do with ability, and are another discussion altogether). However, I have a fair number of drops with pre-formed groups, and I can tell you that I do not see this problem when dropping with a group. For that matter, there is a laundry list of problems common in PUGs that I do not see when I play with groups.

Comparing PUG play to group play, especially at a competitive level, is comparing apples to oranges. Just because something works for advanced players does not mean it is in any way an appropriate strategy for those at a lower level. It is great that you can do 1k damage in a light, the extreme majority of people playing in solo queue cannot.

It is wonderful that you relay enemy information over voice, but most folks in solo queue are not using voice coms. Not to mention, as discussed in another thread, there are plenty of players in solo queue who do not even lock targets.

What you describe as misconceptions on appropriate utilization seems to stem from failing to realize that you are either:
a.) successfully using the members of a given class outside of their intended role
b.) using a unit with a given role in that role at an exceptional level

I think it is important to bear in mind that our current discussion is on the topic of people walking into their own teammate's line of fire.

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 30 September 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

If im doing my job then I have not got time to come to you, your 1400 dmg is more than often in a direwolf spread across the whole of an enemy mech. what you achieve in 1400 is achieved by something like a GRF-3M in only 4-500.

Again, see the thread previously cited. I should also note that by your own logic you have invalidated the value of that 1k damage you did in your light.

I also have a question for Arn0ldSchwarzenegger; how much time have you spent in a Direwolf? For the record, I've noticed the problem being discussed as a fairly new DW pilot. The extreme majority of my time has been spent in lights and mediums.

[HashtagComStarWasRight]

Mr E Figure, on 30 September 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

I think it is important to bear in mind that our current discussion is on the topic of people walking into their own teammate's line of fire.

I thought we were discussing direwolf pilots who had a problem with not shooting when a friendly passed in front of them.

[Belorion]

HashtagComStarWasRight, on 29 September 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

Note to Dire Wolf pilots... If someone else runs in front of you you need to stop firing/slew your lasers away so you don't kill your own teammates.

This... 1000 times this...

Learn to pull your fire off. I have death watched so many pilots sending a stream of damage down the line with absolutely no regard to what is in there way.

[Lyoto Machida]

What happens if a supertanker collides with a sailboat? Which one do you think can move out of the way of the other one easier? Sure, someone had the right of way in that scenario but does it matter to the sailboat at that point, even if he had the right of way?

HashtagComStarWasRight, on 29 September 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

Note to Dire Wolf pilots... If someone else runs in front of you you need to stop firing/slew your lasers away so you don't kill your own teammates.

Nah...how about not walking in front of the largest weapons platform in the game and then complaining when you take stray shots?

From driving DWs enough, I'm pretty damn careful when I'm not in one when I cross in front of a friendly one...if I can, I jump over his firing lane. If I get hit accidentally, I don't come to the forum and cry about it...cost of doing business.

Every other mech in the game is going to be more maneuverable in comparison to the DW...even an Atlas.

I rarely TK so this isn't really an issue for me but I crossing firing lanes all the time in this game with no regard for their positioning.

The mouth of the entrance to the caldera on Terra Therma is a great example...

Belorion, on 30 September 2014 - 08:52 PM, said:

This... 1000 times this...

Learn to pull your fire off. I have death watched so many pilots sending a stream of damage down the line with absolutely no regard to what is in there way.

I do that when I can but I'm not going to when there is no reaction time to do so. If you're blocking 2xPPC/Gauss or something with your ERPPC Spider, you're holding up a lot of firepower...especially if I was in position first.

[HashtagComStarWasRight]

Lyoto Machida, on 30 September 2014 - 09:42 PM, said:

From driving DWs enough, I'm pretty damn careful when I'm not in one when I cross in front of a friendly one...if I can, I jump over his firing lane. If I get hit accidentally, I don't come to the forum and cry about it...cost of doing business.

You seem to be confused. Nobody is 'crying about it' because they pilot a light and got in front of a dire wolf. A dire wolf pilot is crying that people actually expect him to stop firing if it would result in him shooting his teammates in the back.